what's the deal with Chris Wilcox?

[Inside-Out]

I think he has done enough to not be buried on the bench, but I don't think its unreasonable for Doc to give another guy a chance.

THEN WHY PLAY THAT OTHER GUY ONLY 3 MINUTES?!?!

Mike

Mahimi or whatever his name is was smoking him.  Running circles around him, straight to the boards.  Steims didn't deserve to be on the court last night.

[CelticHooligan3]

To me Wilcox looks like he was on the Sweetney diet plan this offseason. I usually love Danny's moves but to me its pretty obvious the guy is out of shape. Why he would pick him up is beyond me.

Id play a guy whos far less talented and established who wants it more, like a Stiemsma over the vet who came in to camp out of shape and acts as if his spot is a right and not something earned.

[Chris]

I think Doc is a fan of guys earning their playing time, and Stiemsma has. 

Then why did Stiemsma play all of 3 minutes against Dallas, especially when they had one of their centers on the court for 47 out of 48 minutes?

Mike

Because Wilcox also had some good practices, and earned some time?

Steimsma hasn't earned the right to be a 6th man, but he has earned the right to still compete for his minutes.

Do we want to start the whole "Doc hates rookies" stuff again?  There is NO WAY that Wilcox has done anything in practice that matches what Steimsma has done during games.  And if Wilcox HAS practiced strong, why only play him 3 minutes in a game where you're getting killing on the boards?

Mike

I think Doc is conflicted as to which guy to play.  He wants to get Wilcox into rhythm because he knows he can contribute down the line, but he's intrigued by Stiemsma and wants to keep involved. 

As of yet, neither are contributing consistently enough to move him to cut into KG/Bass/JO's minutes. 

That we've struggled so much offensively and had to recover from big deficits has prompted him to lean heavily on the floor-spacing Bass/KG frontcourt.  That's kept him from prolonged experimentation with other potential frontcourts; something he was more willing to do against the lesser teams.

Yes, this is well said.  I absolutely think a lot of this has to do with preparing both guys...because they are going to need both of them.  Injuries are going to happen, and both Stiemsma and Wilcox are both going to need to play.  Considering there was so little training camp, and so few practices, Doc is going to need to do things like that to make sure they both get some run. 

Now, if one of them steps up and grabs the job, then it would be one thing, but neither has done that. 

[jpd985]

I think he has done enough to not be buried on the bench, but I don't think its unreasonable for Doc to give another guy a chance.

THEN WHY PLAY THAT OTHER GUY ONLY 3 MINUTES?!?!

Mike

Mahimi or whatever his name is was smoking him.  Running circles around him, straight to the boards.  Steims didn't deserve to be on the court last night.

Mahimni did that to all of our bigs. With only playing 3 minutes he didn't contribute to the 17 2nd chance points the team gave up.

[vinnie]

Wilcox is a journeyman center/PF who has never done much in this league. The last two years, there were many games he never got off the bench for the woeful Pistons. We are getting the real Chris Wilcox. Sorry, he just isn't that good.

[snively]

Wilcox is a journeyman center/PF who has never done much in this league. The last two years, there were many games he never got off the bench for the woeful Pistons. We are getting the real Chris Wilcox. Sorry, he just isn't that good.

It's true that Wilcox is a journeyman.  It's not true that we're getting the "real" Wilcox.

Wilcox's career per 36 averages (which he mimicked almost identically last year in Detroit) are 15 pts and 9 boards on .560 TS%.  Thus far this year we're getting 5 pts and 9 boards on .400 TS%.

The big difference is FGAs.  He's gotten them everywhere else he's played (career average of 12 per 36).  Here he's getting 5. 

Our bench guards cannot get their bigs the ball, especially a pick and roll, post-up big like Wilcox. 

[rickyfan3.0...]

I think a lot of is that he just has never been good. Ever.

[the_Bird]

Wilcox is a journeyman center/PF who has never done much in this league. The last two years, there were many games he never got off the bench for the woeful Pistons. We are getting the real Chris Wilcox. Sorry, he just isn't that good.

It's true that Wilcox is a journeyman.  It's not true that we're getting the "real" Wilcox.

Wilcox's career per 36 averages (which he mimicked almost identically last year in Detroit) are 15 pts and 9 boards on .560 TS%.  Thus far this year we're getting 5 pts and 9 boards on .400 TS%.

The big difference is FGAs.  He's gotten them everywhere else he's played (career average of 12 per 36).  Here he's getting 5. 

Our bench guards cannot get their bigs the ball, especially a pick and roll, post-up big like Wilcox. 

I think it's fair to say that Wilcox isn't (and never had been) very good, AND our bench guards aren't very good at setting anybody up.  It's not an either/or situation; it's both.

[Celts Fan 92]

the deal is we wasted $3.5 mil on him he looked outta shape and clueless on both sides of the ball

[kgiessler]

Mahimi or whatever his name is was smoking him.  Running circles around him, straight to the boards.  Steims didn't deserve to be on the court last night.

http://popcornmachine.net/cgi-bin/gameflow.cgi?date=20120111&game=DALBOS

In the time that Mahinmi and Steimsma were on the court together last night, Mahinmi got one rebound, Steimsma two.

[clover]

I think Doc is a fan of guys earning their playing time, and Stiemsma has.  

Then why did Stiemsma play all of 3 minutes against Dallas, especially when they had one of their centers on the court for 47 out of 48 minutes?

Mike

Because Wilcox also had some good practices, and earned some time?

Steimsma hasn't earned the right to be a 6th man, but he has earned the right to still compete for his minutes.

Do we want to start the whole "Doc hates rookies" stuff again?  There is NO WAY that Wilcox has done anything in practice that matches what Steimsma has done during games.  And if Wilcox HAS practiced strong, why only play him 3 minutes in a game where you're getting killing on the boards?

Mike

How do you know?  

For the record, Wilcox was very good in the open practice earlier this year.  So, I don't think it is unbelievable that he would be good in other practices.

And Steimsma hasn't been that great.  He has blocked shots (and not nearly as much lately), and hit a couple open jumpers, but otherwise, not been great.  His rebounding has left a lot to be desired, his man to man defense has not been great, and he has no footwork around the basket.

I think he has done enough to not be buried on the bench, but I don't think its unreasonable for Doc to give another guy a chance.

What are you talking about? Stiemer's averaged over 12.8 rebounds per 48 minutes.  That rate puts him in with the top 35 in the league.

That also puts him, tied with Wilcox, ahead of every other Celtic, including KG, who trails with 11.3 per 48.

[kozlodoev]

Despite the fact that every time Steimsma has been on the court, he's given us more than both JO and Wilcox have combined.

Yeah, that's kind of an overstatement.

[Chris]

I think Doc is a fan of guys earning their playing time, and Stiemsma has.  

Then why did Stiemsma play all of 3 minutes against Dallas, especially when they had one of their centers on the court for 47 out of 48 minutes?

Mike

Because Wilcox also had some good practices, and earned some time?

Steimsma hasn't earned the right to be a 6th man, but he has earned the right to still compete for his minutes.

Do we want to start the whole "Doc hates rookies" stuff again?  There is NO WAY that Wilcox has done anything in practice that matches what Steimsma has done during games.  And if Wilcox HAS practiced strong, why only play him 3 minutes in a game where you're getting killing on the boards?

Mike

How do you know?  

For the record, Wilcox was very good in the open practice earlier this year.  So, I don't think it is unbelievable that he would be good in other practices.

And Steimsma hasn't been that great.  He has blocked shots (and not nearly as much lately), and hit a couple open jumpers, but otherwise, not been great.  His rebounding has left a lot to be desired, his man to man defense has not been great, and he has no footwork around the basket.

I think he has done enough to not be buried on the bench, but I don't think its unreasonable for Doc to give another guy a chance.

What are you talking about? Stiemer's averaged over 12.8 rebounds per 48 minutes.  That rate puts him in with the top 35 in the league.

That also puts him, tied with Wilcox, ahead of every other Celtic, including KG, who trails with 11.3 per 48.

Like I said in another thread, stats with small samples sizes are fun...

He has consistently failed to box guys out, and has not done a good job of attacking the boards.  He has often been out of position, going for blocks that aren't necessarily within the system.

Now, he hasn't been a worse rebounder than KG and JO, but thats not saying much.  Being marginally better than a terrible rebounder is not enough to put that in the positive column IMO, given his other deficiencies.

[Tone]

wilcox just is out of shape and isnt to me a good fit on this team

[aries31]

i have an under the radar trade that should work perfectly for the celtics....trade jajuan johnson (unfortunately), e. moore, and chris wilcox to cleveland for anderson varejao. you can start varejao and have o'neal come off the bench, your starting line-up would be rondo,allen,pierce,kg,varejao which is killer..they would run the floor way better and kg would have someone who is actually capable and healthy enough to help with the defensive schemes and someone else who gets under everyones skin. it's a perfect fit. then the bench would be dooling,peitrus,daniels,bass, and o'neal...perfect starting line-up and perfect reserve rotation.