Why do elite players NOT want to play for the Celtics?

[PierceMVP08]

Being from New England, thirty minutes outside of Boston, it annoys the hell out of me that people would mention race as a reason why millionaire athletes won't come to Boston.  Bill Russell was a God in Boston from 1956 on.  

Are you sure about that?

Nevertheless, as a result of repeated racial bigotry, Russell refused to respond to fan acclaim or friendship from his neighbors, thinking it was insincere and hypocritical. He decided that since the world hadn't given him anything, he would give the world nothing in return. This attitude contributed to his legendary bad rapport with fans and journalists.[27] He alienated Celtics fans by saying, "You owe the public the same it owes you, nothing! I refuse to smile and be nice to the kiddies."[55] This supported the opinion that Russell (who was the highest paid Celtic) was egotistical, paranoid and hypocritical, and even the FBI described Russell in his file as "an arrogant Negro who won't sign autographs for white children".[55]

The already hostile atmosphere between Russell and Boston hit its apex when vandals broke into his house, covered the walls with racist graffiti, damaged his trophies and defecated in the beds.[55] In response, Russell described Boston as a "flea market of racism".[79] After his retirement, he described the Boston press as corrupt and racist; in response, Boston sports journalist Larry Claflin claimed that Russell himself was the real racist.[80]

  (from Wiki)

Bill Russell was a long way from a "god" in Boston when he played there.  All of the veneration he gets now came decades after he retired.

I know, right? Bill Russell a God from 1956 on. LOL
Listen, I know we're all fellow greenteamers here but you guys makes the rest of us look bad when you say patently false and stupid crap like this and defend a racist history that should be confronted, not swept under the rug.

Historically, yes Boston has a racist past...does it still exist?

I am not so sure that it does any mroe than any other city in the US.

It is NOT more than any other city in the U.S.

[MaxAMillion]

I wouldn't come to Boston either. What exactly will they have in 2012? Rondo? What else? The starters are too old and there are no guarantees that Ainge is bringing in some great FA next year. I wouldn't want to risk it. I would rather play for the Clippers with Griifin than Boston (plus you get the warm weather).

[nickagneta]

I think people who discount the city, its weather, its atmosphere, and its nightlife and say its all about money are missing a very important point. The players who are superstars are going to get their money wherever they go.

KG, Pierce and Allen are all making huge money. So is Rondo. It could even be said that Allen and Rondo took less money to stay here, so clearly, it really is not all about the money. If players are taking less money to stay here and a superstar will make max or near max money whether they play here or New York or Minnesota or Miami or Memphis, then clearly there are other reasons why people choose other cities rather than Boston.

Younger superstars, especially ones that are single, want a large city where they can have a bachelor's life out on the town and they don't want to be going home from the clubs and restaurants at 2:00 AM. Boston shuts down early. The suburbs even earlier. There are no gentleman's clubs in the city any longer and the dance clubs market themselves to the Boston college students and not the celebrities. Getting great VIP treatment with great VIP privacy in Boston in the club scene is very difficult.

Also, Massachusetts has one of the highest state income tax structures in the nation. While all NBA players have to pay taxes in any place they play basketball, when you are playing 41 games a year in Massachusetts and residing in Massachusetts for over half the year, you are going to pay a higher amount taxes. Agents will make their clients well aware of the areas where taxes will play a part in what they actually take home.

Do I need to discuss the weather, the hassle of living in a cold weather environment, the hassle of driving in the snow, ice, and freezing rain and cold temperatures? Come on. Do you really think this doesn't make a difference, especially to those players that grew up in their youth in warm weather areas of the country? Who the hell want to put up with blizzards and 3-5 months where the high temperature is less than 30 degrees when you are a young multimillionaire and can choose to play anywhere you want?

Lastly, I am not sure race plays a huge difference anymore but clearly, Boston is not a city with a huge African American community and has an even smaller affluent African American community. While I think most modern athletes fit in well just about anywhere, I do believe there are some black NBA athletes that would feel more comfortable in cities with much larger black communities and clubs and restaurants geared toward that market, of which there are very few in Boston, especially in the wealthier suburbs where they are non-existent.

NBA superstars want to win but they want to win and have all the comforts and notoriety that the other NBA superstars have. They have hung with LeBron and Shaq and Kobe and Melo and Amar'e and they want what those guys have. They want the money, the want the lifestyle, they want the clothes and the jewels and the adoration of the crowds and the VIP treatment. Boston is a difficult market to get all that.

I really think Boston is a better market for the family man professional athlete.

[Roy H.]

I was very offended by Roy H qualifying Boston's racist history as "perceived."

Get over it.  I used the term "perceived" because the perception sometimes suggests that the entire city was racist.  I'm not going to put that stereotype on millions of people, many of whom weren't racist at all.  If you're very offended, I guess I'm sorry that I didn't stereotype and paint an entire city with a broad brush, as you would have preferred.

[ACF]

Move the Lakers back to Minny, move the Clippers to Seattle, move the Warriors back to Philly and the Kings back to Rochester and let's see what these spoiled brats would have to say about that.

I love it!

And let's decide that Alaska needs a team, and, to be ironic, send the Heat there!

move the clippers back to buffalo!

I miss the Sonics.

[Tgro]

Can you show me where these players publicly list Boston as one of the Cities they want to be traded to???

First of all, it is obvious that you are not familiar with the concept "burden of proof." But nevermind that.

Can you show me any place where a player publicly lists cities they want to be traded to? Once again, anonymous sources don't count. The only times we ever hear anything about a "list" anyway are when trade talks START between a team, and ESPN reports, "Clippers on Chris Paul's list." When have we ever actually been given a list?

Still waiting for SOMEONE to provide any evidence of Boston being "shunned" by elite players.

Why do we have to play by those rules? You don't have any proof that elite players WANT to play for the Celtics either. Why do anonymous sources not count? Sure, they can be fabricated. But there are currently no fabrications from anonymous sources that these players actually want to play for the Celtics either.

Instead we've "heard" through "sources" that players want to go (to a small list) and Boston is not included. And we've also have "heard" through "sources" that if forced to go to Boston, said player would not "re-sign" with us. We've also "heard" through "sources" that said players would "prefer" to go to a short list of cities. (Boston not among them). I personally have not heard through anonymous sources that said players WANT to come to Boston. So if you want to play like this. Show me the proof that they DO want to come to Boston!

There are over 70 responses here contributing why elite players appear to have reasons not to want to play for the Celtics. Yet you debunk it because you don't have any proof from the players themselves. It's not often you see players blatantly bad mouth a city and say they refuse to go certain places. That's just bad PR. Instead the actions and the "leaks" speak louder. Not having players caught on camera or microphone saying "Don't send me to Boston" is just an easy out for you to poo-poo this thread.   

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

Theres a little thing I like to call "the Lebron clique". That being lebron, chris paul, dwyne wade, dwight howard (to an extent), etc... These guys want to play in a flashy city where they will be able to hang out with Jay Z and their rapper buddies. Boston just isn't one of those cities and is not percieved as particularly cool.
To be honest with you I feel like if you told most people, they would be suprised that Boston has any residents that aern't irish  or italian. Boston just isn't considered cool by alot of folks.

Good point. And to be honest, I don't want guys like that playing for Boston. They can take their entourages and get lost.

[Green Hell]

I was very offended by Roy H qualifying Boston's racist history as "perceived."

Get over it.  I used the term "perceived" because the perception sometimes suggests that the entire city was racist.  I'm not going to put that stereotype on millions of people, many of whom weren't racist at all.  If you're very offended, I guess I'm sorry that I didn't stereotype and paint an entire city with a broad brush, as you would have preferred.

Boston's "perceived" history of racism is as Germany's "perceived" history of genocide.

Holocaust deniers can make the same point about painting with broad strokes and picking/choosing facts but at the end of the day it is what it is. It's intellectually and morally insulting to suggest, as you had, otherwise.

[RyNye]

Why do we have to play by those rules?

You mean ... the basic rules of logic?

You don't have any proof that elite players WANT to play for the Celtics either.

You really don't understand burden of proof, do you?

Why do anonymous sources not count? Sure, they can be fabricated.

Congratulations, you answered your own question!

But there are currently no fabrications from anonymous sources that these players actually want to play for the Celtics either.

So ... nobody is lying about wanting to come to the Celtics, so nobody does? Ever?

Instead we've "heard" through "sources" that players want to go (to a small list) and Boston is not included. And we've also have "heard" through "sources" that if forced to go to Boston, said player would not "re-sign" with us. We've also "heard" through "sources" that said players would "prefer" to go to a short list of cities. (Boston not among them). I personally have not heard through anonymous sources that said players WANT to come to Boston. So if you want to play like this. Show me the proof that they DO want to come to Boston!

NOT A SINGLE NBA PLAYER HAS SPECIFICALLY SAID THEY DO NOT WANT TO PLAY HERE. Until one does, it is not reasonable to assume there is some league-wide boycott of the city and the team. Indeed, all of this sources are about leverage during negotiations; we don't know who said them, and as thus, they are not reliable indicators of what the player wants. And where are these mythical lists? Someone please show me a list that a player made of cities they want to play in, because I would love to see it.

Seriously, do you think that Chris Paul has a little sticky note saying 1-Los Angeles, 2-New York, etc. etc? No. Elite players want to play for a winning team that can give them a big contract. Before 2008 Boston was not a winning team, and after 2008 has not been in a situation where we can give out big contracts. We have to wait until 2012 to see what how free agency responds to Boston before we can claim that elite players are mysteriously boycotting a team that averaged 58+ wins that last few seasons.

There are over 70 responses here contributing why elite players appear to have reasons not to want to play for the Celtics.

So far this thread is conjecture and largely inaccurate arguments about the racial landscape of Boston. Not exactly a reliable source, is it?

Yet you debunk it because you don't have any proof from the players themselves. It's not often you see players blatantly bad mouth a city and say they refuse to go certain places.

And yet this thread is claiming that is EXACTLY what players are doing! Welcome to my page.

Instead the actions

What actions? In a year that we have no cap space and no real trade assets no big free agents came here? Can you name a single instance in recent league history where a player has clamored to go a team that DIDN'T HAVE EITHER THE CAP SPACE OR THE TRADE ASSETS to acquire them? Honestly, this stuff isn't that difficult. David West is an elite player, and he WANTED to come here. But money came first, as it does for 99.999% of people, including basketball players. If next year when we have the cap space and still can't get free agents, THEN you can make the argument that elite players don't want to play here. But it is incredibly unreasonable to assume that players are going to come out loud and strong about wanting to play here in a year where we can't sign or trade for them.

and the "leaks" speak louder.

It is truly amazing that you keep going on about these leaks. If that's how we are going to play, remember after the 2010 finals there was the leak that Dwight Howard said he would love to play with Rondo and Doc Rivers? There, argument over!

Not having players caught on camera or microphone saying "Don't send me to Boston" is just an easy out for you to poo-poo this thread.    

And not having players clamoring to come to Boston in a year where it isn't conceivable for a free agent to sign here or be traded here is an easy way for the typically knee-jerk overreactions of this forum to cry about the end of times. Seriously, people here go crazy over the most minor perceived slights.


Okay, I am going to spell this out a third time, just to make sure you get it.

Before 2008, players wouldn't want to come to Boston, because we were excessively mediocre. Not a contender. Elite players want a contender.

After 2008, we have only had room for role players/sixth men, that kind of thing, due to our money being tied up in the Big 4. Elite players want a healthy contract (of course, we are ignoring that Shaq wanted to come play here, but that's besides the fact ...)

There is no reason to assume that elite players are mysteriously boycotting a winning franchise this year, because we are not in a situation where we can afford to make big signings, or big trades (everyone in the league knew Ainge wasn't giving away any of the Big 3, so our assets were limited).

And once again, you have NO PROOF OF YOUR ASSERTIONS. Whining that I can't disprove them  doesn't change that fact, and is as logically tenable an argument as saying that a Flying Spaghetti Monster exists just because I can't prove it doesn't.

But, hey, if you really insist on arguing this point without proof, you win. In fact, Dr. Jerry Buss has paid $1 million to every NBA player to never come to Boston, and Danny Ainge is a plant. He won us one ring to get our confidence, then he is planning to drive the franchise into the ground. Then become GM of the Patriots and do the same thing. Why not? You can't prove there ISN'T a conspiracy, neener neener. 

[Greenbean]

I was very offended by Roy H qualifying Boston's racist history as "perceived."

Get over it.  I used the term "perceived" because the perception sometimes suggests that the entire city was racist.  I'm not going to put that stereotype on millions of people, many of whom weren't racist at all.  If you're very offended, I guess I'm sorry that I didn't stereotype and paint an entire city with a broad brush, as you would have preferred.

Boston's "perceived" history of racism is as Germany's "perceived" history of genocide.

Holocaust deniers can make the same point about painting with broad strokes and picking/choosing facts but at the end of the day it is what it is. It's intellectually and morally insulting to suggest, as you had, otherwise.

Oh my goodness!

We are talking about now! The here and now!

Boston used to be racist. So did many other cities in America. I dont think the point of Roy's comment was to insinuate that Boston really wasnt racist back in the 60's and 70's.


Boston is NOT any more racist these days than any other place in this country. I can guarantee that.


Your stats about the white population prove nothing whatsoever.


Black athletes have no problem coming to this city.

No one is trying to cover up Boston's past, you are missing the point.



If the modern black athlete was worried about every city's racist history, no NBA teams in the south and midwest would have any black players.

[dtrader]

I personally only think racial diversity is important to prospective athletes in as far as it extends into the nightlife and city culture.  I never intended to support the idea that they wouldnt come because of overt racism.  It's just that Boston FEELS far less diverse than NY, NJ, LA, etc.  The nightlife similarly lacks diversity.  I myself encountered far more overt racism in Massachusetts than I have since moving to NY/NJ, but I agree that there are pockets of it everywhere.  I dont think that will effect an athletes decisions though.  It's just the difference between walking down a street in Boston and passing 3 irish pubs and a local sports bar versus walking down a street in NY, and passing 2 famous Hip hop clubs and a spanish restaurant.  One environment just appeals more to them.

[Celtics18]

  There are players out there that want to be a Celtic.  They're not the players most fans fantasize about, but good players who play with heart and respect history.  Players that keep their head down, and work hard, and put the team above themselves.  We are lucky to have four all stars like that.  We got a few role players like that this year.  Hopefully we will get another star or two next year.  There won't be Dwight Howard or Chris Paul coming here, and I for one prefer it that way.  

Respect.

[gotjoker?]

Personally, if I'm an elite player, I'm more concern about the attitudes of the city's people than the city itself as far as the cost of living and the benefits of living there.

This is also about having patience if you're young.  Rarely, do you see a young player want to be a part of the turnaround.  No, they want to be a part of something that is already there.  Super teams aren't good for the NBA, in my opinion.  This precludes Boston since Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett didn't map out their path to Boston beforehand.  That is, it wasn't premeditated...

[LooseCannon]

To get away from race and move back to weather...

It's not necessarily the temperature.  I think I would be happy if I could move and never have to drive in the snow again.  I know people who have moved to take a job that might pay less to avoid it.  It just takes one bad accident or being stranded in a snowstorm once to turn someone completely off of ever living in a cold weather city if they an avoid it.

[j804]

Anybody think its more simple and our guys could have burned some bridges over the years??

Our identity image etc across the league the past years we arent the friendliest that's for sure.