trade / cap question

[arctic 3.0]

so its pretty obvious we need to get better on the boards (among other things) or the last run of the big 3 will fall depressingly short.
i
f danny does see potential for a deep play off run with a few tweaks he could look into acquiring anderson varajeo (energy, hustle, rebounding) from the cav's for jo's expiring.

my question is, how much would AV's contract effect our flexibility this off season? If he would jeopardize our ability to sign a player to the max (howard pretty, pretty please) then i'd veto the deal. if his deal leaves us room for a max and little else then i'd make a strong push to bring him in. he has the skills to make this last dance a long one and is better than most second tier free agents we could bring in along side  a max guy... (or as consolation if we loose out on howard)

[pearljammer10]

Why would the Cavs trade their best big man who is young and athletic for an expiring contract of a potential retiree?

[Chris]

I wouldn't worry about his contract affecting our flexbility.  Yes, he would eat into the potential cap space, however, with guys like Howard and Paul most likely going elsewhere, that is less crucial.  And while Varajao eats into cap space, he is still relatively young, and he is very fairly paid for the production he gives you at a premium position, and you would likely have to pay a lot more for comparable production on the open market.

The problem is, Cleveland knows this too.  They have very little reason to trade him unless they are getting a lot back in return.  They already have a ton of cap space next summer, and they won't convince anyone as good as Andy to come to Cleveland for less than the $8m he is owed next season.  

While I would love him, I just don't see why Cleveland would trade him unless we blow them out of the water with an offer.

[Who]

The Celtics two first rounds pick this summer and if necessary that early Cavs second rounder from the Erden trade too.

If Cleveland would accept that, I say make the trade.

[Chris]

The Celtics two first rounds pick this summer and if necessary that early Cavs second rounder from the Erden trade too.

If Cleveland would accept that, I say make the trade.

Yup, that is the type of offer it would take to even get them to answer the phone.  

The problem is, at that point is it worth it?  I go back and forth.

edit: I would also make a similar offer for Millsap.  He's not a center, but brings more offense, and is a monster on the boards.  And I actually think the Jazz have more reason to move him than the Cavs have to move Andy.  They would prefer to lose Jefferson, but if they can get much more value for Millsap, they might move him instead.

[arctic 3.0]

I wouldn't worry about his contract affecting our flexbility.  Yes, he would eat into the potential cap space, however, with guys like Howard and Paul most likely going elsewhere, that is less crucial.  And while Varajao eats into cap space, he is still relatively young, and he is very fairly paid for the production he gives you at a premium position, and you would likely have to pay a lot more for comparable production on the open market.

The problem is, Cleveland knows this too.  They have very little reason to trade him unless they are getting a lot back in return.  They already have a ton of cap space next summer, and they won't convince anyone as good as Andy to come to Cleveland for less than the $8m he is owed next season.  

While I would love him, I just don't see why Cleveland would trade him unless we blow them out of the water with an offer.

is AV enough to get us into the mix for a championship?
if yes then add a 1st rounder to the offer...
championship contending teams are hard to come by.

[Chris]

I wouldn't worry about his contract affecting our flexbility.  Yes, he would eat into the potential cap space, however, with guys like Howard and Paul most likely going elsewhere, that is less crucial.  And while Varajao eats into cap space, he is still relatively young, and he is very fairly paid for the production he gives you at a premium position, and you would likely have to pay a lot more for comparable production on the open market.

The problem is, Cleveland knows this too.  They have very little reason to trade him unless they are getting a lot back in return.  They already have a ton of cap space next summer, and they won't convince anyone as good as Andy to come to Cleveland for less than the $8m he is owed next season.  

While I would love him, I just don't see why Cleveland would trade him unless we blow them out of the water with an offer.

is AV enough to get us into the mix for a championship?
if yes then add a 1st rounder to the offer...
championship contending teams are hard to come by.

Personally, I lean towards no.  I am afraid the Big 3 can no longer carry us offensively, and we need another impact scorer to have a realistic chance.  But I think he would put us further up on the "if Wade gets injured, they could steal this" list.

[arctic 3.0]

Why would the Cavs trade their best big man who is young and athletic for an expiring contract of a potential retiree?

JO's contract is for matching purposes. sorry, i should have been clear on that.
if danny thinks  av can get us into the mix then he has to weigh how much, in terms of picks, he is willing to part with for one more run.

[greenpride32]

The sad reality is we have no assets to acquire a guy of AV's status.  And nevermind a guy like Millsap who would command even more.  Rondo is our only trade chip and he's not exactly in high demand around the league.

[Who]

The Celtics two first rounds pick this summer and if necessary that early Cavs second rounder from the Erden trade too.

If Cleveland would accept that, I say make the trade.

Yup, that is the type of offer it would take to even get them to answer the phone.  

The problem is, at that point is it worth it?  I go back and forth.

edit: I would also make a similar offer for Millsap.  He's not a center, but brings more offense, and is a monster on the boards.  And I actually think the Jazz have more reason to move him than the Cavs have to move Andy.  They would prefer to lose Jefferson, but if they can get much more value for Millsap, they might move him instead.

Actually, yeah, I may need to re-think that and whether it's worth parting with the two first rounders.

I was perfectly willing to do so when the C's expected pick was somewhere around 20 and the Clippers pick somewhere close to that.

But if the C's drop down to the 7th/8th seed and have a pick at around #15 ... that would be quite a valuable asset to part ways with. The C's could get someone very useful to their rebuilding efforts with that pick and on a rookie scale contract at that.

No longer sure I make that deal. Need to think some more on it.

[Who]

Bah humbug, it ate my post. Okay, start again.

$16.79 million - Pierce
$11.00 million - Rondo
$8.37 million  - Varejao
$1.63 million  - Bradley
$1.12 million  - JJ Johnson
$3.5 million   - cap holds at $500k for 7 empty roster spots

Total = $42.41 million (assuming Bass opts out)

The Celtics could trim another $1.75 million off that payroll by trading Bradley and Johnson to a team below the cap (with two empty roster spot cap holds replacing them).

If the cap is around $60 million, that should give them enough space to offer a max contract to a Dwight Howard type player.

[snively]

Bah humbug, it ate my post. Okay, start again.

$16.79 million - Pierce
$11.00 million - Rondo
$8.37 million  - Varejao
$1.63 million  - Bradley
$1.12 million  - JJ Johnson
$3.5 million   - cap holds at $500k for 7 empty roster spots

Total = $42.41 million (assuming Bass opts out)

The Celtics could trim another $1.75 million off that payroll by trading Bradley and Johnson to a team below the cap (with two empty roster spot cap holds replacing them).

If the cap is around $60 million, that should give them enough space to offer a max contract to a Dwight Howard type player.

Or they could keep Bradley and JJ and split the $18 mil on 3 quality players.  Sign JR Smith and AK-47 for multi-year deals starting for a combined $13 mil.  Used the remainder to bring back Ray and KG for a swan song. 

[arctic 3.0]

Bah humbug, it ate my post. Okay, start again.

$16.79 million - Pierce
$11.00 million - Rondo
$8.37 million  - Varejao
$1.63 million  - Bradley
$1.12 million  - JJ Johnson
$3.5 million   - cap holds at $500k for 7 empty roster spots

Total = $42.41 million (assuming Bass opts out)

The Celtics could trim another $1.75 million off that payroll by trading Bradley and Johnson to a team below the cap (with two empty roster spot cap holds replacing them).

If the cap is around $60 million, that should give them enough space to offer a max contract to a Dwight Howard type player.

tp for the break down.