Celtics should rebuild now

[twinbree]

Why do we need to rebuild now? We have cap space after the season and possibly two first round picks in the teens. Rebuilding is a long and arduous process and I'm in no hurry to start. I'd rather try and contend with this core for the last time then start building a new core. Trading for pieces now that are not going to help us win championships in the long-term and will take away our financial flexibility is not my idea of a good rebuilding strategy.

[PosImpos]

Why do we need to rebuild now? We have cap space after the season and possibly two first round picks in the teens. Rebuilding is a long and arduous process and I'm in no hurry to start. I'd rather try and contend with this core for the last time then start building a new core. Trading for pieces now that are not going to help us win championships in the long-term and will take away our financial flexibility is not my idea of a good rebuilding strategy.

I tend to agree.  Though I don't think this team will really contend this year, it seems to make more sense to have one more competitive run, maybe win a playoff series -- or two even.

However, if the team is really struggling by the mid-way point, hovering around .500 and looking like a long shot to be anything but one and done in the playoffs, I think Danny should seriously consider any offer on the table that would get back any kind of useful player or asset (even a mid to late first) that could aid in the rebuilding process after this season.

[ianboyextreme]

I think we end up renouncing KG and Ray  if they decide to come back for the vet min awesome.

Next we make max offers to one of Gordon, Hibbert or Love.

We try to pry a big salaried player from a rebuilding team for a first and a a huge TPE. Some Targets could include Josh Smith, Al Jefferson.

Best Possible Outcome:
1. Rondo
2. Gordon
3. Green
4. Smith
5. Maybe a bulked up JJJ or Bass

That team would be young athletic and pretty good.

We can't keep Rondo, Pierce, the rights to Green, and the rest of the roster holds and rookie contracts and have the room to offer a max deal AND trade for someone without giving up something in return.  Not enough cap space.  As is, it will be close on the Celtics having the room to offer a full max deal as Pierce and Rondo alone will be close to half of the cap.  The recent and future first rounders (2 picks this summer, Bradley, and Johnson) add in another 5 million.  Bass has a player option at 4 million (he may not exercise it but the C's would have to give up his rights to get out from under his cap hold).  For every empty spot you add in another 500k.  So the Celtics are looking at roughly 35-40 million on the books and that is if Bass leaves and they give up on all free agents.

So all this talk about how we are going to have major cap space is just a made up myth? Ive read that we are supposed to have 30 million in cap space this offseason. Dont see how they could be that off in their calculations.

[ianboyextreme]

I'm on board with this. Rondo and Ray are the most easily moveable pieces, and Danny should start there.

If that Indy deal of Collison, Hibbert, and George is a legitimate one, start there. Do it meow.

Can I just say that if Indy had any interest in trading Collison, George, and Hibbert for Rondo, Chris Paul would be a Celtic right now.

Just had to point that out.  Carry on.

I don't know what to make of this. It was never really pointed out whether or not Indy had interest here. It was floated, and the problem (in the press) was always on the NO side, not the Indy side.

My point is, that deal gets the trade done for NOH.  Unfortunately, the reported deal offered by Indy was Collison and Hansbrough for Rondo, a far cry from this godfather deal that is being dreamed about. 

I really don't see any way Indy would be giving up their starting PG (who some would argue is not too far off from Rondo), their young starting center, and George, who they absolutely love, and who has been rumored to be edging Granger out of town.

  You think Collison's close to the player Rondo is?

Ummm, close is a relative term.  But I don't think he is so far away that you would offer a center, still on his rookie contract, who averaged 12.7 points and 7.5 rebounds and 1.8 blocks, PLUS a blue chip wing prospect for him.

I would say Rondo is a second tier PG, and Collison is third tier right now (although I think Collison will have a breakout year now that he has a PF who can run the pick and roll).

But the point is, Indy was never giving up that much value for Rondo, regardless of what you think of Collison.  Hibbert and George were both dealbreakers for them.

Dude, what does this guy have to do to shut yall up. I wasnt going to comment on this but when you write that hes a second tier point guard i just dont really understand what games youre watching.
He came out and dropped 31 points and 13 assists on opening night, and then 22 and 12 the second. Pure ignorance on your part man, thats rediculous.
Enough of the "Rondo is a second class point guard" talk, it makes yall sound stupid. Hes top 5 without a doubt and theres not many arguements to be made against that.

[ianboyextreme]

I think we end up renouncing KG and Ray  if they decide to come back for the vet min awesome.

Next we make max offers to one of Gordon, Hibbert or Love.

We try to pry a big salaried player from a rebuilding team for a first and a a huge TPE. Some Targets could include Josh Smith, Al Jefferson.

Best Possible Outcome:
1. Rondo
2. Gordon
3. Green
4. Smith
5. Maybe a bulked up JJJ or Bass

That team would be young athletic and pretty good.

We can't keep Rondo, Pierce, the rights to Green, and the rest of the roster holds and rookie contracts and have the room to offer a max deal AND trade for someone without giving up something in return.  Not enough cap space.  As is, it will be close on the Celtics having the room to offer a full max deal as Pierce and Rondo alone will be close to half of the cap.  The recent and future first rounders (2 picks this summer, Bradley, and Johnson) add in another 5 million.  Bass has a player option at 4 million (he may not exercise it but the C's would have to give up his rights to get out from under his cap hold).  For every empty spot you add in another 500k.  So the Celtics are looking at roughly 35-40 million on the books and that is if Bass leaves and they give up on all free agents.

So all this talk about how we are going to have major cap space is just a made up myth? Ive read that we are supposed to have 30 million in cap space this offseason. Dont see how they could be that off in their calculations.

I like this except for a few things. I dont know if i would sign Smith. Too much money that could be reserved later on. Gordon- definetly should try to get him. And I would think paul would still be on the team.

[Moranis]

Why do we need to rebuild now? We have cap space after the season and possibly two first round picks in the teens. Rebuilding is a long and arduous process and I'm in no hurry to start. I'd rather try and contend with this core for the last time then start building a new core. Trading for pieces now that are not going to help us win championships in the long-term and will take away our financial flexibility is not my idea of a good rebuilding strategy.

the sooner you start the sooner you can back to being a legit contender something the Celtics are not.  Also, if you wait until the summer and you don't get a marquee free agent, then you are left with no expiring contracts and a terrible team with no shot.  You start now because you have three expiring contracts of various sizes on players that might put teams over the top this year and thus you could get some value for them. 

It is apparent the Celtics will not win the title this season.  It is apparent that the Celtics won't even be a realistic contender to win the title this season.  If you have an old team that can't compete you need to start over.  Period.  It should always be about doing what is necessary to win a title.  That is all that should matter to a sports team.  The Celtics are not doing that unless they start trading players for draft picks, young players, etc.  The time is now.

[celticinorlando]

this year is nothing more than a farewell tour for KG, JO and ray (although I think Ray should be brought back)..they are not factors in the East. this summer will be very very interesting

[snowball]

KG and Ray look pretty darn good out there.
they are not the problem.

[kozlodoev]

KG and Ray look pretty darn good out there.
they are not the problem.

KG looks good?! What games have you been watching?!  

Up to this point, in a small sample, Garnett is playing more minutes than last season, but averaging 3 points and 2 rebounds less. Also he's shooting a pretty pedestrian (for him) .450 from the floor.

Sure, 4 blocks and 9 assists are not too shabby, but please. Garnett looks like he aged 10 years over one summer. Major red flags there.

[Jon]

Still too early.  Doc wasn't even trying to win last night's game with the way he played the starters. 

I'm upset.  However, let's wait to we have Pierce back before we do any knee-jerk reaction moves. 

[Evantime34]

KG and Ray look pretty darn good out there.
they are not the problem.

KG looks good?! What games have you been watching?!  

Up to this point, in a small sample, Garnett is playing more minutes than last season, but averaging 3 points and 2 rebounds less. Also he's shooting a pretty pedestrian (for him) .450 from the floor.

Sure, 4 blocks and 9 assists are not too shabby, but please. Garnett looks like he aged 10 years over one summer. Major red flags there.

Doc said that KG usually has trouble in the first weeks of training camp, since the season is so young I'm praying that this is why he's playing poorly.
"He usually has pretty poor camps to begin with -- he plays hard, but not well."-Doc

It's not just his inability/reluctance to score in the paint. It's that he isn't really anchoring our defense anymore. Pierce is a big reason why we've been lacking in the defense department (as well as Ray getting slower) but KG not being able to completely shut off guys in help defense is what's hurting us the most imo.

[kozlodoev]

I don't know what we've been lacking in the defense department, but it's not just how much points we're giving them, it's how.

The successful Celtics teams of the recent past would take away the easy hoops, and make you beat them with a midrange jump-shot. With a hand in your face (on a good day), or somewhat open (on a bad day). It didn't always work, but it always gave us a chance.

The first three games this season? It's been a layup galore under our basket all night. It's just painful to watch.

[Jon]

I don't know what we've been lacking in the defense department, but it's not just how much points we're giving them, it's how.

The successful Celtics teams of the recent past would take away the easy hoops, and make you beat them with a midrange jump-shot. With a hand in your face (on a good day), or somewhat open (on a bad day). It didn't always work, but it always gave us a chance.

The first three games this season? It's been a layup galore under our basket all night. It's just painful to watch.

It's been a problem.  But I think it can be remedied.

I think Ray and KG will be better when Pierce comes back.  They won't have to shoulder as much of the burden.  I also expect JO to improve.  He was great defensively last year and he wasn't healthy.  I don't know why he's had such a slow start when he is now healthy. 

I also think with Pierce and Pietrus back, a lot will change. 

It's not just as simple as saying Pierce would've hit that shot Sasha missed or what not.  The whole dynamic of the game would change, as teams would be honing in on him, opening things up for everyone else. 

And the ripple effect to the bench too, as Sasha leaves the lineup, Pietrus goes to the bench, improves the perimeter shooting, makes us bigger (as Marquis slides from the 3 to the 2), and improves as at the 2 as Avery Bradley doesn't sniff the floor (and quite likely ends up inactive). 

Am I discouraged by the start?  Yes.  But they've had things go just about as badly as they could with the schedule, calls, and missing Pierce and Pietrus.  I'm not giving up hope yet.   

[Evantime34]

So all this talk about how we are going to have major cap space is just a made up myth? Ive read that we are supposed to have 30 million in cap space this offseason. Dont see how they could be that off in their calculations.

Looking at the hoopshype site we will have $24 MM assuming the cap stays the same before cap holds and draft picks we should have 16-18 MM. If Bass opts out that becomes 20-22 MM, plus I bet the salary cap goes up by about 2 MM which it usually does. So a conservative estimate of our cap room is 16 with the optimistic ceiling being $24 MM.

[Fafnir]

I don't know what we've been lacking in the defense department, but it's not just how much points we're giving them, it's how.

The successful Celtics teams of the recent past would take away the easy hoops, and make you beat them with a midrange jump-shot. With a hand in your face (on a good day), or somewhat open (on a bad day). It didn't always work, but it always gave us a chance.

The first three games this season? It's been a layup galore under our basket all night. It's just painful to watch.

Given the red flags you cite before with KG it could be he's finally declined enough to no longer be an elite interior help defender anymore. Even after his knee injury he's been the best defensive PF in the game keeping our team defense glued together.