Poll: ABradley made the rotation - what does that tells you?

[Celts Fan 92]

That they need to quit wit the Bradley experiment for those saying he needs more time who else has looked this inept on offense as a rookie for us and then magically improved quickly? I've already determined dude cant play good defender but the offensive skills of a middle school bench player a shooting guard who cant shoot or dribble dont keep jobs in the league for long

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

Bradley actually played pretty well last night and has been playing better and better. His man defense and his defensive rotations have been very good and getting better. Last night he ran the show in garbage time and was extremely good. He had a nice cross over, dribble drive and laid it down nice to Steimsma underneath.

Its one thing to have an opinion regarding Doc and his rotations and Bradley and his talent level, but at least watch what is happening with the players that Doc is using and see if you can see why he's doing what he's doing.

Dooling is looking more and more like he's having trouble running the offense and is looking more comfortable as the backup shooter rather than the backup ball handler. Rondo can't play 40-45 minutes every night and both Moore and Bradley are getting shots as the main ball handler in garbage time. Bradley over the last couple games has been better at it. His defense is catching Doc's eye as well as his positional knowledge and awareness of what his happening offensively.

Doc plays young players that play well, play defense and earn their time on the court. Steimsma is proof of that. For all the talk of "why is Doc using Bradley? Is he just being Doc with his pecking order" stuff, people forget he is playing the rookie Steimsma a lot. Why? Because the rook is earning his minutes and playing great ball.

Doesn't that kind of throw that whole logic right out the window?

Maybe someone answered you already but let's be real, Doc is play Stiems because Wilcox is injured! My guess to why he is playing Bradely... he is a really good defender! The rookies got like less than 2 minutes of garbage time with AB running the offense... the lead went from 18 to 8 and the offense looked TERRIBLE!

[TA9]

He deserves to get some playing time. Why? His defense is unbelieveable.
He doesnt deserve more playing time right now. If he finally gets "Control" over his offense, THEN i would like him to see play 20 min a night.

[nickagneta]

So much for the Steimsma is playing only because Wilcox is hurt. If that was true Wilcox would have started tonight and Steimsma would have come off the bench.

[nickagneta]

If you believe he is being showcased then you must believe this:

Ainge and Doc have already decided Bradley is so bad that he his option at the end of this year will not be renewed.

That's exactly it. I have seen how Danny and Doc run things long enough to believe they are showcasing Bradley. Danny knows that if your going to convince other GMs that he's good, you can't just suddenly throw him out there before the trading deadline. You have to make it look like he has been slowly earning minutes all year long.

How exactly do they run things that makes you feel that way?

You admit that it appears that the guy is earning his minutes which convinces you that he isn't earning his minutes and that Danny is showcasing him even though he has never showcased young talent for a trade before?

Makes zero sense.

Doc and Danny have showcased young and veteran talent before, and successfully traded them for good value. This wouldn't be the first or last time they are doing it. Wally Sczerbiak, Big Al Jefferson, Gerald Green, Ricky Davis (who had been put on fleetcenter and tv adverts instead of Pierce at that time!) Perk when he came back from his surgery, they made it look and sound like he was fully recovered when he clearly wasn't, the list can go on. When a guy starts getting more playing time than they seem to deserve based on what we see, and Doc and Danny start talking them up a lot, it usually means they will be gone soon. JO during the preseason was also a solid sell on their part to get David West, and it failed.  How many times did we hear how JO was the MVP of training camp?

1. Big Al and Gerald Green were traded in the off season. Rather hard to showcase talent when not playing.

2. You don't spend tens of thousands of dollars on advertising in your own building to showcase talent. I'm pretty sure the other GMs weren't walking through the Garden looking at still photos of Ricky Davis on advertising thinking "Wow, he really must be good, let's trade for him."

3. Perkins hurt his knee in the game before the trade. In the previous 7 games before that he was averaging over 30 MPG, 9 PPG, 9 RPG and 1.2 BPG. Those are about what he would be getting normally for minutes and about the production you would expect. That's not being showcased, its normal playing basketball. If he was rushed back to be showcased he would have not played as well as he did because he would have been slowed by the injury.

4. The David West deal fell apart on December 10th. Camps opened December 9th. Doc made the MVP comment on December 16th, 6 days after the West deal fell apart and 5 days after West signed with Indiana.

I'll keep it simple, I dissagree with all of your points. Danny and Doc know how to showcase guys, and doing it the way you are describing is too obvious and doesn't work.  Perkins numbers post surgery were bloated due to undeserved pt, he had no lateral movement and his defense sucked. We were doing great before he came back. Doc ran Wally into the ground on bad knees to boost his stats while the team kept losing. Advertising in your own arena doesn't cost you "tens of thousands of dollars" unless something is wrong with your organization. If Green and Jefferson didn't play the minutes they did the season before the trade, they would have had no value. GMs today aren't dumb, they aren't going to watch 2 weeks before the deadline and say "gee, that Bradley guy earned his way into the rotation this week, let's trade for him before some other GM scoops him up". Also, they know who teams are advertising well enough without having to "walk through the garden". If a guy is the main focus of ads he looks much more valued by the organization and thus teams will offer more to get him.

The building is owned by the Bruins not the Celtics. You still have to pay to have the ads made, printed and displayed.

By your theory, Danny and Doc have been showcasing every player they ever gave playing time to. Green was on and off the bench that year before he was traded. Wally was constantly trying to come back from injury that year before.  Perk was trying to come back from injury. For God's sake, man, Jefferson was a starter for years before he was traded.

This makes no sense whatsoever.

Let's agree to disagree and leave it at that.

[syfy9]

I have to question any basketball fan who has watched Bradley  play this season and hasn't realized that the guy totally sucks.   The only acceptable NBA skill shown by Bradley so far is the ability to move his feet and stay in front of his man defensively.  That's it. 

In 32 minutes of basketball, AB has 2 points (16% shooting), 3 rebounds, 1 assist, 1 TO.  That's it. If that's what you want out of your backup SG, good luck to you.  Even if you claim that he's been a shut down defender, it's still not enough to have him on the court with that kind of productivity. 

SGs have to be able to score in the NBA.  Bradley has shown that he can't be a PG.  So far, he has shown that he can't handle the SG position offensively.

Avery Bradley - the Dominic McGuire of shooting guards.  No, Thanks.  According to a poster in the Brooks/JJJ thread, SGs are a dime a dozen.  Danny Ainge should spend a dime and get a real one in here.

Well, based on data at

http://basketballvalue.com/player.php?year=2011-2012&id=876

Bradley actually hasn't gotten much time yet playing the SG spot.  Just 4 of his 31.85 minutes have been at SG.  The rest have been at PG - and most of those have been with the deep bench.

When he's come out at PG, again, mostly with the bench players around him, he has indeed 'sucked' in the sense that the team has sucked.  Their +/- ratings are all atrociously negative for those 27 minutes.  Whether that is ALL his fault is debatable.  Most of those minutes were in slop time against NOH, Detroit & Wash.  But no arguing - the net results there have not been good.

However, before you completely dismiss his potential as a SG, in his 4 minutes of play at SG - all with Rondo at PG and various others at the 3-4-5, he has posted a +33 +/- rating.

That's a very, very small sample.  Just 15 total possessions.  But at least it is a favorable sample.  And most of THOSE possessions were indeed in _meaningful_ game time against the Knicks.

TP, very nice post.

[manl_lui]

hes playing really good D right now, not too good offensively but plays really tight D on Crawford...

[hpantazo]

If you believe he is being showcased then you must believe this:

Ainge and Doc have already decided Bradley is so bad that he his option at the end of this year will not be renewed.

That's exactly it. I have seen how Danny and Doc run things long enough to believe they are showcasing Bradley. Danny knows that if your going to convince other GMs that he's good, you can't just suddenly throw him out there before the trading deadline. You have to make it look like he has been slowly earning minutes all year long.

How exactly do they run things that makes you feel that way?

You admit that it appears that the guy is earning his minutes which convinces you that he isn't earning his minutes and that Danny is showcasing him even though he has never showcased young talent for a trade before?

Makes zero sense.

Doc and Danny have showcased young and veteran talent before, and successfully traded them for good value. This wouldn't be the first or last time they are doing it. Wally Sczerbiak, Big Al Jefferson, Gerald Green, Ricky Davis (who had been put on fleetcenter and tv adverts instead of Pierce at that time!) Perk when he came back from his surgery, they made it look and sound like he was fully recovered when he clearly wasn't, the list can go on. When a guy starts getting more playing time than they seem to deserve based on what we see, and Doc and Danny start talking them up a lot, it usually means they will be gone soon. JO during the preseason was also a solid sell on their part to get David West, and it failed.  How many times did we hear how JO was the MVP of training camp?

1. Big Al and Gerald Green were traded in the off season. Rather hard to showcase talent when not playing.

2. You don't spend tens of thousands of dollars on advertising in your own building to showcase talent. I'm pretty sure the other GMs weren't walking through the Garden looking at still photos of Ricky Davis on advertising thinking "Wow, he really must be good, let's trade for him."

3. Perkins hurt his knee in the game before the trade. In the previous 7 games before that he was averaging over 30 MPG, 9 PPG, 9 RPG and 1.2 BPG. Those are about what he would be getting normally for minutes and about the production you would expect. That's not being showcased, its normal playing basketball. If he was rushed back to be showcased he would have not played as well as he did because he would have been slowed by the injury.

4. The David West deal fell apart on December 10th. Camps opened December 9th. Doc made the MVP comment on December 16th, 6 days after the West deal fell apart and 5 days after West signed with Indiana.

I'll keep it simple, I dissagree with all of your points. Danny and Doc know how to showcase guys, and doing it the way you are describing is too obvious and doesn't work.  Perkins numbers post surgery were bloated due to undeserved pt, he had no lateral movement and his defense sucked. We were doing great before he came back. Doc ran Wally into the ground on bad knees to boost his stats while the team kept losing. Advertising in your own arena doesn't cost you "tens of thousands of dollars" unless something is wrong with your organization. If Green and Jefferson didn't play the minutes they did the season before the trade, they would have had no value. GMs today aren't dumb, they aren't going to watch 2 weeks before the deadline and say "gee, that Bradley guy earned his way into the rotation this week, let's trade for him before some other GM scoops him up". Also, they know who teams are advertising well enough without having to "walk through the garden". If a guy is the main focus of ads he looks much more valued by the organization and thus teams will offer more to get him.

The building is owned by the Bruins not the Celtics. You still have to pay to have the ads made, printed and displayed.

By your theory, Danny and Doc have been showcasing every player they ever gave playing time to. Green was on and off the bench that year before he was traded. Wally was constantly trying to come back from injury that year before.  Perk was trying to come back from injury. For God's sake, man, Jefferson was a starter for years before he was traded.

This makes no sense whatsoever.

Let's agree to disagree and leave it at that.

cool, I can agree to disagree. TP for the discussion.

[nickagneta]

If you believe he is being showcased then you must believe this:

Ainge and Doc have already decided Bradley is so bad that he his option at the end of this year will not be renewed.

That's exactly it. I have seen how Danny and Doc run things long enough to believe they are showcasing Bradley. Danny knows that if your going to convince other GMs that he's good, you can't just suddenly throw him out there before the trading deadline. You have to make it look like he has been slowly earning minutes all year long.

How exactly do they run things that makes you feel that way?

You admit that it appears that the guy is earning his minutes which convinces you that he isn't earning his minutes and that Danny is showcasing him even though he has never showcased young talent for a trade before?

Makes zero sense.

Doc and Danny have showcased young and veteran talent before, and successfully traded them for good value. This wouldn't be the first or last time they are doing it. Wally Sczerbiak, Big Al Jefferson, Gerald Green, Ricky Davis (who had been put on fleetcenter and tv adverts instead of Pierce at that time!) Perk when he came back from his surgery, they made it look and sound like he was fully recovered when he clearly wasn't, the list can go on. When a guy starts getting more playing time than they seem to deserve based on what we see, and Doc and Danny start talking them up a lot, it usually means they will be gone soon. JO during the preseason was also a solid sell on their part to get David West, and it failed.  How many times did we hear how JO was the MVP of training camp?

1. Big Al and Gerald Green were traded in the off season. Rather hard to showcase talent when not playing.

2. You don't spend tens of thousands of dollars on advertising in your own building to showcase talent. I'm pretty sure the other GMs weren't walking through the Garden looking at still photos of Ricky Davis on advertising thinking "Wow, he really must be good, let's trade for him."

3. Perkins hurt his knee in the game before the trade. In the previous 7 games before that he was averaging over 30 MPG, 9 PPG, 9 RPG and 1.2 BPG. Those are about what he would be getting normally for minutes and about the production you would expect. That's not being showcased, its normal playing basketball. If he was rushed back to be showcased he would have not played as well as he did because he would have been slowed by the injury.

4. The David West deal fell apart on December 10th. Camps opened December 9th. Doc made the MVP comment on December 16th, 6 days after the West deal fell apart and 5 days after West signed with Indiana.

I'll keep it simple, I dissagree with all of your points. Danny and Doc know how to showcase guys, and doing it the way you are describing is too obvious and doesn't work.  Perkins numbers post surgery were bloated due to undeserved pt, he had no lateral movement and his defense sucked. We were doing great before he came back. Doc ran Wally into the ground on bad knees to boost his stats while the team kept losing. Advertising in your own arena doesn't cost you "tens of thousands of dollars" unless something is wrong with your organization. If Green and Jefferson didn't play the minutes they did the season before the trade, they would have had no value. GMs today aren't dumb, they aren't going to watch 2 weeks before the deadline and say "gee, that Bradley guy earned his way into the rotation this week, let's trade for him before some other GM scoops him up". Also, they know who teams are advertising well enough without having to "walk through the garden". If a guy is the main focus of ads he looks much more valued by the organization and thus teams will offer more to get him.

The building is owned by the Bruins not the Celtics. You still have to pay to have the ads made, printed and displayed.

By your theory, Danny and Doc have been showcasing every player they ever gave playing time to. Green was on and off the bench that year before he was traded. Wally was constantly trying to come back from injury that year before.  Perk was trying to come back from injury. For God's sake, man, Jefferson was a starter for years before he was traded.

This makes no sense whatsoever.

Let's agree to disagree and leave it at that.

cool, I can agree to disagree. TP for the discussion.

TP to you too. Very well done on your part with your points.

[ballin]

Honestly, it tells me that Doc is losing his touch as a coach if it tells me anything at all.

Being a good player in basketball means being good on both offense and defense, or being so good at one or the other it makes up for your weaknesses. Clearly, Bradley's weakness is his offense. So does his defense make up for it?

Well unfortunately, when you set the bar for ineptitude so high, it's a little difficult make up for it. Bradley is averaging .15% from the field. FIFTEEN PERCENT. Not only that, but playing as a point guard (or at least masquerading as one at 6 foot 2) he averages a SINGLE assist per 36 minutes! He also has the worst handles I've ever seen for an NBA player, including all centers I've ever seen dribble the ball up the court.

Bradley's offense is simply so bad that even if he were Gary Payton reincarnated on defense I don't think he would deserve any burn.

[birdwatcher]

It tells me that they can't just throw away a 1st round pick. Give the kid some minutes and see what he can do--next year is a team option year, so they either have to move him or commit to him. They won't just let him walk after 2 seasons with no return.

[kozlodoev]

Honestly, it tells me that Doc is losing his touch as a coach if it tells me anything at all.

Being a good player in basketball means being good on both offense and defense, or being so good at one or the other it makes up for your weaknesses. Clearly, Bradley's weakness is his offense. So does his defense make up for it?

Well unfortunately, when you set the bar for ineptitude so high, it's a little difficult make up for it. Bradley is averaging .15% from the field. FIFTEEN PERCENT. Not only that, but playing as a point guard (or at least masquerading as one at 6 foot 2) he averages a SINGLE assist per 36 minutes! He also has the worst handles I've ever seen for an NBA player, including all centers I've ever seen dribble the ball up the court.

Bradley's offense is simply so bad that even if he were Gary Payton reincarnated on defense I don't think he would deserve any burn.

So what you're really suggesting is that he should be replaced by E'Twaun Moore, who is shooting 0% for the season (or for his entire NBA career for that matter). Sorry, but your logic doesn't make much sense.

[SF Celtic]

The kid is a disgrace to the Celtics uniform

[PosImpos]

a shooting guard who cant shoot or dribble dont keep jobs in the league for long

how long has Tony Allen been in the league?

[hpantazo]

Honestly, it tells me that Doc is losing his touch as a coach if it tells me anything at all.

Being a good player in basketball means being good on both offense and defense, or being so good at one or the other it makes up for your weaknesses. Clearly, Bradley's weakness is his offense. So does his defense make up for it?

Well unfortunately, when you set the bar for ineptitude so high, it's a little difficult make up for it. Bradley is averaging .15% from the field. FIFTEEN PERCENT. Not only that, but playing as a point guard (or at least masquerading as one at 6 foot 2) he averages a SINGLE assist per 36 minutes! He also has the worst handles I've ever seen for an NBA player, including all centers I've ever seen dribble the ball up the court.

Bradley's offense is simply so bad that even if he were Gary Payton reincarnated on defense I don't think he would deserve any burn.

So what you're really suggesting is that he should be replaced by E'Twaun Moore, who is shooting 0% for the season (or for his entire NBA career for that matter). Sorry, but your logic doesn't make much sense.

that's a very illogical statement. If Moore had played anywhere near the minutes of Bradley he wouldn't be shooting 0 percent, thats a pathetic arguement