Hollinger on Baby for Bass deal

[Potapenko Boxout]

I didn't see this anywhere so please forgive me if it's already somewhere. for all of his PER talk, Hollinger really isn't that bad.

"This trade is basically a good organization running circles around a mediocre one, and in a year it's going to become obvious what a steal Boston got with this deal.

Faced with a situation in which the Celtics didn't want to lose an asset (Davis) but still wanted to preserve cap space for the summer of 2012, the Celtics did the only thing they could -- sign-and-trade him for a one-year rental. Bass technically is signed through 2012-13, but he has an opt-out after this season, and since he makes only $4 million per annum he's likely to take the out.

We don't know the details on Davis' contract yet, but I suspect it's four years, $26.05 million. The biggest clue is that the only reason he would go for it is if it paid him more than the midlevel exception. With the Magic using the amnesty clause on Gilbert Arenas to put themselves under the luxury tax, they can take back 150 percent of Bass' pay plus $100,000, which would be a deal starting at $6.1 million. Add in 4.5 percent raises and the full deal is likely four years, $26.05 million.

For his one-year rental in Beantown, Bass will be perfect as a first big man off the bench. While he isn't on Davis' level as a team defender, he's strong enough to play as an undersized 5 just as Davis did. And offensively, these guys aren't even close. Bass and Davis both shoot a lot of midrange jumpers; the difference is that Bass makes them. He has had a TS% of 56 for four straight seasons and averaged over 17.0 points per 40 minutes the past three.

Although he's a good team defender who willingly takes charges and can defend post players, I consider Davis one of the league's most overrated players. Offensively, he's really not very good -- a pick-and-pop 4 who mostly shoots 2-point jumpers and mostly misses them. Davis' true shooting percentages the past three years are 50.2, 50.0 and 49.9 -- which is terrible for a power forward -- and he scores and assists at a fairly low rate.

So basically, the Celtics got a better player who makes less money while preserving all their cap flexibility, and the Magic get another iffy contract. About the only benefit to Orlando is that Davis is friends with Dwight Howard, but we saw how far that got the Hornets when they traded for Jarrett Jack."

[ChapelHillCeltic]

Wow...I didn't think the difference was that marked.  If this is true, then we got a steal.

I don't think Big Baby is overrated, but he certainly doesn't "get it".

And he wasn't worth the new contract.

I have hope for Brandon Bass.  He's definitely in better shape than Big Baby!

[Chris]

I think Hollinger is underrating Davis as a player (and he should be even better, now that he is in better shape), but he nails it from the cap side.  This move was a slam dunk for the C's, and another very questionable signing for the Magic. 

[LooseCannon]

I think Hollinger is underrating Davis as a player

Hollinger's description of Davis on offense is pretty factual and number's based.  He takes a lot of 2-point jumpers and misses more than he makes them, his true shooting percentage is below average for a power forward, and his scoring and assist rates are low.  But Hollinger does rate him as a plus on defense and he doesn't being up rebounding.  Good team defender with inefficient scoring who is a better defender than Bass but a downgrade on offense seems like an accurate description of Big Baby.

Think about this....Ainge traded for a player signed to a contract that is below market value, such that he is likely to not use his player option.  Since he is making $4 million, that means he could probably get more than the MLE.  If so, the Celtics have acquired his Bird rights, so they can out-bid teams that have only the MLE.  That means they have a monetary edge on most teams if they want to retain him and they have the ability to give him a contract bigger than the MLE in a sign-and-trade (although still subject to base-year compensation).

[FrDrake]

I think Hollinger is underrating Davis as a player (and he should be even better, now that he is in better shape), but he nails it from the cap side.  This move was a slam dunk for the C's, and another very questionable signing for the Magic.  

I also agree with Hollinger's take on Davis and in fact he may overrating Davis on D since Baby obviously benefited from playing with veterans on a defensive oriented team.  Now SVG also preaches defense but without KG, Doc and Pierce screaming at him, and without the motivation of earning a new contract, I bet he will be taking FAR FEWER charges next year than he did this year and his team defense may suffer too.

[wolfhead18]

I think Hollinger is underrating Davis as a player (and he should be even better, now that he is in better shape), but he nails it from the cap side.  This move was a slam dunk for the C's, and another very questionable signing for the Magic.  

I also agree with Hollinger's take on Davis and in fact he may overrating Davis on D since Baby obviously benefited from playing with veterans on a defensive oriented team.  Now SVG also preaches defense but without KG, Doc and Pierce screaming at him, and without the motivation of earning a new contract, I bet he will be taking FAR FEWER charges next year than he did this year and his team defense may suffer too.

yeah he was playing with KG and in a good system, but look who he will be playing next to now... i think hollinger underrates players because he looks at stats only, no intangibles whatsoever. Baby is a solid player, good defender, but lets his head get in the way too often.  That said, I think pairing him with Dwight will be a really good fit if he can play like he was last year pre-injury.

[Kuberski33]

There's a big difference between the Davis of last year, the BBD of his previous years in a Celtics uniform.  If the earlier version of Davis had been around the 2nd half of last season, I think he'd still be a Celtic.  

Bottom line he became someone you couldn't count on....so I'm with Hollinger in that sense....great deal for the C's.  As for the Magic they're hoping the BBD of 2 years ago (remember he was great in that Orlando series) reappears.  Based on his off court behavior and the way he let himself slip on the court last season...I seriously doubt that's going to happen.

[Potapenko Boxout]

There's a big difference between the Davis of last year, the BBD of his previous years in a Celtics uniform.  If the earlier version of Davis had been around the 2nd half of last season, I think he'd still be a Celtic.  

I think Baby was gone regardless. He was in the 6th man race for the majority of last season.


I've never seen a player tail off as much as he did during the playoffs. He looked like he should not have even been in the league.

[RayCeltic]

Did any body see How Jacked davis is now SMH He really worked out over the summer i wounder how he plays and if he stays in shape from now on. I love the trade for bass


http://www.redsarmy.com/home/2011/12/where-the-hell-did-super-jacked-glen-davis-come-from.html

[footey]

Hollinger is so arrogant.

[Edgar]

but this is true...

the difference is that Bass makes them.

[LooseCannon]

i think hollinger underrates players because he looks at stats only, no intangibles whatsoever.

I think people underrate Hollinger because they think he only looks at numbers.  Hollinger clearly acknowledges Davis has value on defense, something that has historically been difficult to accurately assess with statistics.  Some people also tend to overrate intangibles because they hate math geeks.

[Evantime34]

I am torn because I hate Hollinger but he did say something that makes me happy.

[Fafnir]

Did any body see How Jacked davis is now SMH He really worked out over the summer i wounder how he plays and if he stays in shape from now on. I love the trade for bass


http://www.redsarmy.com/home/2011/12/where-the-hell-did-super-jacked-glen-davis-come-from.html

He's flexing in one picture and relaxed in another. He's not noticable more muscular in my opinion.

[LooseCannon]

Also, pinstripes are supposed to be slimming.