Doc's stubborness

[MBunge]

It's gotten overlooked because of the ubuntu of the first year and the way they snapped back to form in the playoffs 2 years ago, but this Celtic teams has had a surprisingly large amount of chemistry problems.  I think the main reason for that is that this is an extremely stubborn team from Doc on down and when things aren't going well, they don't adapt or adjust to try and overcome it.  They just keep doing what they're doing and hope to eventually ram through whatever brick wall is in their way.

When it comes to Doc's stubborness, a lot of folks would probably point to his continual playing of Bradley over Moore.  I actually like Bradley and I don't think Moore would be any sort of cureall, but I don't believe there's another coach in the league who wouldn't have at least given Moore a shot with how awful Bradley has looked at times this year.

I think Doc's stubborness is most evident, however, in the way he's fallen in love with using KG and Bass together on the court.  In the last game, Dallas played their two sub-mediocre centers a combined 47 minutes while Doc played Boston's 3 centers a combined 28 minutes.  Now, 22 minutes might be just right for JO, but given the matchups last night and how Boston was getting KILLED on the glass, what possible reason was there for only playing Wilcox and the Steamer 6 total minutes?  And why would you equally split those minutes between them, given how Wilcox has played and how Steamer has played?  KG needs to play alonside a traditional center.  Bass, much like Baby before him, needs to play alongside a traditional center.  If playing KG or Bass created some huge mismatch on the offensive end and the team was taking advantage of it, that's one thing.  But to not recognize that KG's lack of mass and Bass's below average rebounding is a big problem when they play against the other team's center is just stubborn.

Mike

[kozlodoev]

I wish we had a "mediocre" center like Haywood on the roster. Regretfully, all three of our "centers" (and Wilcox is not even really a center) are considerably worse players.

[Chris]

Why has he been stubborn?  I think he has actually been much less stubborn than in the past.  He has given Bradley a ton of leyway, when he could have gone with a veteran like Sasha.  And he has given Stiemsma a ton of minutes for a guy who has one NBA skill. 

And Bass has been playing plenty of minutes.  He is a player that is best used in spurts, and Doc has kept him there.

Really, I have had no problem with Docs usage of players.  I just wish guys like Pierce had spent more time on the treadmill during the offseason, rather than trying to rally the players union to decertify and cancel the season.

[Celtics4ever]

Oldbuntu ought to be it the way he sticks to his starters so much for five five five honoring Herman Cain.

[clover]

It's gotten overlooked because of the ubuntu of the first year and the way they snapped back to form in the playoffs 2 years ago, but this Celtic teams has had a surprisingly large amount of chemistry problems.  I think the main reason for that is that this is an extremely stubborn team from Doc on down and when things aren't going well, they don't adapt or adjust to try and overcome it.  They just keep doing what they're doing and hope to eventually ram through whatever brick wall is in their way.

When it comes to Doc's stubborness, a lot of folks would probably point to his continual playing of Bradley over Moore.  I actually like Bradley and I don't think Moore would be any sort of cureall, but I don't believe there's another coach in the league who wouldn't have at least given Moore a shot with how awful Bradley has looked at times this year.

I think Doc's stubborness is most evident, however, in the way he's fallen in love with using KG and Bass together on the court.  In the last game, Dallas played their two sub-mediocre centers a combined 47 minutes while Doc played Boston's 3 centers a combined 28 minutes.  Now, 22 minutes might be just right for JO, but given the matchups last night and how Boston was getting KILLED on the glass, what possible reason was there for only playing Wilcox and the Steamer 6 total minutes?  And why would you equally split those minutes between them, given how Wilcox has played and how Steamer has played?  KG needs to play alonside a traditional center.  Bass, much like Baby before him, needs to play alongside a traditional center.  If playing KG or Bass created some huge mismatch on the offensive end and the team was taking advantage of it, that's one thing.  But to not recognize that KG's lack of mass and Bass's below average rebounding is a big problem when they play against the other team's center is just stubborn.

Mike

I agree.  Stiemer gets defensive 2 rebounds in 2 minutes, Doc sits him for the rest of the game--and then complains that the lack of defensive rebounds is killing the team.

What were he and Danny doing trying to force an overmatched and underskilled AB into the PG position for the entire last year?  The Israeli team figured out he was a 2 guard right away.

[Jeff]

I like how Doc stubbornly likes to play players that are better than other available players

[Celtics18]

It's gotten overlooked because of the ubuntu of the first year and the way they snapped back to form in the playoffs 2 years ago, but this Celtic teams has had a surprisingly large amount of chemistry problems.  I think the main reason for that is that this is an extremely stubborn team from Doc on down and when things aren't going well, they don't adapt or adjust to try and overcome it.  They just keep doing what they're doing and hope to eventually ram through whatever brick wall is in their way.

When it comes to Doc's stubborness, a lot of folks would probably point to his continual playing of Bradley over Moore.  I actually like Bradley and I don't think Moore would be any sort of cureall, but I don't believe there's another coach in the league who wouldn't have at least given Moore a shot with how awful Bradley has looked at times this year.

I think Doc's stubborness is most evident, however, in the way he's fallen in love with using KG and Bass together on the court.  In the last game, Dallas played their two sub-mediocre centers a combined 47 minutes while Doc played Boston's 3 centers a combined 28 minutes.  Now, 22 minutes might be just right for JO, but given the matchups last night and how Boston was getting KILLED on the glass, what possible reason was there for only playing Wilcox and the Steamer 6 total minutes?  And why would you equally split those minutes between them, given how Wilcox has played and how Steamer has played?  KG needs to play alonside a traditional center.  Bass, much like Baby before him, needs to play alongside a traditional center.  If playing KG or Bass created some huge mismatch on the offensive end and the team was taking advantage of it, that's one thing.  But to not recognize that KG's lack of mass and Bass's below average rebounding is a big problem when they play against the other team's center is just stubborn.

Mike

I appreciate you not agreeing with Doc's substitution pattern in last night's game, but it hardly qualifies as stubborn.

Over the previous 8 games, our 3 "centers" played an average of 36 combined minutes per contest.  Doc actually switched it up and went smaller last night, playing KG more at center than he has been doing to start the season.

Disagree all you want with the effectiveness of his choice, but it hardly shows a reluctance to change things up on Doc's part.

[vinnie]

I wish we had a "mediocre" center like Haywood on the roster. Regretfully, all three of our "centers" (and Wilcox is not even really a center) are considerably worse players.

This is the correct answer. This is a pitiful group of centers on the Celtics. Together they don't constitute a solid NBA-level center.

[kgiessler]

And he has given Stiemsma a ton of minutes for a guy who has one NBA skill. 

I really think you are selling the guy short here.

He's shown that he can block shots well.
He's shown that he can hit jumpers well.
He's shown that he can get rebounds well.
He's shown that he rotates and generally plays defense well.

[Chief]

I like how Doc stubbornly likes to play players that are better than other available players

I just wish he did not feel the need to start all the better players. Jason Terry is much better than Vinsanity, yet he comes off the bench. If Ray or Pierce were ever willing to come off the bench, this team would be much better.

[Chris]

And he has given Stiemsma a ton of minutes for a guy who has one NBA skill.  

I really think you are selling the guy short here.

He's shown that he can block shots well.
He's shown that he can hit jumpers well.
He's shown that he can get rebounds well.
He's shown that he rotates and generally plays defense well.

I would say the he has shown he can block shots well.  The jumpers have been too small a sample size.  The rebounds have not been good, and the defense has been spotty.

Other than the shot blocking, he also brings energy, which has absolutely helped this team.  But lets not go overboard.

[kgiessler]

And he has given Stiemsma a ton of minutes for a guy who has one NBA skill. 

I really think you are selling the guy short here.

He's shown that he can block shots well.
He's shown that he can hit jumpers well.
He's shown that he can get rebounds well.
He's shown that he rotates and generally plays defense well.

I would say the he has shown he can block shots well.  The jumpers have been too small a sample size.  The rebounds have not been good, and the defense has been spotty.

Other than the shot blocking, he also brings energy, which has absolutely helped this team.  But lets not go overboard.

I'm pretty sure he's got the highest rebounding rate on the team.

82games has him as taking 64% jump shots, his eFG on them is .556 and his overall FG% is .571.

[Capricious]

Yea, steamer averages nearly 10 rebounds per 36m, 2bpg, and is shooting at 57%.  I think that's worth more than 3 minutes of court time considering the alternatives.

[Chris]

And he has given Stiemsma a ton of minutes for a guy who has one NBA skill. 

I really think you are selling the guy short here.

He's shown that he can block shots well.
He's shown that he can hit jumpers well.
He's shown that he can get rebounds well.
He's shown that he rotates and generally plays defense well.

I would say the he has shown he can block shots well.  The jumpers have been too small a sample size.  The rebounds have not been good, and the defense has been spotty.

Other than the shot blocking, he also brings energy, which has absolutely helped this team.  But lets not go overboard.

I'm pretty sure he's got the highest rebounding rate on the team.

82games has him as taking 64% jump shots, his eFG on them is .556 and his overall FG% is .571.

Small sample size stats are fun...

[kgiessler]

And he has given Stiemsma a ton of minutes for a guy who has one NBA skill.  

I really think you are selling the guy short here.

He's shown that he can block shots well.
He's shown that he can hit jumpers well.
He's shown that he can get rebounds well.
He's shown that he rotates and generally plays defense well.

I would say the he has shown he can block shots well.  The jumpers have been too small a sample size.  The rebounds have not been good, and the defense has been spotty.

Other than the shot blocking, he also brings energy, which has absolutely helped this team.  But lets not go overboard.

I'm pretty sure he's got the highest rebounding rate on the team.

82games has him as taking 64% jump shots, his eFG on them is .556 and his overall FG% is .571.

Small sample size stats are fun...

I guess that's the point of what people are saying. They are looking for a larger sample size when the small sample shows something good.  Earlier in this thread you described it as a ton of minutes, I think most others are considering it small.