Poll: Is this year's bench better than the 2007-08 Celtics bench?

[manl_lui]

07-08 by a mile, until this bench us wins the championship, you can't really compare

though I can say this bench "should be" more reliable than last year's bench

[BudweiserCeltic]

They just seemed to shine in the right spots at the right time with really only Posey ever being a consistent force.

In my opinion the Posey era has been overly romanticized.

For example, I recall him being awesome early on in the Cavs series, then being a complete non-factor in the later portion of the series, to the point that he just couldn't be effective guarding LeBron, I remember screaming for Doc to put back Pierce in even though he was exhausted.

The I recall the Pistons series, in which really he simply couldn't help guard the fast players they had on that team, and recall one specific dumb turnover towards the end of one game, something that if it were Tony Allen we'd be crucifying him for it to this day, but we simply forget about it.

He was [dang] good for us in the finals though, particularly with his 3-point shooting in those LA games. His defense on Kobe though was not a good one, except in the last game but it was mainly because of a team effort to stop penetration that allowed him to succeed. Though his defense on Odom was completely awesome.

I think a lot of the attributed contribution to Posey really goes towards what Pierce did for us in that championship run. He really did cover a lot for what Posey was supposed to do for us. He handled LeBron, and he was the one who really took defending Kobe into his own hands when we needed it.

Now, Posey certainly was great for us, but he just seems like we think he did more than what he actually did. Love the toughness he brought though to each game, that certainly helped set the tone, but as far as a consistent contributor, he was up and down as everyone else I thought.

[chambers]

I know its only 4 games and this season could go in any direction. But before that championship season, that team's bench was considered by most pundits to be awful. Turns out they were dang good, maybe the best the team had had since the late 80's.

This year I think some thought this team was missing a bunch off the bench(centers and outside shooters) and had a lot of question marks as well(injury prone Daniels, black hole Bass, little defense Wilcox, Pietrus signed while hurt, basically 4 rookies) but had a few good players.

So what say you? Which bench is better. BTW I will leave the poll so that you can change your vote if as the season goes on you want to change it.

I thought our 2007-2008 bench sucked personally. What we did have was a great 7 man rotation, 8 when Doc finally played House, but he was used in spots. This became true though once Brown finally established himself for us during the Cleveland series, 2nd round of the playoffs, so we could go away from Davis and Powe who were highly inconsistent for us.

This

[nicknorman]

They just seemed to shine in the right spots at the right time with really only Posey ever being a consistent force.

In my opinion the Posey era has been overly romanticized.

For example, I recall him being awesome early on in the Cavs series, then being a complete non-factor in the later portion of the series, to the point that he just couldn't be effective guarding LeBron, I remember screaming for Doc to put back Pierce in even though he was exhausted.

The I recall the Pistons series, in which really he simply couldn't help guard the fast players they had on that team, and recall one specific dumb turnover towards the end of one game, something that if it were Tony Allen we'd be crucifying him for it to this day, but we simply forget about it.

He was [dang] good for us in the finals though, particularly with his 3-point shooting in those LA games. His defense on Kobe though was not a good one, except in the last game but it was mainly because of a team effort to stop penetration that allowed him to succeed. Though his defense on Odom was completely awesome.

I think a lot of the attributed contribution to Posey really goes towards what Pierce did for us in that championship run. He really did cover a lot for what Posey was supposed to do for us. He handled LeBron, and he was the one who really took defending Kobe into his own hands when we needed it.

Now, Posey certainly was great for us, but he just seems like we think he did more than what he actually did. Love the toughness he brought though to each game, that certainly helped set the tone, but as far as a consistent contributor, he was up and down as everyone else I thought.

In Posey's defense, Lebron played out of his mind against anyone who guarded him that series.  Even  that game where Pierce scored 40 something points, Lebron scored in the 40's also.

[BudweiserCeltic]

They just seemed to shine in the right spots at the right time with really only Posey ever being a consistent force.

In my opinion the Posey era has been overly romanticized.

For example, I recall him being awesome early on in the Cavs series, then being a complete non-factor in the later portion of the series, to the point that he just couldn't be effective guarding LeBron, I remember screaming for Doc to put back Pierce in even though he was exhausted.

The I recall the Pistons series, in which really he simply couldn't help guard the fast players they had on that team, and recall one specific dumb turnover towards the end of one game, something that if it were Tony Allen we'd be crucifying him for it to this day, but we simply forget about it.

He was [dang] good for us in the finals though, particularly with his 3-point shooting in those LA games. His defense on Kobe though was not a good one, except in the last game but it was mainly because of a team effort to stop penetration that allowed him to succeed. Though his defense on Odom was completely awesome.

I think a lot of the attributed contribution to Posey really goes towards what Pierce did for us in that championship run. He really did cover a lot for what Posey was supposed to do for us. He handled LeBron, and he was the one who really took defending Kobe into his own hands when we needed it.

Now, Posey certainly was great for us, but he just seems like we think he did more than what he actually did. Love the toughness he brought though to each game, that certainly helped set the tone, but as far as a consistent contributor, he was up and down as everyone else I thought.

In Posey's defense, Lebron played out of his mind against anyone who guarded him that series.  Even  that game where Pierce scored 40 something points, Lebron scored in the 40's also.

Oh, I don't mind him not being able to stop LeBron. I do mind that LeBron was having a much easier time with him than with Pierce. Pierce who had been playing 40+ minutes in each of the final 4 games of the series, in part because Posey was really doing nothing for us in any side of the ball.

[nickagneta]

They just seemed to shine in the right spots at the right time with really only Posey ever being a consistent force.

In my opinion the Posey era has been overly romanticized.

For example, I recall him being awesome early on in the Cavs series, then being a complete non-factor in the later portion of the series, to the point that he just couldn't be effective guarding LeBron, I remember screaming for Doc to put back Pierce in even though he was exhausted.

The I recall the Pistons series, in which really he simply couldn't help guard the fast players they had on that team, and recall one specific dumb turnover towards the end of one game, something that if it were Tony Allen we'd be crucifying him for it to this day, but we simply forget about it.

He was [dang] good for us in the finals though, particularly with his 3-point shooting in those LA games. His defense on Kobe though was not a good one, except in the last game but it was mainly because of a team effort to stop penetration that allowed him to succeed. Though his defense on Odom was completely awesome.

I think a lot of the attributed contribution to Posey really goes towards what Pierce did for us in that championship run. He really did cover a lot for what Posey was supposed to do for us. He handled LeBron, and he was the one who really took defending Kobe into his own hands when we needed it.

Now, Posey certainly was great for us, but he just seems like we think he did more than what he actually did. Love the toughness he brought though to each game, that certainly helped set the tone, but as far as a consistent contributor, he was up and down as everyone else I thought.

I think you are underselling what Posey meant to that team. He was the only one that had won a ring. His camaraderie and locker room leadership were huge. He could effectively guard three positions. He spread the floor along with a hot house and kept the middle of the floor open for Pierce and Rondo penetrations. He was tough and gritty and clutch.

I don't think that is an over-romanticized look at what he meant to that team. Without him there really is no ring because the C's weren't getting anyone to do for them for what they paid Posey that year.

[BudweiserCeltic]

They just seemed to shine in the right spots at the right time with really only Posey ever being a consistent force.

In my opinion the Posey era has been overly romanticized.

For example, I recall him being awesome early on in the Cavs series, then being a complete non-factor in the later portion of the series, to the point that he just couldn't be effective guarding LeBron, I remember screaming for Doc to put back Pierce in even though he was exhausted.

The I recall the Pistons series, in which really he simply couldn't help guard the fast players they had on that team, and recall one specific dumb turnover towards the end of one game, something that if it were Tony Allen we'd be crucifying him for it to this day, but we simply forget about it.

He was [dang] good for us in the finals though, particularly with his 3-point shooting in those LA games. His defense on Kobe though was not a good one, except in the last game but it was mainly because of a team effort to stop penetration that allowed him to succeed. Though his defense on Odom was completely awesome.

I think a lot of the attributed contribution to Posey really goes towards what Pierce did for us in that championship run. He really did cover a lot for what Posey was supposed to do for us. He handled LeBron, and he was the one who really took defending Kobe into his own hands when we needed it.

Now, Posey certainly was great for us, but he just seems like we think he did more than what he actually did. Love the toughness he brought though to each game, that certainly helped set the tone, but as far as a consistent contributor, he was up and down as everyone else I thought.

I think you are underselling what Posey meant to that team. He was the only one that had won a ring. His camaraderie and locker room leadership were huge. He could effectively guard three positions. He spread the floor along with a hot house and kept the middle of the floor open for Pierce and Rondo penetrations. He was tough and gritty and clutch.

I don't think that is an over-romanticized look at what he meant to that team. Without him there really is no ring because the C's weren't getting anyone to do for them for what they paid Posey that year.

While all those things are true, I think it's a disservice to the facts of the matter to ignore his blunders also. Would we have won without him? Probably not, as you say. But had plenty of poor, non-contributing games in that playoff run. But when it mattered in the end, he really came through for us. The point, is what anything I said false? I don't think so.

I thought TA, for example, gave us about the same Posey gave us in the 2009-2010 playoff run. Sadly we came up short.

[ballin]

I know its only 4 games and this season could go in any direction. But before that championship season, that team's bench was considered by most pundits to be awful. Turns out they were dang good, maybe the best the team had had since the late 80's.

This year I think some thought this team was missing a bunch off the bench(centers and outside shooters) and had a lot of question marks as well(injury prone Daniels, black hole Bass, little defense Wilcox, Pietrus signed while hurt, basically 4 rookies) but had a few good players.

So what say you? Which bench is better. BTW I will leave the poll so that you can change your vote if as the season goes on you want to change it.

I thought our 2007-2008 bench sucked personally. What we did have was a great 7 man rotation, 8 when Doc finally played House, but he was used in spots. This became true though once Brown finally established himself for us during the Cleveland series, 2nd round of the playoffs, so we could go away from Davis and Powe who were highly inconsistent for us.

This

Actually, the exact opposite of this.

2007-2008 had a number of legit players:

Posey of course, who was in his prime and easily better than any backup wing we have currently (by a long shot). House, who again was better than any backup guard we currently have (we've given Avery Bradley minutes?? UGHH). And Powe, who if you don't remember (seems nobody does) had an absolutely ridiculous year, culminating in a 21 point outburst in the finals.

With the exception of Bass, I don't see much to like about this year's bench.

[BudweiserCeltic]

I know its only 4 games and this season could go in any direction. But before that championship season, that team's bench was considered by most pundits to be awful. Turns out they were dang good, maybe the best the team had had since the late 80's.

This year I think some thought this team was missing a bunch off the bench(centers and outside shooters) and had a lot of question marks as well(injury prone Daniels, black hole Bass, little defense Wilcox, Pietrus signed while hurt, basically 4 rookies) but had a few good players.

So what say you? Which bench is better. BTW I will leave the poll so that you can change your vote if as the season goes on you want to change it.

I thought our 2007-2008 bench sucked personally. What we did have was a great 7 man rotation, 8 when Doc finally played House, but he was used in spots. This became true though once Brown finally established himself for us during the Cleveland series, 2nd round of the playoffs, so we could go away from Davis and Powe who were highly inconsistent for us.

This

Actually, the exact opposite of this.

2007-2008 had a number of legit players:

Posey of course, who was in his prime and easily better than any backup wing we have currently (by a long shot). House, who again was better than any backup guard we currently have (we've given Avery Bradley minutes?? UGHH). And Powe, who if you don't remember (seems nobody does) had an absolutely ridiculous year, culminating in a 21 point outburst in the finals.

With the exception of Bass, I don't see much to like about this year's bench.

Oh I remember Powe, but he did not have an absolutely ridiculous year. In fact, he could barely make it to the floor during the playoffs because he was so inconsistent for us, particularly defensively. That's why it was so important the emergence of PJ Brown, because it allowed us to go in a 3 big man rotation for the most part with KG-Perk-Brown.

Seems like you're confusing one awesome game in the finals as a representation of what Powe actually did for us.

Powe was battling Baby throughout the whole year for minutes, no one capable of winning the role because of inconsistent issues.

[ballin]

I know its only 4 games and this season could go in any direction. But before that championship season, that team's bench was considered by most pundits to be awful. Turns out they were dang good, maybe the best the team had had since the late 80's.

This year I think some thought this team was missing a bunch off the bench(centers and outside shooters) and had a lot of question marks as well(injury prone Daniels, black hole Bass, little defense Wilcox, Pietrus signed while hurt, basically 4 rookies) but had a few good players.

So what say you? Which bench is better. BTW I will leave the poll so that you can change your vote if as the season goes on you want to change it.

I thought our 2007-2008 bench sucked personally. What we did have was a great 7 man rotation, 8 when Doc finally played House, but he was used in spots. This became true though once Brown finally established himself for us during the Cleveland series, 2nd round of the playoffs, so we could go away from Davis and Powe who were highly inconsistent for us.

This

Actually, the exact opposite of this.

2007-2008 had a number of legit players:

Posey of course, who was in his prime and easily better than any backup wing we have currently (by a long shot). House, who again was better than any backup guard we currently have (we've given Avery Bradley minutes?? UGHH). And Powe, who if you don't remember (seems nobody does) had an absolutely ridiculous year, culminating in a 21 point outburst in the finals.

With the exception of Bass, I don't see much to like about this year's bench.

Oh I remember Powe, but he did not have an absolutely ridiculous year. In fact, he could barely make it to the floor during the playoffs because he was so inconsistent for us, particularly defensively. That's why it was so important the emergence of PJ Brown, because it allowed us to go in a 3 big man rotation for the most part with KG-Perk-Brown.

Seems like you're confusing one awesome game in the finals as a representation of what Powe actually did for us.

Powe was battling Baby throughout the whole year for minutes, no one capable of winning the role because of inconsistent issues.

Are we talking about the same people?

The same Powe who scored 21 points in the finals? Who had a 20.9 PER for the season (versus Glen Davis's 11.9) Powe, who had literally double the minutes than Davis during the playoffs (actually closer to 2 and a half times the total minutes)?

Powe, who shot 49% during the playoffs while Baby shot 41%?

And as for PJ Brown, he also shot a worse percentage from the field and had a terrible PER of 10.2 for the season. He also shot worse from the field than Powe and collected fewer rebounds during the playoffs.

Powe was better than PJ Brown and Davis, and though I could find about a billion stats that would say this, nothing compares to just looking at the old game film and seeing how much better he truly was that year.

[Celtics4ever]

Let us wait until Pietrus suits up to consider this matter.   Our bench is going to have to better this year considering the age of some of our starters though and that is simply a fact.

[Drucci]

On paper, the current bench is better than the 07-08 bench. Now it remains to be seen if guys like Pietrus, Bass and Dooling will have the same impact Posey and House had.

[Who]

For me, it depends on Dooling's role. If he is the primary backup PG, then no, I prefer 2008. If Marquis Daniels is the backup PG/SG and Dooling is the third string PG, then yes, I can see this year's bench out-doing 2008.

I would also like to see a solid defensive big man off the bench. Doesn't need to be anyone spectacular. Might not even a rotation player. Just a reliable third string center (like what Atlanta got out of Jason Collins last year). Hopefully, Stiemsma can be that guy but it's too early to say.

So those are my two questions -- backup PG and defensive big -- that need to be answered. If they go well, sure, I'll go with this year's bench. If not, I prefer 2008.

One of the things I liked most about 2008's bench was how deep it was. It went about 12-13 players deep in guys you could throw out there in a playoff game and get a decent performance out of. Third string players like Sam Cassell, Brian Scalabrine, Tony Allen, Glen Davis who offered different skill-sets to the guys playing ahead of them (House, Posey, Powe, PJ Brown). Guys you could put into a playoff game and get something out of (well, TA was more of a wild card).

Even though it was short on high quality bench players (outside of Posey), I thought it supplied good depth beyond that with differing skill-sets and reliable options for Doc to call upon where he felt necessary.

I think the 2012 bench could have a similar depth with Marquis at PG (Dooling at 3rd string) and with a useful defensive 3rd string center (hopefully Stiemsma can be that).

Also, having a high quality 6th man like Posey (Pietrus? He has offered similar value as a sixth man in the playoffs when that streaky jumper of his has been locked on but not really in the regular season) + shooters on the perimeter in House and Posey who can spread the floor + a quality defensive big man in PJ Brown.

I am going to go with 2008 for now until I see how those two questions (backup PG, defensive big) play out over the next few weeks/months.

[BASS_THUMPER]

potentially better than 08

still early to tell

[RockinRyA]

They just seemed to shine in the right spots at the right time with really only Posey ever being a consistent force.

In my opinion the Posey era has been overly romanticized.

For example, I recall him being awesome early on in the Cavs series, then being a complete non-factor in the later portion of the series, to the point that he just couldn't be effective guarding LeBron, I remember screaming for Doc to put back Pierce in even though he was exhausted.

The I recall the Pistons series, in which really he simply couldn't help guard the fast players they had on that team, and recall one specific dumb turnover towards the end of one game, something that if it were Tony Allen we'd be crucifying him for it to this day, but we simply forget about it.

He was [dang] good for us in the finals though, particularly with his 3-point shooting in those LA games. His defense on Kobe though was not a good one, except in the last game but it was mainly because of a team effort to stop penetration that allowed him to succeed. Though his defense on Odom was completely awesome.

I think a lot of the attributed contribution to Posey really goes towards what Pierce did for us in that championship run. He really did cover a lot for what Posey was supposed to do for us. He handled LeBron, and he was the one who really took defending Kobe into his own hands when we needed it.

Now, Posey certainly was great for us, but he just seems like we think he did more than what he actually did. Love the toughness he brought though to each game, that certainly helped set the tone, but as far as a consistent contributor, he was up and down as everyone else I thought.

what you are saying is really spot on. He was really ineffective in the cavs series, save for game 7, lebron was held to poor shooting nights (although he still manages to get his points) and I was really upset whenever posey was guarding lebron lebron seems to break out of his slump. In the finals he was mostly guarding radmanovic and Odom  as a stretch 4 where he really did a great job. (this is where we missed him when we played LA again 2 years later save for the few secs scal played on Odom). The task to guard ray was shouldered mostly by pierce and ray. TA is actually a better defender against 2s and 3s, but he couldnt have a similar impact like posey did in that finals bec of the simple fact that he cannot shoot.

Also about Powe, yes he did have that 21 pts in game 2, but save for that game, he didnt have any meaningful games throughout that playoffs.

Its easy to forget all the blunders/deficiencies of the players from that playoffs after we won it all. I bet some even forgot about ray's shooting woes in the first 2 series. But that is how our mind works, we see it as a magical ride and sometimes, those details are best forgotten.