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My observations 2nd and 3rd unit:
« on: December 22, 2011, 07:32:38 AM »

Offline coco

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My observations 2nd and 3rd units:

BBass – not quite BBD on team defense but will do just fine

ABradley – clock is ticking, still needs lots of work, has the potential to drive me crazy

GBrown –  why is he getting minutes?

MDaniels – does his job perfectly, glad he is back

KDooling – good backup

JJJohnson – better than I thought

ETMoore – a keeper, will challenge KDooling for mins

SPavlovic – better defender than given credit

GStiemsma – better than I thought, might challenge CWilcox for mins

CWilcox – a hacking machine, will drive me crazy

MSweetney – scratch

JSampson – who is this guy?

Re: My observations 2nd and 3rd unit:
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2011, 07:39:52 AM »

Offline CFAN38

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if we could take 100 lbs off sweetney and give 50 to JJ,20 to avery, and ship the other 30 out to baron davis our bench would look great.

Seriously I think the potential is there for a high energy bench that does a good job playing D. I think points off the bench will be lacking and once again ray/paul will have to play with 2nd unit.
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Re: My observations 2nd and 3rd unit:
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2011, 07:43:48 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Sasha - I think we are in big time trouble if we have to play Sasha for significant minutes.   I saw one play where he showed good defense but one play ain't going to cut at SF guarding LeBron.  I would be on the phone for Bogans today he is a much better defender than Sasha.

Bass is much better on offense than Baby in terms of shooting accuracy.  I think he is not as good as a passer.  He is not as good with positional defense  and is prone to overplay his man but he rebounds better.

Bradley could not make two with a pencil.   His shooting is abyssmal.  He had a case of Big Babytis last night and thought he was first time offense all NBA.   He shot too many shots and went for purposeless one on one shots and jumpers and was exposed for a poor shooter that he is last night.   His defense is much better than Sasha's and his activity level is high but he isn't Derrick Rose and needs to play within his game.

Overall, I think the bench is better than last year.

Re: My observations 2nd and 3rd unit:
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2011, 07:52:53 AM »

Offline chambers

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I'm worried that Doc doesn't have confidence in J.Johnson.
He has played barely any minutes- although when he's been on, he's looked great to me.
One specific play where he reached over 2 Raptor players high in the air, grabbed the rebound, the made a nice spin/ pivot move and dropped the bucket in- only to have the rookie referee call him for a totally bogus travel.

I thought Wilcox's footwork was very questionable at time- almost as bad as Jeff Greens. He seemed to trip over every second play.
He does have hops though. I was pleasantly surprised by Steimsma- I also liked his post game interview where he said he was happy to make the roster but he wasn't just there to fill numbers and he could actually help the team.
Bass looks great, his jumpshot is excellent and we are going to need his scoring desperately now that Jeff Green is gone.
I'm happy with the bench so far. Maybe one more scorer on the wing. If we do get someone I want them to be able to add offense to the bench- not a big body with no talent or a wing who can just defend- We have a few of those already.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2011, 08:08:22 AM by chambers »
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quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.

Re: My observations 2nd and 3rd unit:
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2011, 08:23:16 AM »

Offline 2short

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hhmmmm
bass- better player than davis big upgrade, great on fast breaks but needs to work on defense, has the better athletics than davis but seems to zone out on d at times
sasha-fine as 3rd string sf, guy is comfortable not playing for games then can come in and help (scal like)
marquis-awesome! smooth as silk
wilcox-big body who will rebound, hasn't shown me that much though
bradley-wip, I'd have moore ahead on depth chart and our sg posistion is weak after ray
Dooling- great pick up!
Brown- chicken with head cut off, bring back lasme for this spot
Moore-plays like a vet, like what I've seen, could be an upgrade over delonte (sorry)
Stiesma-keeper, pontential & size
JJ-haven't seen enough of him, is doc comfortable he is good and is giving other guys burn? or has he only got small minutes because the team doesn't think he'd ready?
other guys are just to have practice

Re: My observations 2nd and 3rd unit:
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2011, 08:57:25 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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JJ looks lost on both ends of the floor. Clearly needs lots of work.

Moore will carve himself some minutes because of his shooting ability and poise, even though his defensive ability is mediocre. I'm quietly optimistic about him.

Bass' defense last night was pretty horrid. Guy was two steps slow on everything.
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Re: My observations 2nd and 3rd unit:
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2011, 12:07:22 PM »

Offline celts55

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hhmmmm
bass- better player than davis big upgrade, great on fast breaks but needs to work on defense, has the better athletics than davis but seems to zone out on d at times
sasha-fine as 3rd string sf, guy is comfortable not playing for games then can come in and help (scal like)
marquis-awesome! smooth as silk
wilcox-big body who will rebound, hasn't shown me that much though
bradley-wip, I'd have moore ahead on depth chart and our sg posistion is weak after ray
Dooling- great pick up!
Brown- chicken with head cut off, bring back lasme for this spot
Moore-plays like a vet, like what I've seen, could be an upgrade over delonte (sorry)
Stiesma-keeper, pontential & size
JJ-haven't seen enough of him, is doc comfortable he is good and is giving other guys burn? or has he only got small minutes because the team doesn't think he'd ready?
other guys are just to have practice

Davis had 18 points last night. Just saying.

Re: My observations 2nd and 3rd unit:
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2011, 12:26:30 PM »

Offline LeoMoreno

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First of all, Big Baby Davis scored a lot vs Bosh last year too. Whoever plays vs him this year won't have much work to do anyway, Bosh is KG's dinner.

Avery, Sasha, Marquis, maybe Wilcox and Garnett - our best defensive team. Enough attacking options, just don't let Avery shoot. But I'd be quite happy with that team. As Tommy said last night, I love watching Avery. He sux, that's true, he can't find a shot and looks lost, and what not, but on defense, he's incredible and you can't deny it. Sasha would drive any SG crazy as he has the speed to keep up with even Ellis. Hell, he'd draw 5 charges out of Monta.

JaJuan has lots of work ahead of him which can't be said for Moore. From what I've realized Doc likes to work on the players, make them Celtics players, and while teaching them to play professional basketball, implement the C's system in them. But unlike JaJuan, Moore just needs to learn our system, which is a lot harder for a PG than for a PF. I mean the dude has a killer instinct. Did he come out of Purdue as a hot shot, I don't know, but either he's really stupid and doesn't know where he is, or he's more of a younger, black version of Jason Kidd - just ready to kill! So, I'd say in a few months they'll both be ready for the first team, when KG and Jermaine will need rest and Rondo his fingers/arms/whatever cured.

The one thing I especially liked was finally, FINALLY seeing our team as a group. After 2 years of watching the team fall apart and literally hate each others, you can see Jermaine showing stuff to Stiemsma on the bench, KG slapping JaJuan on the back of the head, Ray talking to Pavlovic for like 15 minutes, and Sasha appearing to understand quite well.
Dooling, Moore, Marquis, Bass and Wilcox really click. Never expected it to happen so fast. But they really click with each others, and I see Sasha starting for Pierce on Sunday, just to have Daniels as the leader of the second unit.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2011, 12:39:31 PM by LeoMoreno »

Re: My observations 2nd and 3rd unit:
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2011, 01:17:33 PM »

Offline bbd24

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First 4 off the bench:

Bass - Huge upgrade for this team over Baby because of two things....Rebounding, better & more accurate shooter from 15-18.

Dooling - Huge upgrade at backup PG that's been missing since Rondo has arrived.

Wilcox - Vastly underrated so far by the celticblog crew.  Great pickup and solid veteran big.  Can rebound & put the ball in the basket.

Daniels - Solid role player backing up the 2 or 3.

Rookie to watch:

Moore - Solid all around game.  Could push for minutes easily at backup 2.

Developmental projects:

Johnson - Needs to add some pounds, but talent is obviously there.  2-4 years down the line, could have something.  Need to see more.

Bradley - Still only 21 whose talent is off the charts.  Still 2-3 years out from making an impact on a vet team like the Celtics.  Ready defensively.

Re: My observations 2nd and 3rd unit:
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2011, 01:49:59 PM »

Offline TA9

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My observations 2nd and 3rd units:

BBass – not quite BBD on team defense but will do just fine

ABradley – clock is ticking, still needs lots of work, has the potential to drive me crazy

GBrown –  why is he getting minutes?

MDaniels – does his job perfectly, glad he is back

KDooling – good backup

JJJohnson – better than I thought

ETMoore – a keeper, will challenge KDooling for mins

SPavlovic – better defender than given credit

GStiemsma – better than I thought, might challenge CWilcox for mins

CWilcox – a hacking machine, will drive me crazy

MSweetney – scratch

JSampson – who is this guy?


Bass - Agreed
Bradley - His offense will come some day. Definitely NBA ready defense.
Brown- Doesnt produce anything on Offense (He will likely hit the open shot if he gets it) But he has played fairly great defense.
Daniels - Agreed
Dooling - Agreed
Johnson - I dont think that he has shown us everything he can on the court
Moore - May end up as the steal of the draft.
Pavlovic - A scrub we coulda got a better player
Greg S - Has surprised me alot
Wilcox - Agreed
Sweetney and Sampson - Will be waived :D
Jack of all trades, master of none.

Re: My observations 2nd and 3rd unit:
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2011, 02:38:28 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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I'm worried that Doc doesn't have confidence in J.Johnson.

I don't know if Doc lacks confidence in Johnson, but I believe he feels obligated to play Bass and Wilcox ahead of Johnson because they make more money.  Even if he likes Johnson, he's going to make him wait his turn unless he represents a large allocation of resources, such as a high lottery pick, or he really is awesome.
"The worst thing that ever happened in sports was sports radio, and the internet is sports radio on steroids with lower IQs.” -- Brian Burke, former Toronto Maple Leafs senior adviser, at the 2013 MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference

Re: My observations 2nd and 3rd unit:
« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2011, 02:57:30 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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I'm worried that Doc doesn't have confidence in J.Johnson.

I don't know if Doc lacks confidence in Johnson, but I believe he feels obligated to play Bass and Wilcox ahead of Johnson because they make more money.  Even if he likes Johnson, he's going to make him wait his turn unless he represents a large allocation of resources, such as a high lottery pick, or he really is awesome.
What has Johnson shown to earn any sort of confidence at this point?!
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: My observations 2nd and 3rd unit:
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2011, 04:34:18 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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JJ looks lost on both ends of the floor. Clearly needs lots of work.

Moore will carve himself some minutes because of his shooting ability and poise, even though his defensive ability is mediocre. I'm quietly optimistic about him.

Bass' defense last night was pretty horrid. Guy was two steps slow on everything.

JJ looked pretty good defensively last night.  He battled Bargnani well down the stretch of that game.  Toronto tried to post Bargs up and couldn't take advantage of JaJuan. 

He runs the floor incredibly quickly and he looks like he has the length and the lateral quickness to be a good pick and roll defender. 

Offensively, he struggled a little, but he got robbed on a sweet offensive rebound and turn around put back move where the zebras gave him the rookie treatment and called him for a walk.  He didn't hit any jumpers in pre-season, but based on his work at Purdue and what I've heard Doc say about him, I'll trust that he'll make some of those.

All in all, based on the very limited amount I've seen, I'm really pleased with JaJuan Johnson so far. 
DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: My observations 2nd and 3rd unit:
« Reply #13 on: December 22, 2011, 09:25:01 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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What has Johnson shown to earn any sort of confidence at this point?!

I don't know, but it is possible he's been doing the right things in practices that we don't see.
"The worst thing that ever happened in sports was sports radio, and the internet is sports radio on steroids with lower IQs.” -- Brian Burke, former Toronto Maple Leafs senior adviser, at the 2013 MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference

Re: My observations 2nd and 3rd unit:
« Reply #14 on: December 22, 2011, 10:23:18 PM »

Offline greenpride32

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Unfortunately this is where we will really miss Jeff Green. He put up 15-16/game on teams with Durant and Westbrook. It's going to be another year where our 2nd unit lacks scoring punch.  I fear this team is going to be having lots of 80-85 point nights and the defense isn't going to be able to hold oppenents down to that number (same issue as late in the season last year).