Rubio > Rondo, right?

[Celtics18]

You say that you understand this, and I'm sure you do, but based on your posts in this thread, it's also very clear to me that you severely undervalue these aspects of playing winning basketball.

Well, however valuable they may be, Rondo's contributions in those areas haven't made the Celtics a good fourth quarter team for the past couple of years.

As the posts that follow this one indicate, it's difficult to concretely illustrate how good we have or have not been in previous years relative to other top teams in the league in fourth quarters.

If you have some definitive numbers on fourth quarter efficiencies over the last couple of seasons, please share. 

All I can is this -- have you watch this team play at all in the 4th quarter in the last 3 seasons?  If yes, have you forgotten all of the double digit leads given up, all of the offensive dry-spells, etc.  Remember Game 7 in the Finals?  I'm sure that you do.


I don't have statistics for you.  However, here's what Danny Ainge had to say on it:

"I think there's two things that sort of stand out. I'm not taking a nine-game sample. I'm looking at what has been our pattern, and what has been our weakness, over the last three years with this group of guys," said Ainge. "For three years now, we have been the worst offensive rebounding team in basketball. The second thing is, the execution of our offense, our offensive efficiency in the last five minutes of the game, I think those two things have got to be improved. I don't necessarily know why that hasn't happened. It's not just personnel, because we've had a lot of good offensive rebounders on this team."

I would love to see this team consistently score at will down the stretch in big games.  As with anything, though, you have to put these things into context.

I look around the league and see what's happened to the Chicago Bulls, the Miami Heat, and the OKC Thunder, among others, in some big gams, and I see teams that have struggled to score or look efficient on the offensive end when big games get tight.

That's how this league is; Defenses toughen up, games slow down, and shots become harder to make.  It's not just true for the Celtics.  It's true for most teams, even other top ones.  Also, of course, most games are not won or lost in the last five minutes, but over a 48 minute span.

[StartOrien]

I would love to see this team consistently score at will down the stretch in big games.  As with anything, though, you have to put these things into context.

I look around the league and see what's happened to the Chicago Bulls, the Miami Heat, and the OKC Thunder, among others, in some big gams, and I see teams that have struggled to score or look efficient on the offensive end when big games get tight.

That's how this league is; Defenses toughen up, games slow down, and shots become harder to make.  It's not just true for the Celtics.  It's true for most teams, even other top ones.  Also, of course, most games are not won or lost in the last five minutes, but over a 48 minute

I agree with this, but I question how much of this is player's getting into habits and coaches excepting the norm.

None of these teams ever seem to try to force the issue in the clutch. It's as if they accept that in 'the clutch' that you've got to slow the game down into half court sets. 

[PosImpos]

I would love to see this team consistently score at will down the stretch in big games.  As with anything, though, you have to put these things into context.

I look around the league and see what's happened to the Chicago Bulls, the Miami Heat, and the OKC Thunder, among others, in some big gams, and I see teams that have struggled to score or look efficient on the offensive end when big games get tight.

That's how this league is; Defenses toughen up, games slow down, and shots become harder to make.  It's not just true for the Celtics.  It's true for most teams, even other top ones.  Also, of course, most games are not won or lost in the last five minutes, but over a 48 minute

I agree with this, but I question how much of this is player's getting into habits and coaches excepting the norm.

None of these teams ever seem to try to force the issue in the clutch. It's as if they accept that in 'the clutch' that you've got to slow the game down into half court sets. 

Yeah.  Hero ball is a league-wide problem.  Teams go away from the offensive execution that kept the game close for 3 and a half quarters.

It just so happens that a lot of the teams that Celtic18 mentioned have great isolation scorers.  The Celtics don't.  In the past, they've gotten by because they have great jumpshooters.  Now that those shooters are old, they tend to be tired late in games, and their shots fall of the mark (check out how many of our late game shots front-rim, a sure sign of tired legs).

[Eja117]

I don't think anyone put this up yet


according to yahoo

 Rubio entered Wednesday's game with 108 assists in his first 13 games, the sixth most in NBA history since the shot clock was introduced.

[PosImpos]

I don't think anyone put this up yet


according to yahoo

 Rubio entered Wednesday's game with 108 assists in his first 13 games, the sixth most in NBA history since the shot clock was introduced.

Few pass-first point guards are given the keys to an entire team's offense and played starter minutes pretty much as soon as they enter the league.  Usually rookies that get played a lot of minutes are expected to score a lot of points, particularly lottery picks.

But it speaks to how unique and impressive a talent Rubio is that he won over a veteran coach like Adelman so quickly.

[jdz101]

Gimme kyle lowry over rubio.

[BballTim]

I don't think anyone put this up yet


according to yahoo

 Rubio entered Wednesday's game with 108 assists in his first 13 games, the sixth most in NBA history since the shot clock was introduced.

  Impressive no doubt, but how many rookie point guards have played as much professional basketball before entering the nba as Rubio has?

[Eja117]

I don't think anyone put this up yet


according to yahoo

 Rubio entered Wednesday's game with 108 assists in his first 13 games, the sixth most in NBA history since the shot clock was introduced.

  Impressive no doubt, but how many rookie point guards have played as much professional basketball before entering the nba as Rubio has?

perhaps none and maybe that's the point

[tyrone biggums]

I don't think anyone put this up yet


according to yahoo

 Rubio entered Wednesday's game with 108 assists in his first 13 games, the sixth most in NBA history since the shot clock was introduced.

Rubio over his 13 games has been stellar, no one is denying that. I think someone mentioned Brandon Jennings and his first year as a comparison. In my opinion it would make no sense to deal our youngest player if we are rebuilding, unless if it's for an offensive upgrade. Rubio doesn't strike me as a consistent 15-20 ppg 10 assist a game guy...not many are. But Rondo more often than not gets pretty [dang] good production for the Celtics. Plus the contract is excellent too especially compared to Westbrooks new deal, keep Rondo and see what happens at the deadline.

  Impressive no doubt, but how many rookie point guards have played as much professional basketball before entering the nba as Rubio has?

perhaps none and maybe that's the point

[Eja117]

rubio is not on rondos level....at least not now. 

I agree. He seems above it

[Eja117]

I mean if Kahn went nuts, forgiving the money aspect of things, and offered Rubio for Rondo we should accept it in a nano second and send our best apple pie too, right? 

Mmmm.. No.



Rubio has played well. But he is getting big minutes on a bad team. I mean, seriously?

I'm super serial

[Eja117]

Get back to me when Rubio gets his first triple double...which will never happen.

for what it's worth I think it's like 7-4 in double doubles with Rubio winning

[ejk3489]

rubio is not on rondos level....at least not now. 

I agree. He seems above it

Based on 18 games...really?

Rondo 2011-12 stats: 15pts, 9.4asts, 5rbs, .51FG%, .60FT%

Rubio 2011-12 stats: 11.1pts, 8.7asts, 4.6rbs, .37FG%, .81FT%

That's better how?

[BballTim]

rubio is not on rondos level....at least not now. 

I agree. He seems above it

  Fewer points, fewer assists, worse efg% and TS%, less rebounding and worse defense = a higher level? Haha.

[Eja117]

rubio is not on rondos level....at least not now. 

I agree. He seems above it

Based on 18 games...really?

Rondo 2011-12 stats: 15pts, 9.4asts, 5rbs, .51FG%, .60FT%

Rubio 2011-12 stats: 11.1pts, 8.7asts, 4.6rbs, .37FG%, .81FT%

That's better how?

well.....one guy got hurt, and then his team ran off 4 straight wins. Hard to imagine that happening with Rubio.