What free agents do you guys think we have a real shot at signing?

[nickagneta]

I think Ainge will be shopping draft picks and a fat trade exception next offseason.  Luis Scola, Big Al, Josh Smith, Ben Gordon, Mo Williams, Jason Richardson, Andre Iguodala...  Imperfect players that might not be highly valued by their teams by next season.

I'm not sure that any of those players should be highly valued.

You wouldn't come out to see Rondo and Pierce play with Ben Gordon and Josh Smith, with JGreen off the bench?

Yikes...Gordon and Smith...no thanks.

[LooseCannon]

I think Ainge will be shopping draft picks and a fat trade exception next offseason.  Luis Scola, Big Al, Josh Smith, Ben Gordon, Mo Williams, Jason Richardson, Andre Iguodala...  Imperfect players that might not be highly valued by their teams by next season.

I'm not sure that any of those players should be highly valued.

You wouldn't come out to see Rondo and Pierce play with Ben Gordon and Josh Smith, with JGreen off the bench?

I would not want any of those players for anything near their current salaries.

[PosImpos]

None that are any good as rebuilding pieces.  The only free agents willing to come to Boston will be complementary players who will want to be paid as if they are key guys -- in other words, players who will want to be overpaid.


As for winning, we won't be doing a ton of that here after this season.  Back to the rebuilding bin after this season, unless the plan is to use cap space to cobble together a borderline-playoff mediocrity with Rondo carrying the show.

I think most here have expectations of a rebuilding process after this year.  Whether it is a 22 year process or 2-4 year process is impossible to predict.  It is baffling to me that you think you know who will or won't come here.  There is more than 1 way to skin a cat -- and DA and Doc have proven that you can get players to want to come here. Yes, the Big 3 have been the lure of the past, but it will take only 1 star to pair with RR to make Boston a desirable destination again. Maybe DA won't be able to find that player -- or maybe he does it in year 1 of the rebuild.  The David West experience does not define the future.

Okay, so which of the big name free agents coming up have indicated that Boston is a place they'd like to play?

How about this -- when has a big name free agent ever come to the Celtics?

What's so different about Boston than Chicago (got Boozer, got Ben Wallace before that)?

Boston hasn't had a chance to play in the modern free agent market.

What's so different about Boston than Chicago?


Oh come on, do we really have to discuss this?

Quick hits:


-- Chicago has Derrick Rose
-- Chicago has the Jordan mystique (which actually matters to current players since they grew up in the 90's)
-- Chicago is a much bigger, more exciting, diverse city than Boston.


Even so, Chicago got Boozer, but they couldn't attract Wade, Bosh, LeBron.

[snively]

I said in the game thread that if I were Ainge I might throw a very significant offer at Javale McGee this off season and see if they decide not to match.

I think he might be coming into his own and could be a future 18-20 PPG and 10-12 RPG type player with the right coaching and handling.

He'll be 24 years old and a four year vet. He's an athletic freak of nature and is the perfect running type big man to pair with Rondo in the future. He appears to be developing some very nice low post game and with proper coaching could be a defensive presence.

Other than him, Love is the only other guy I would throw big money at and Minnesota will match before the offer gets to them.

Big money?  You talking the max?  No interest in McGee for that price tag.  We'd be better off making a bid for Brendan Haywood when the Mavs amnesty him to make a run at Deron Williams. 

[nickagneta]

None that are any good as rebuilding pieces.  The only free agents willing to come to Boston will be complementary players who will want to be paid as if they are key guys -- in other words, players who will want to be overpaid.


As for winning, we won't be doing a ton of that here after this season.  Back to the rebuilding bin after this season, unless the plan is to use cap space to cobble together a borderline-playoff mediocrity with Rondo carrying the show.

I think most here have expectations of a rebuilding process after this year.  Whether it is a 22 year process or 2-4 year process is impossible to predict.  It is baffling to me that you think you know who will or won't come here.  There is more than 1 way to skin a cat -- and DA and Doc have proven that you can get players to want to come here. Yes, the Big 3 have been the lure of the past, but it will take only 1 star to pair with RR to make Boston a desirable destination again. Maybe DA won't be able to find that player -- or maybe he does it in year 1 of the rebuild.  The David West experience does not define the future.

Okay, so which of the big name free agents coming up have indicated that Boston is a place they'd like to play?

How about this -- when has a big name free agent ever come to the Celtics?

What's so different about Boston than Chicago (got Boozer, got Ben Wallace before that)?

Boston hasn't had a chance to play in the modern free agent market.

What's so different about Boston than Chicago?


Oh come on, do we really have to discuss this?

Quick hits:


-- Chicago has Derrick Rose
-- Chicago has the Jordan mystique (which actually matters to current players since they grew up in the 90's)
-- Chicago is a much bigger, more exciting, diverse city than Boston.

Also, better steak restaurants and a nightlife that doesn't end at 2 AM.

Boston does have better seafood and Italian restaurants though.

[PosImpos]

None that are any good as rebuilding pieces.  The only free agents willing to come to Boston will be complementary players who will want to be paid as if they are key guys -- in other words, players who will want to be overpaid.


As for winning, we won't be doing a ton of that here after this season.  Back to the rebuilding bin after this season, unless the plan is to use cap space to cobble together a borderline-playoff mediocrity with Rondo carrying the show.

I think most here have expectations of a rebuilding process after this year.  Whether it is a 22 year process or 2-4 year process is impossible to predict.  It is baffling to me that you think you know who will or won't come here.  There is more than 1 way to skin a cat -- and DA and Doc have proven that you can get players to want to come here. Yes, the Big 3 have been the lure of the past, but it will take only 1 star to pair with RR to make Boston a desirable destination again. Maybe DA won't be able to find that player -- or maybe he does it in year 1 of the rebuild.  The David West experience does not define the future.

Okay, so which of the big name free agents coming up have indicated that Boston is a place they'd like to play?

How about this -- when has a big name free agent ever come to the Celtics?

What's so different about Boston than Chicago (got Boozer, got Ben Wallace before that)?

Boston hasn't had a chance to play in the modern free agent market.

Chicago overpaid for Wallace who was well past his prime.  Boozer was joining a 41 win team that had 3 players that hadn't yet hit their prime that were all star level or better talent.  Not exactly what the Celtics are going to be this summer.

If the Celtics want to overpay players than yeah they could sign some guys in free agency, but in order to overpay that means they aren't max level players or even near max level players.  The Celtics have no young players aside from Rondo and Rondo can't carry a team and everyone in the league knows this.  He is a great third option, but third options don't win you titles. 

You said it all.

[snively]

None that are any good as rebuilding pieces.  The only free agents willing to come to Boston will be complementary players who will want to be paid as if they are key guys -- in other words, players who will want to be overpaid.


As for winning, we won't be doing a ton of that here after this season.  Back to the rebuilding bin after this season, unless the plan is to use cap space to cobble together a borderline-playoff mediocrity with Rondo carrying the show.

I think most here have expectations of a rebuilding process after this year.  Whether it is a 22 year process or 2-4 year process is impossible to predict.  It is baffling to me that you think you know who will or won't come here.  There is more than 1 way to skin a cat -- and DA and Doc have proven that you can get players to want to come here. Yes, the Big 3 have been the lure of the past, but it will take only 1 star to pair with RR to make Boston a desirable destination again. Maybe DA won't be able to find that player -- or maybe he does it in year 1 of the rebuild.  The David West experience does not define the future.

Okay, so which of the big name free agents coming up have indicated that Boston is a place they'd like to play?

How about this -- when has a big name free agent ever come to the Celtics?

What's so different about Boston than Chicago (got Boozer, got Ben Wallace before that)?

Boston hasn't had a chance to play in the modern free agent market.

What's so different about Boston than Chicago?


Oh come on, do we really have to discuss this?

Quick hits:


-- Chicago has Derrick Rose
-- Chicago has the Jordan mystique (which actually matters to current players since they grew up in the 90's)
-- Chicago is a much bigger, more exciting, diverse city than Boston.


Even so, Chicago got Boozer, but they couldn't attract Wade, Bosh, LeBron.

I'm sure the Jordan mystique and the diversity of Chicago's nightlife played about as much of a role in Boozer's decision as they did when he signed with the Utah Jazz years earlier. 

For the vast majority of players it's about money first, winning second, and only if all things are even do any of the concerns you're bringing up have any chance at tilting the balance in the favor of one team or another.

For the first time in ages, Boston will have enough money to make competitive offers for very good players.  And with Rondo and Pierce on board, they have an all-star supporting cast already in place.

[snively]

None that are any good as rebuilding pieces.  The only free agents willing to come to Boston will be complementary players who will want to be paid as if they are key guys -- in other words, players who will want to be overpaid.


As for winning, we won't be doing a ton of that here after this season.  Back to the rebuilding bin after this season, unless the plan is to use cap space to cobble together a borderline-playoff mediocrity with Rondo carrying the show.

I think most here have expectations of a rebuilding process after this year.  Whether it is a 22 year process or 2-4 year process is impossible to predict.  It is baffling to me that you think you know who will or won't come here.  There is more than 1 way to skin a cat -- and DA and Doc have proven that you can get players to want to come here. Yes, the Big 3 have been the lure of the past, but it will take only 1 star to pair with RR to make Boston a desirable destination again. Maybe DA won't be able to find that player -- or maybe he does it in year 1 of the rebuild.  The David West experience does not define the future.

Okay, so which of the big name free agents coming up have indicated that Boston is a place they'd like to play?

How about this -- when has a big name free agent ever come to the Celtics?

What's so different about Boston than Chicago (got Boozer, got Ben Wallace before that)?

Boston hasn't had a chance to play in the modern free agent market.

Chicago overpaid for Wallace who was well past his prime.  Boozer was joining a 41 win team that had 3 players that hadn't yet hit their prime that were all star level or better talent.  Not exactly what the Celtics are going to be this summer.

If the Celtics want to overpay players than yeah they could sign some guys in free agency, but in order to overpay that means they aren't max level players or even near max level players.  The Celtics have no young players aside from Rondo and Rondo can't carry a team and everyone in the league knows this.  He is a great third option, but third options don't win you titles. 

Ben Wallace was 31 and the reigning defensive player of the year.

We'll have two all-stars in Rondo and Pierce (who will probably be cap space after the 2012/2013 campaign), with a solid chance at adding highly regarded support players like Ray and Green on the cheap.

There's no valid reason to discount Boston as a free agency destination vs. other teams.  The greatest barrier is the new CBA, which allows the home team to offer a significantly higher amount of guaranteed money to free agents than outside suitors like the C's.

[PosImpos]

None that are any good as rebuilding pieces.  The only free agents willing to come to Boston will be complementary players who will want to be paid as if they are key guys -- in other words, players who will want to be overpaid.


As for winning, we won't be doing a ton of that here after this season.  Back to the rebuilding bin after this season, unless the plan is to use cap space to cobble together a borderline-playoff mediocrity with Rondo carrying the show.

I think most here have expectations of a rebuilding process after this year.  Whether it is a 22 year process or 2-4 year process is impossible to predict.  It is baffling to me that you think you know who will or won't come here.  There is more than 1 way to skin a cat -- and DA and Doc have proven that you can get players to want to come here. Yes, the Big 3 have been the lure of the past, but it will take only 1 star to pair with RR to make Boston a desirable destination again. Maybe DA won't be able to find that player -- or maybe he does it in year 1 of the rebuild.  The David West experience does not define the future.

Okay, so which of the big name free agents coming up have indicated that Boston is a place they'd like to play?

How about this -- when has a big name free agent ever come to the Celtics?

What's so different about Boston than Chicago (got Boozer, got Ben Wallace before that)?

Boston hasn't had a chance to play in the modern free agent market.

What's so different about Boston than Chicago?


Oh come on, do we really have to discuss this?

Quick hits:


-- Chicago has Derrick Rose
-- Chicago has the Jordan mystique (which actually matters to current players since they grew up in the 90's)
-- Chicago is a much bigger, more exciting, diverse city than Boston.


Even so, Chicago got Boozer, but they couldn't attract Wade, Bosh, LeBron.

I'm sure the Jordan mystique and the diversity of Chicago's nightlife played about as much of a role in Boozer's decision as they did when he signed with the Utah Jazz years earlier. 

For the vast majority of players it's about money first, winning second, and only if all things are even do any of the concerns you're bringing up have any chance at tilting the balance in the favor of one team or another.

For the first time in ages, Boston will have enough money to make competitive offers for very good players.  And with Rondo and Pierce on board, they have an all-star supporting cast already in place.

I don't think Rondo + Pierce has the "winning" allure that Chicago had with Rose, Deng, Noah. 

I think players would want to come to Boston if they had a young superstar in place and they just need one or two pieces to put them over the top.  That's the sort of situation that negates the differences in location.

[greensquirrel]

None that are any good as rebuilding pieces.  The only free agents willing to come to Boston will be complementary players who will want to be paid as if they are key guys -- in other words, players who will want to be overpaid.


As for winning, we won't be doing a ton of that here after this season.  Back to the rebuilding bin after this season, unless the plan is to use cap space to cobble together a borderline-playoff mediocrity with Rondo carrying the show.

I think most here have expectations of a rebuilding process after this year.  Whether it is a 22 year process or 2-4 year process is impossible to predict.  It is baffling to me that you think you know who will or won't come here.  There is more than 1 way to skin a cat -- and DA and Doc have proven that you can get players to want to come here. Yes, the Big 3 have been the lure of the past, but it will take only 1 star to pair with RR to make Boston a desirable destination again. Maybe DA won't be able to find that player -- or maybe he does it in year 1 of the rebuild.  The David West experience does not define the future.

Okay, so which of the big name free agents coming up have indicated that Boston is a place they'd like to play?

How about this -- when has a big name free agent ever come to the Celtics?

What's so different about Boston than Chicago (got Boozer, got Ben Wallace before that)?

Boston hasn't had a chance to play in the modern free agent market.

What's so different about Boston than Chicago?


Oh come on, do we really have to discuss this?

Quick hits:


-- Chicago has Derrick Rose
-- Chicago has the Jordan mystique (which actually matters to current players since they grew up in the 90's)
-- Chicago is a much bigger, more exciting, diverse city than Boston.

Also, better steak restaurants and a nightlife that doesn't end at 2 AM.

Boston does have better seafood and Italian restaurants though.

A nightlife that ends at 2AM? Sounds like hell on earth.

[snively]

None that are any good as rebuilding pieces.  The only free agents willing to come to Boston will be complementary players who will want to be paid as if they are key guys -- in other words, players who will want to be overpaid.


As for winning, we won't be doing a ton of that here after this season.  Back to the rebuilding bin after this season, unless the plan is to use cap space to cobble together a borderline-playoff mediocrity with Rondo carrying the show.

I think most here have expectations of a rebuilding process after this year.  Whether it is a 22 year process or 2-4 year process is impossible to predict.  It is baffling to me that you think you know who will or won't come here.  There is more than 1 way to skin a cat -- and DA and Doc have proven that you can get players to want to come here. Yes, the Big 3 have been the lure of the past, but it will take only 1 star to pair with RR to make Boston a desirable destination again. Maybe DA won't be able to find that player -- or maybe he does it in year 1 of the rebuild.  The David West experience does not define the future.

Okay, so which of the big name free agents coming up have indicated that Boston is a place they'd like to play?

How about this -- when has a big name free agent ever come to the Celtics?

What's so different about Boston than Chicago (got Boozer, got Ben Wallace before that)?

Boston hasn't had a chance to play in the modern free agent market.

What's so different about Boston than Chicago?


Oh come on, do we really have to discuss this?

Quick hits:


-- Chicago has Derrick Rose
-- Chicago has the Jordan mystique (which actually matters to current players since they grew up in the 90's)
-- Chicago is a much bigger, more exciting, diverse city than Boston.


Even so, Chicago got Boozer, but they couldn't attract Wade, Bosh, LeBron.

I'm sure the Jordan mystique and the diversity of Chicago's nightlife played about as much of a role in Boozer's decision as they did when he signed with the Utah Jazz years earlier. 

For the vast majority of players it's about money first, winning second, and only if all things are even do any of the concerns you're bringing up have any chance at tilting the balance in the favor of one team or another.

For the first time in ages, Boston will have enough money to make competitive offers for very good players.  And with Rondo and Pierce on board, they have an all-star supporting cast already in place.

I don't think Rondo + Pierce has the "winning" allure that Chicago had with Rose, Deng, Noah. 

I think players would want to come to Boston if they had a young superstar in place and they just need one or two pieces to put them over the top.  That's the sort of situation that negates the differences in location.

Rondo qualifies as a young superstar by some definitions.  Pierce is still a high-level player.  What other free agent destination is hands down more attractive? 

New Jersey, with D-Will and nothing else but a couple lousy contracts on the cap?  Dallas with an aged Dirk and Shawn Marion? Indy with Granger/West/George? Houston with Lowry/Martin/Scola? Portland with Aldridge/Matthews (assuming Wallace opts out, otherwise, probably not enough for a max)?

Our prospects match or exceed each those teams'.

[Inside-Out]

Kaman's my pick.

Rondo
Ray (STILL)
Pierce
Bass
Kaman

6th: JGreen

[mcshane41]

The beauty of cap space is that you can acquire players via trade very easily when you don't have to match salary.

Imagine Atlanta fails to land DH12 and looks to rebuild an expensive under achieving roster. The C's could make a play for Josh Smith and offer picks in return. He's no prize, sure he's a hot head, but a young athletic player who could be useful. Or Al Jefferson, also going to be in final year of an expensive deal, Utah could do worse than flip him for some picks, they won't get anything when he leaves in FA (same with Smith) and they are rebuilding.

Point is, cap space allows you to go after all players, not just free agents..

[Moranis]

None that are any good as rebuilding pieces.  The only free agents willing to come to Boston will be complementary players who will want to be paid as if they are key guys -- in other words, players who will want to be overpaid.


As for winning, we won't be doing a ton of that here after this season.  Back to the rebuilding bin after this season, unless the plan is to use cap space to cobble together a borderline-playoff mediocrity with Rondo carrying the show.

I think most here have expectations of a rebuilding process after this year.  Whether it is a 22 year process or 2-4 year process is impossible to predict.  It is baffling to me that you think you know who will or won't come here.  There is more than 1 way to skin a cat -- and DA and Doc have proven that you can get players to want to come here. Yes, the Big 3 have been the lure of the past, but it will take only 1 star to pair with RR to make Boston a desirable destination again. Maybe DA won't be able to find that player -- or maybe he does it in year 1 of the rebuild.  The David West experience does not define the future.

Okay, so which of the big name free agents coming up have indicated that Boston is a place they'd like to play?

How about this -- when has a big name free agent ever come to the Celtics?

What's so different about Boston than Chicago (got Boozer, got Ben Wallace before that)?

Boston hasn't had a chance to play in the modern free agent market.

Chicago overpaid for Wallace who was well past his prime.  Boozer was joining a 41 win team that had 3 players that hadn't yet hit their prime that were all star level or better talent.  Not exactly what the Celtics are going to be this summer.

If the Celtics want to overpay players than yeah they could sign some guys in free agency, but in order to overpay that means they aren't max level players or even near max level players.  The Celtics have no young players aside from Rondo and Rondo can't carry a team and everyone in the league knows this.  He is a great third option, but third options don't win you titles. 

Ben Wallace was 31 and the reigning defensive player of the year.

We'll have two all-stars in Rondo and Pierce (who will probably be cap space after the 2012/2013 campaign), with a solid chance at adding highly regarded support players like Ray and Green on the cheap.

There's no valid reason to discount Boston as a free agency destination vs. other teams.  The greatest barrier is the new CBA, which allows the home team to offer a significantly higher amount of guaranteed money to free agents than outside suitors like the C's.

Ben Wallace was past his prime.  He had been on a steady decline for years.  He won the DPOY award based on reputation (he was still good, but no longer great).  His rebounding, shot blocking, scoring, and minutes had declined pretty much every year for the 4 years before Detroit let him go and while he was still pretty good in his first year in Chicago he fell off the map big time thereafter (and was traded to Cleveland at the deadline in year 2).  Detroit knew this and let him walk rather than sign him to that big long term contract he got in Chicago. 

Boston could certainly sign players like Ben Wallace or overpay players like Ben Gordon or Charlie Villanueva, but it is not going to lure top tier talent with the makeup of the team as presently construed.  Boston needs to get some high lottery picks to get the next group of players to build a team around.  If there was more young talent on the team, Boston would look a lot more attractive to free agents, there just isn't those players around.  Again Rondo is a great third option not a team carrier.  When he was the C's best player the Celtics were 0-3 this year, only when Pierce came back to be the best player did the Celtics start winning.  The problem is Pierce is getting older and everyone knows he is on the decline.  No top tier talent wants to come here with the roster of this team.  Paul didn't.  Howard doesn't.  Williams doesn't.  etc. 

[hpantazo]

One thing Boston has over other cities that hasn't been mentioned here and that people seriously underestimate is Doc Rivers. There are a lot of guys who believe in him and would love to play for him. Don't discount the effect of Doc.