Brandon Bass vs big baby davis

[kozlodoev]

I really don't think he looked THAT bad on D. Sure, he wasn't spectacular. Baby's main advantage that he had fat AND was short (yes, believe it or not, that helps when getting posted up, because your center of gravity is lower, so it is easier to plant yourself and harder to dislodge you).

He got posterized by Andrea Bargnani because he wasn't anywhere withing 5 feet of him on a simple cut. This, and numerous porr reads on rotations. Count me as unimpressed with his defensive skills.

[Snakehead]

Points and not getting your shot blocked are superficial?  Points win the games.  Big Baby's inability to finish strong (with dunks, yes they do actually have value) took points off the board for us.

Yes, "points win the games" is exactly the type of superficial approach I'm talking about. What wins you games is the scoring more points than the opposition... which has 2 components: (a) scoring points, and (b) preventing the opposition from scoring points.

The typical belief is that (b) is more important than (a), as evidenced by the success of recent Celtics and Spurs teams, and the failure of recent Suns teams, to name a few.

I am very well aware of this.  But you are talking as if BBD is KG.

The fact is that the Celtics have already been a top level defensive team and what has held us back is our offense, which is middle of the road.

I'll give BBD credit for contributing to our D, but the possible drop off from BBD to Bass on D is absolutely worth the upgrade Bass brings to the table on offense.

I am all about defense (keep in mind I'm one of the few Avery Bradley fans on here), but as some point you also have to score the basketball and do so effeciently (which is not BBD).

We've got 4 other guys that can score the ball pretty efficiently. How much more scoring do you need?!

More considering we are a a middle of the road offensive team.  The stats are clear as day I don't know what to tell you.  Notice we played nearly our best or our best basketball of the Big Three/Four era last year with Shaq, who wasn't the defender Perk was but was much better on offense.

And as for D, I'm not going to knock Bass until he gets more time.  Again, every single new player we have always says they have to get used to our defensive scheme and it takes time for them.

[RyNye]

This, and numerous porr reads on rotations.

That's the thing, I didn't see very many errors. Yes, he had some, but I didn't see signs of consistently poor defense. He was erratic, but not overall poor. Which to me indicates he is still getting used to the system.

considering we are a a middle of the road offensive team.  The stats are clear as day I don't know what to tell you.[/quote

The stats are clear as day: We were in the top 5 for TS% and number 1 in the league for FG%. We were number two for assist rate. That's not a middle of the road offense by any means.

Does our offense need to improve? Yes, but calling it middle of the road is disingenuous. Our problems were from 3-point land (though our 3P% was elite, our 3PR was among the last in the league), getting to the line (though we were top 10 in FT%, we were middle of the road for FTR), and offensive rebounds/inside scoring (not a surprise, really, considering the lack of consistency at the 5 spot).

[moiso]

This, and numerous porr reads on rotations.

That's the thing, I didn't see very many errors. Yes, he had some, but I didn't see signs of consistently poor defense. He was erratic, but not overall poor. Which to me indicates he is still getting used to the system.

considering we are a a middle of the road offensive team.  The stats are clear as day I don't know what to tell you.[/quote

The stats are clear as day: We were in the top 5 for TS% and number 1 in the league for FG%. We were number two for assist rate. That's not a middle of the road offense by any means.

Does our offense need to improve? Yes, but calling it middle of the road is disingenuous. Our problems were from 3-point land (though our 3P% was elite, our 3PR was among the last in the league), getting to the line (though we were top 10 in FT%, we were middle of the road for FTR), and offensive rebounds/inside scoring (not a surprise, really, considering the lack of consistency at the 5 spot).

I remember someone out of Olando said that Bass was never really able to learn the system and playbook.  I don't think there is any question that Davis is a much better defender.  On offense Bass is far superior.

[Snakehead]

This, and numerous porr reads on rotations.

That's the thing, I didn't see very many errors. Yes, he had some, but I didn't see signs of consistently poor defense. He was erratic, but not overall poor. Which to me indicates he is still getting used to the system.

considering we are a a middle of the road offensive team.  The stats are clear as day I don't know what to tell you.

The stats are clear as day: We were in the top 5 for TS% and number 1 in the league for FG%. We were number two for assist rate. That's not a middle of the road offense by any means.

Does our offense need to improve? Yes, but calling it middle of the road is disingenuous. Our problems were from 3-point land (though our 3P% was elite, our 3PR was among the last in the league), getting to the line (though we were top 10 in FT%, we were middle of the road for FTR), and offensive rebounds/inside scoring (not a surprise, really, considering the lack of consistency at the 5 spot).

Just because we shoot effeciently doesn't mean we are that good on offense.  There is more to it than that. Perhaps middle of the road is a bit unfair, but the overall offensive numbers have us around there. I like how we play on the offensive end don't get me wrong (the extra pass, unselfish, Rondo's IQ and passing, effeciency from Ray, Pierce, KG, all that), but if we had another legit scorer on the floor it helps us a lot.

That's what Shaq brought us that was so valuable.  He was a low post scoring threat unlike any other that has played with the Big Four.  That opens up the floor and draws in the defense in a big way.

Bass doesn't provide that same option, but he is a more effecient offensive player than BBD who can spread the floor with his jump shot, allowing Rondo and others to captialize on open space that is created.

[jc3celticsphan]

I really don't think he looked THAT bad on D. Sure, he wasn't spectacular. Baby's main advantage that he had fat AND was short (yes, believe it or not, that helps when getting posted up, because your center of gravity is lower, so it is easier to plant yourself and harder to dislodge you).

He got posterized by Andrea Bargnani because he wasn't anywhere withing 5 feet of him on a simple cut. This, and numerous porr reads on rotations. Count me as unimpressed with his defensive skills.

lol dude said he had an advantage being fat haha. big baby is pretty quick on his feet thats his main advantage on defense plus his size.

[ManchesterCelticsFan]

Just checked out the stats through 5 games and Brandon Bass is producing better than Big Baby. If this keeps up, Danny Ainge should get accolades for trading BBD for what seems to now be a better player when BBD was going to leave anyways for more $$$!

[BASS_THUMPER]

baby gave a 100%

got knocked out...throwin himself round the hardwood..

bass is better but lets not forget glen davis contribution here

[PosImpos]

Is this still a discussion?  Brandon Bass is by far the better player.

[jdz101]

Bass is better....its not close.

[Change]

DA won.

Brandon Bass is James Posey (closer) in a sense. Celtics have been researching for James Posey, a 5th complementary piece to go along Big4, type of player for last 4 years.

I can't wrap my head around how DA turned a fat cry-baby who was unrestricted FA into Brandon Bass. Danny Ainge you never cease to amaze me.

[kozlodoev]

Is this still a discussion?  Brandon Bass is by far the better player.

No, not anymore. Bass now looks significantly better on defense -- at least to me.

[Fafnir]

DA won.

Brandon Bass is James Posey (closer) in a sense. Celtics have been researching for James Posey, a 5th complementary piece to go along Big4, type of player for last 4 years.

I can't wrap my head around how DA turned a fat cry-baby who was unrestricted FA into Brandon Bass. Danny Ainge you never cease to amaze me.

Yeah I didn't understand it from the Orlando POV then either.

[kozlodoev]

On the other hand, after people have been piling on Davis for the whole last year that he's a poor rebounder, it's funny to see Bass coming here and posting virtually identical rebounding numbers, and no-one on the blog says a word.

[Cman]

DA won.

Brandon Bass is James Posey (closer) in a sense. Celtics have been researching for James Posey, a 5th complementary piece to go along Big4, type of player for last 4 years.

I can't wrap my head around how DA turned a fat cry-baby who was unrestricted FA into Brandon Bass. Danny Ainge you never cease to amaze me.

Yeah I didn't understand it from the Orlando POV then either.

Apparently BBD is a close friend of DH. I guess part of the thinking was that it would increase the chances of keeping DH.