Poll: ABradley made the rotation - what does that tells you?

[mmmmm]

I have to question any basketball fan who has watched Bradley  play this season and hasn't realized that the guy totally sucks.   The only acceptable NBA skill shown by Bradley so far is the ability to move his feet and stay in front of his man defensively.  That's it. 

In 32 minutes of basketball, AB has 2 points (16% shooting), 3 rebounds, 1 assist, 1 TO.  That's it. If that's what you want out of your backup SG, good luck to you.  Even if you claim that he's been a shut down defender, it's still not enough to have him on the court with that kind of productivity. 

SGs have to be able to score in the NBA.  Bradley has shown that he can't be a PG.  So far, he has shown that he can't handle the SG position offensively.

Avery Bradley - the Dominic McGuire of shooting guards.  No, Thanks.  According to a poster in the Brooks/JJJ thread, SGs are a dime a dozen.  Danny Ainge should spend a dime and get a real one in here.

Well, based on data at

http://basketballvalue.com/player.php?year=2011-2012&id=876

Bradley actually hasn't gotten much time yet playing the SG spot.  Just 4 of his 31.85 minutes have been at SG.  The rest have been at PG - and most of those have been with the deep bench.

When he's come out at PG, again, mostly with the bench players around him, he has indeed 'sucked' in the sense that the team has sucked.  Their +/- ratings are all atrociously negative for those 27 minutes.  Whether that is ALL his fault is debatable.  Most of those minutes were in slop time against NOH, Detroit & Wash.  But no arguing - the net results there have not been good.

However, before you completely dismiss his potential as a SG, in his 4 minutes of play at SG - all with Rondo at PG and various others at the 3-4-5, he has posted a +33 +/- rating.

That's a very, very small sample.  Just 15 total possessions.  But at least it is a favorable sample.  And most of THOSE possessions were indeed in _meaningful_ game time against the Knicks.

[nickagneta]

For those saying that he is just being showcased could you please explain this logic?

The Celtics drafted him last year and he barely played.

He's only 21 years old.

He has shown actual defensive ability and knowledge in his rotations.

It is only the sixth game of the year tonight.

It just makes no sense that he is being showcased for a trade. You get showcased in the middle of the year before the trade deadline. The usual sign you are being showcased is that there are no injuries to people in front of you and suddenly your minutes expand tremendously. This usually happens because a GM informs the coach he has to do it.

That's not happening here. He's getting baby spooned meaningful minutes and playing in garbage time. That's the sign of being rewarded for showing something in practice not being showcased. Especially at the very very beginning of a season.

If you believe he is being showcased then you must believe this:

Ainge and Doc have already decided Bradley is so bad that he his option at the end of this year will not be renewed. They then decided the best thing for the franchise was not to be patient with an extremely young talent(something they have been with 2nd rounders, makes no sense not to be with a 1st rounder) and to play him from the very get go this season in a hope that some idiot GM somewhere doesn't see just how bad he is, like they do, and will trade them something of value for him.

I'm sorry, but, does this really make any sense whatsoever?

This Celtics management have given players such as Gabe Pruitt, JR Giddens, Bill Walker, Justin Reed and Gerald Green 1 1/2-2 years to show something and then never showcased any of them. They just included them as salary fodder in a larger deal.

Why would they suddenly change their management style now?

[TAllen]

I actually think Avery Bradley can still be a good player.  He needs to see his shot start to fall and his confidence start to build, but he has potential and looks the part.  He hasn't played very well yet but i have hope.  Maybe it's just the green blood in my veins.

[BigGovy]

His defense has been very impressive thus far in the minutes he has gotten both in man to man and rotations.

[xmuscularghandix]

It tells me that Doc values defense, and if you are an NBA level defender you will get your chance.

I've felt that people on here have been giving AB way too much grief. The kid was rated the #1 high school prospect (over John Wall), then he ended up at a school that wasn't exactly a perfect fit, then he got hurt and missed training camp, THEN the team that drafted him wasted a year of development trying to push him towards the wrong position... and after all that the kid is still just 21 years old.

In a backup lineup with Dooling, Daniels, and Bass i think the kid's lack of offense (for the time being) really doesn't matter.

[hpantazo]

If you believe he is being showcased then you must believe this:

Ainge and Doc have already decided Bradley is so bad that he his option at the end of this year will not be renewed.

That's exactly it. I have seen how Danny and Doc run things long enough to believe they are showcasing Bradley. Danny knows that if your going to convince other GMs that he's good, you can't just suddenly throw him out there before the trading deadline. You have to make it look like he has been slowly earning minutes all year long.

[kgiessler]

It tells that in practice Moore jumps on up-fakes the way he did yesterday in game.

[nickagneta]

If you believe he is being showcased then you must believe this:

Ainge and Doc have already decided Bradley is so bad that he his option at the end of this year will not be renewed.

That's exactly it. I have seen how Danny and Doc run things long enough to believe they are showcasing Bradley. Danny knows that if your going to convince other GMs that he's good, you can't just suddenly throw him out there before the trading deadline. You have to make it look like he has been slowly earning minutes all year long.

How exactly do they run things that makes you feel that way?

You admit that it appears that the guy is earning his minutes which convinces you that he isn't earning his minutes and that Danny is showcasing him even though he has never showcased young talent for a trade before?

Makes zero sense.

[hpantazo]

If you believe he is being showcased then you must believe this:

Ainge and Doc have already decided Bradley is so bad that he his option at the end of this year will not be renewed.

That's exactly it. I have seen how Danny and Doc run things long enough to believe they are showcasing Bradley. Danny knows that if your going to convince other GMs that he's good, you can't just suddenly throw him out there before the trading deadline. You have to make it look like he has been slowly earning minutes all year long.

How exactly do they run things that makes you feel that way?

You admit that it appears that the guy is earning his minutes which convinces you that he isn't earning his minutes and that Danny is showcasing him even though he has never showcased young talent for a trade before?

Makes zero sense.

Doc and Danny have showcased young and veteran talent before, and successfully traded them for good value. This wouldn't be the first or last time they are doing it. Wally Sczerbiak, Big Al Jefferson, Gerald Green, Ricky Davis (who had been put on fleetcenter and tv adverts instead of Pierce at that time!) Perk when he came back from his surgery, they made it look and sound like he was fully recovered when he clearly wasn't, the list can go on. When a guy starts getting more playing time than they seem to deserve based on what we see, and Doc and Danny start talking them up a lot, it usually means they will be gone soon. JO during the preseason was also a solid sell on their part to get David West, and it failed.  How many times did we hear how JO was the MVP of training camp?

[Jon]

I think this is much ado about nothing.  

First and foremost, Bradley is likely knocked from the rotation that second Pietrus gets healthy.  So this whole Bradley/Moore debate is pretty meaningless.

Second, I think Doc is simply giving the kid a shot.  They drafted him at #21 and Ainge obviously thinks quite highly of him.  Before totally shattering his confidence by benching him in favor of a second round draft pick, they might as well give him a chance to show he has game, especially when it's fairly risk free in the sense that Doc won't have to bench him in favor of Moore, he'll simply be bumped by the vet Pietrus regardless of how he plays.  

And I think it's a good plan.  The kid defends fairly well, which is #1 on this team.  Might as well give him some experience until Pietrus comes back.  

[Celtics4ever]

I voted showcasing.  Trouble is thus far he has been no0-casing not show casing in terms of his play.

[nickagneta]

If you believe he is being showcased then you must believe this:

Ainge and Doc have already decided Bradley is so bad that he his option at the end of this year will not be renewed.

That's exactly it. I have seen how Danny and Doc run things long enough to believe they are showcasing Bradley. Danny knows that if your going to convince other GMs that he's good, you can't just suddenly throw him out there before the trading deadline. You have to make it look like he has been slowly earning minutes all year long.

How exactly do they run things that makes you feel that way?

You admit that it appears that the guy is earning his minutes which convinces you that he isn't earning his minutes and that Danny is showcasing him even though he has never showcased young talent for a trade before?

Makes zero sense.

Doc and Danny have showcased young and veteran talent before, and successfully traded them for good value. This wouldn't be the first or last time they are doing it. Wally Sczerbiak, Big Al Jefferson, Gerald Green, Ricky Davis (who had been put on fleetcenter and tv adverts instead of Pierce at that time!) Perk when he came back from his surgery, they made it look and sound like he was fully recovered when he clearly wasn't, the list can go on. When a guy starts getting more playing time than they seem to deserve based on what we see, and Doc and Danny start talking them up a lot, it usually means they will be gone soon. JO during the preseason was also a solid sell on their part to get David West, and it failed.  How many times did we hear how JO was the MVP of training camp?

1. Big Al and Gerald Green were traded in the off season. Rather hard to showcase talent when not playing.

2. You don't spend tens of thousands of dollars on advertising in your own building to showcase talent. I'm pretty sure the other GMs weren't walking through the Garden looking at still photos of Ricky Davis on advertising thinking "Wow, he really must be good, let's trade for him."

3. Perkins hurt his knee in the game before the trade. In the previous 7 games before that he was averaging over 30 MPG, 9 PPG, 9 RPG and 1.2 BPG. Those are about what he would be getting normally for minutes and about the production you would expect. That's not being showcased, its normal playing basketball. If he was rushed back to be showcased he would have not played as well as he did because he would have been slowed by the injury.

4. The David West deal fell apart on December 10th. Camps opened December 9th. Doc made the MVP comment on December 16th, 6 days after the West deal fell apart and 5 days after West signed with Indiana.

[hpantazo]

If you believe he is being showcased then you must believe this:

Ainge and Doc have already decided Bradley is so bad that he his option at the end of this year will not be renewed.

That's exactly it. I have seen how Danny and Doc run things long enough to believe they are showcasing Bradley. Danny knows that if your going to convince other GMs that he's good, you can't just suddenly throw him out there before the trading deadline. You have to make it look like he has been slowly earning minutes all year long.

How exactly do they run things that makes you feel that way?

You admit that it appears that the guy is earning his minutes which convinces you that he isn't earning his minutes and that Danny is showcasing him even though he has never showcased young talent for a trade before?

Makes zero sense.

Doc and Danny have showcased young and veteran talent before, and successfully traded them for good value. This wouldn't be the first or last time they are doing it. Wally Sczerbiak, Big Al Jefferson, Gerald Green, Ricky Davis (who had been put on fleetcenter and tv adverts instead of Pierce at that time!) Perk when he came back from his surgery, they made it look and sound like he was fully recovered when he clearly wasn't, the list can go on. When a guy starts getting more playing time than they seem to deserve based on what we see, and Doc and Danny start talking them up a lot, it usually means they will be gone soon. JO during the preseason was also a solid sell on their part to get David West, and it failed.  How many times did we hear how JO was the MVP of training camp?

1. Big Al and Gerald Green were traded in the off season. Rather hard to showcase talent when not playing.

2. You don't spend tens of thousands of dollars on advertising in your own building to showcase talent. I'm pretty sure the other GMs weren't walking through the Garden looking at still photos of Ricky Davis on advertising thinking "Wow, he really must be good, let's trade for him."

3. Perkins hurt his knee in the game before the trade. In the previous 7 games before that he was averaging over 30 MPG, 9 PPG, 9 RPG and 1.2 BPG. Those are about what he would be getting normally for minutes and about the production you would expect. That's not being showcased, its normal playing basketball. If he was rushed back to be showcased he would have not played as well as he did because he would have been slowed by the injury.

4. The David West deal fell apart on December 10th. Camps opened December 9th. Doc made the MVP comment on December 16th, 6 days after the West deal fell apart and 5 days after West signed with Indiana.

I'll keep it simple, I dissagree with all of your points. Danny and Doc know how to showcase guys, and doing it the way you are describing is too obvious and doesn't work.  Perkins numbers post surgery were bloated due to undeserved pt, he had no lateral movement and his defense sucked. We were doing great before he came back. Doc ran Wally into the ground on bad knees to boost his stats while the team kept losing. Advertising in your own arena doesn't cost you "tens of thousands of dollars" unless something is wrong with your organization. If Green and Jefferson didn't play the minutes they did the season before the trade, they would have had no value. GMs today aren't dumb, they aren't going to watch 2 weeks before the deadline and say "gee, that Bradley guy earned his way into the rotation this week, let's trade for him before some other GM scoops him up". Also, they know who teams are advertising well enough without having to "walk through the garden". If a guy is the main focus of ads he looks much more valued by the organization and thus teams will offer more to get him.

[Norcalceltic]

Good post Nick, TP. I'm one who doesn't think Bradley sucks and who thinks we should give him a bit more time.

Here are my excuses:

1. The kid is only 20 or 21. Didn't he play only 1 or 2 years of college ball?

I am NOT saying he is Chauncey Billups, but I also remember Chauncey Billups stinking it up in Boston while he was here and we shipped him out before he could figure out who he was as a player.

Exactly. I think it's a little early to give up on Bradley. I don't want to get rid of him, and in 4 years he's beasting for another team. The Kid does look lost out there though.

[PosImpos]

It's a weak rotation, that's what it tells me.