Author Topic: We should start rebuilding  (Read 10076 times)

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Re: We should start rebuilding
« Reply #30 on: January 13, 2012, 01:15:05 PM »

Offline Tone

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yes we should start rebuilding Ray Allen has value where I think we could get a young guard back But I expect Danny to make a move at the trade deadline

Re: We should start rebuilding
« Reply #31 on: January 13, 2012, 01:20:08 PM »

Offline Chief

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We are in the process.  This is a transition-season.  We have tons of expiring contracts - just gotta wait it out

What is your realistic idea of what we could get with our cap space this summer?

My fear is that we use half of it to keep the band together. :'(

I think Eric Gordon is a very realistic opportunity for us.  New Orleans isn't going to want to pay him as they are between owners.  A Rondo-Gordon backcourt would be exciting for the next 7 years or so

I'm not sure. Eric Gordon seems to be the main piece they got for Chris Paul. I'd assume the next owner would want at least one all-star quality player to build around. But I've read he wants $18 million a year. So I guess he might be available, although I don't think he is worth that type of money.
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Re: We should start rebuilding
« Reply #32 on: January 13, 2012, 01:32:09 PM »

Offline TBreezy

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Hate to say it but the Lakers have a 9 million dollar exception.  That could become very valuable to facilitating trades down the stretch...

Re: We should start rebuilding
« Reply #33 on: January 13, 2012, 01:40:58 PM »

Offline StartOrien

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yes we should start rebuilding Ray Allen has value where I think we could get a young guard back But I expect Danny to make a move at the trade deadline

I can't think of someone who'd be in the position to want to acquire Ray Allen who has a young guard we could get back. Maybe a trade with Dallas that nets us Rodrigue Beubouis? I'm not sold on the kid, really, but that's the only thing I could think of.

Re: We should start rebuilding
« Reply #34 on: January 13, 2012, 01:44:01 PM »

Offline PosImpos

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KG, I just can't see it.  He makes so much money, and has become so mediocre that there are incredibly few scenarios where a trade could match up.  Basically, he would have to be traded for someone else who is paid like a star, and there are not many guys like that who are not either not going to be traded for a guy like KG, or a guy on a terrible contract that the C's would have no interest in.


If I wanted to "blow up" the team (and I don't), the scenario I would look for to trade KG would be a Baron Davis-like deal where you take on a bad multi-year contract from a bad team if they give you an unprotected lottery pick as compensation.

I suspect the Celtics might be better off with KG for next year in the $7-10 million range rather than trading him.

Eh, if this team can't even pretend to e competing for a championship next season (and I doubt that'll be the case), I have a hard time imagining KG deciding to keep playing through tremendous amounts of pain and weariness.  He doesn't need the money.
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Re: We should start rebuilding
« Reply #35 on: January 13, 2012, 01:45:10 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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You could certainly deal both Ray Allen and KG to contenders or near contenders. Ray can certainly still bring it and KG would most likely be a brilliant 6th man. I want to see them play the rookies and young players to see what we have.

Yes, I am advocating letting the season go. I do not see the benefit long term in barely making the playoffs and missing the lottery in a banner draft year.

What would a first or second round playoff loss do for us exactly?

I don't know what the playoffs will do for every fan, but for me it gives me another chance to see this very special team go out and compete for the highest stakes.  Regardless of the end result, I believe that what we have seen through the first nine game is far from the best ball we will see from this squad this season.  

If some really fanciful deal comes along that involves one of the ageing expiring contracts for a superstar or potential superstar player, then I guess you'd have to look at it.  I just don't see that as realistic, and I don't want to take on a huge, long contract for a mediocre player just to do something.  

We already have two fairly decent looking first round draft picks coming next year.  I'm not willing to tank a season for a chance to move up a half dozen spots in what's considered a very deep draft.  Alot has been made of Danny's not finding good talent through the draft lately.  He's due for a good one, and maybe he finds the next Rajon Rondo or Al Jefferson with one of his late to mid first rounders this year.  Maybe he moves up or down or makes a brilliant trade on draft day of one of those valuable assets.

The rebuild is coming anyway.  I just don't see that it makes sense to rush the process just for the sake of it.  I think he has a better chance of making some smart decisions looking forward this off-season than he does by blowing it up in a state of panic.
DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: We should start rebuilding
« Reply #36 on: January 13, 2012, 01:57:56 PM »

Offline BballTim

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  I think this trade doesn't help the team at all in the short run and will essentially be Rondo for Gortat, which isn't a good deal on any level. Nash adds an old, slower, less athletic player who's almost exclusively a jump shooter to the team. I don't read every post here but I don't recall too many saying that's what the team needs.

Re: We should start rebuilding
« Reply #37 on: January 13, 2012, 01:58:15 PM »

Offline birdwatcher

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This idea of 'The Celtics need to start rebuilding' is becoming obnoxious, and it's written by columnists who are desperate for easy material.

Of course, the Celtics should start rebuilding.This is common knowledge. The best way to rebuild is to clear the books, which is CLEARLY their intentions and that starts next year.

Past that, what should we do? How in the world are we going to move Kevin Garnett and his enormous contract? Do people think Pierce is cooked, and not just injured/out of shape? With Ray Allen in the last year of his contract, how much do people think we can get in return?

The truth is this team needs to stay the course, and we need to accept that. I still think this'll end up being a very enjoyable season, even if this team clearly isn't a legitimate contender anymore.
I don't think we need to make a trade for the sake of making a trade--if making a move brings us a piece we can use for down the road, whether in a player, prospect or draft pick then I'm sure Danny will do it. It just seems highly unlikely that:
 a) this team will miraculously "get into shape"
 b) improve enough to beat the best teams in the East with a simple roster move
 c) we make the playoffs
Everyone is talking about getting in with the 6-8 spots--this isn't the NFC West, we aren't getting in with a sub .500 record, which is a real possibility this season. If pretty much any player on this team gets injured, it would be very difficult to not to be on the outside looking in.
I'm not saying blow it up, but if the opportunity is there to improve the team for the future and not necessarily now, even if it includes our "core 4", then go right ahead, Danny!

Re: We should start rebuilding
« Reply #38 on: January 13, 2012, 02:11:08 PM »

Offline 18isGREATERthan72

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Honestly, I am a huge fan of this Big 3 ride...  However, you need to look at things realistically...  It's a pipe dream to think we'll come out of the East against the Heat, or the Bulls, and I worry about our chances against the Knicks, Magic, Hawks, and Pacers too.  You can talk about how we didn't have Pierce against the Knicks, and we barely lost, and with some better officiating could have even won, but using that argument is just clinging onto a weak argument...  The truth is, all of those teams listed, except maybe the Hawks and Magic, will most likely only get BETTER as the season progresses, and the Celtics will most likely REGRESS.

We've been saying for the last 3 years "if we're healthy."  The problem is, "if we're healthy" doesn't win championships.

I personally don't know what sort of moves we need to make, but I am fairly confident that moves DO need to be made.  Trade anyone and everyone.  Go for picks, and young talent.  Two players I would consider keeping would be Rondo, and Bass.  I would even consider trading Pierce.  Unfortunately, the only player who seems to be available that is the type of player that can change your fortunes is Dwight Howard.  If you need to give up Rondo and other assets to get him, I'd do it.  Then maybe try and go after Josh Smith, and with those two, do your best to tempt Deron Williams to Boston.  I know it's possible Rondo and Williams are comparable based on Williams production, but if you can get Dwight with Rondo and some other talent, then manage to pick up Deron and Josh Smith, you're looking at a solid 3 players to build around.

Dwight made it to the Finals once, and you can argue semantics about a "healthy Celtics squad" (it's crazy how much we fall back on that) but he still did it.  Josh Smith and Deron Williams would both be better than ANYONE that was on that Finals Magic team with Dwight.

Re: We should start rebuilding
« Reply #39 on: January 13, 2012, 03:44:09 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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I personally don't know what sort of moves we need to make, but I am fairly confident that moves DO need to be made.

Making a move for the sake of making a move can be worse than doing nothing.  Some of the trade ideas I've seen proposed seem to be along the lines of a Rashard Lewis for Gilbert Arenas level of desperation.
"The worst thing that ever happened in sports was sports radio, and the internet is sports radio on steroids with lower IQs.” -- Brian Burke, former Toronto Maple Leafs senior adviser, at the 2013 MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference

Re: We should start rebuilding
« Reply #40 on: January 13, 2012, 04:10:39 PM »

Offline Q_FBE

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I still believe we can compete this year - at least until the 2nd round of the playoffs. Anything beyond that is a pipe dream. And Tebow has a better chance at being Super Bowl XLVI MVP than the Celtics becoming 2012 NBA World Champions at this point.

I think the rebuilding process has already started with the trade of Kendrick Perkins which I still think is a miss-step by Danny Ainge.

We could have 50 million dollars of cap room but if we spend it on Selfish Pigs and Prima Donnas that could set the rebuilding program back for years. Do you honestly believe that Dwight Howard and Chris Paul would seek us out at the end of the season to team up with an aging Paul Pierce and bench scrubs? I think we are looking at building up through the draft and trading for 2nd tier star players that are under contract and looking for new situations or want to be coached by Doc Rivers. I can't really speculate on who will be on next years team at this time.
The beatings will continue until morale improves

Re: We should start rebuilding
« Reply #41 on: January 13, 2012, 04:13:33 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Dumping Perk was the first step , knew it was comming,  it signaled the beginning of the end.

Casey Jones...The engine has run out of steam.....time to dump the rest and begin again.

Re: We should start rebuilding
« Reply #42 on: January 13, 2012, 04:18:17 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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Dumping Perk was the first step , knew it was comming,  it signaled the beginning of the end.

Casey Jones...The engine has run out of steam.....time to dump the rest and begin again.

Yeah, just dump them.  Why even worry about how we think about the rebuilding process or who we get back.  Just cut everyone and replace them with D leaguers.  Then we can get a high draft pick and start from scratch next year.

It doesn't really matter how long it takes to get back to the top.  At least, we won't have to face the possibility of being disappointed ever again.  That's easier to deal with. 
DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: We should start rebuilding
« Reply #43 on: January 13, 2012, 04:58:59 PM »

Offline csfansince60s

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yes we should start rebuilding Ray Allen has value where I think we could get a young guard back But I expect Danny to make a move at the trade deadline

I can't think of someone who'd be in the position to want to acquire Ray Allen who has a young guard we could get back. Maybe a trade with Dallas that nets us Rodrigue Beubouis? I'm not sold on the kid, really, but that's the only thing I could think of.

Mayo has been discussed with other teams. How about some deal with memphis involving those two.

How about something on the lines of Rondo, Ray and JO and one of our firsts for Gay, Mayo and Conley?

http://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/5983200

Re: We should start rebuilding
« Reply #44 on: January 13, 2012, 05:02:40 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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I say give them two more weeks.  What we seen up to now would be a regular preseason.  If it is bad then start the rebuild.