Larry Bird - Rajon Rondo

[ScoobyDoo]

I have real reservations about trading Rondo because I think he is a unique and rare kind of talent. The only way I can explain it is:

1. While he's not a great shooter, he can score the ball
2. He's not big, but he can dominate the boards sometimes
3. He can dominate any given game in a number of ways
4. He may not put up Rose, Paul or Derron numbers every night, but somehow figures out a way to play level with them or better than them when matched up directly against them.
5. He may not score but get 18 assists, or 15 rebounds...

Enter Larry Bird - I think if there is any truth to the rumors that the Pacers may be involved in a three way trade that has Paul going to Boston and Rondo going to Indiana, it's because Bird knows the following about Rondo -

1. Rondo probably reminds Bird of Dennis Johnson in some sort of way.
2. Major Basketball IQ, all heart and a guy who knows how to win games.

I don't know how to say it other than, there are some guys who put up a lot of numbers and there are other guys who know how to help you win games and win championships.

In the latter category, my list of guys are:
Dennis Rodman, Joe Dumars, Dennis Johnson, Derrick Fisher and Rondo, among others...
* And I think Rondo has that quality with superior overall talent 

It's an odd, intangible quality but somehow these guys seem to make the right play at the right time.

I think Bird knows that if he can manage to pair Rondo with  Hibbert, he has his bookends for a potential championship team. You throw Paul George (who I think has superstar potential) in the middle and then add the right guys at PF and Off guard, you're going to be on your way.

Rondo may be a tough personality, but I think his role as an impact point guard is underrated. He's a pass first point in the mold of Cousy, Stockton and Kidd with a knack for making the right play at the right time that helps you win games.

I think Paul is the flashier player and yes, the better player on "paper" - but I'm not convinced on how far back Rondo is from Paul when the rubber hits the road and it's winning time. They may do it differently, but the result is all that matters.

If I was headed into a scrap and had to choose between Paul or Rondo, it would take a while for me to decide who to take.

I just wouldn't feel very comfortable betting "against" Rondo.

Anyway, I wouldn't be suprised at all if Larry Bird were very keen on acquiring Rondo in a possible three team trade, for the above mentioned reasons.

 
 

[Celtics4ever]

Rondo has "it".  Call it basketball IQ or instinct but he has " it".   What he doesn't have is a solid jumper.  For him to even play at this level with that poor of a shot speaks volumes about his ability in other areas.   Larry has not been the greatest GM but he is certainly better than Jordan.  But he hasn't exactly lit the world on fire as a GM.   

Derrick Fisher is opportunist but he rode Kobe to the top.  DJ contributed bigger games than Derrick.   Derrick has a knack for big shots I will give him that.  He is more like Bigshot Bob Horry  than the other guys.  Dumars could shoot the lights out.   Rodman was a rebounder so I am not sure if it's the same boat.   Larry and Magic had "it" though.

[Inside-Out]

Unfortunately, very, very often the "right" play is to shoot what should be a very easy, wide-open foul-line jumper.

And Rondo will avoid that play at all costs.

[33_Larry Legend_33]

Whew... When I saw the post title I was afraid this was a comparison thread.  Thankfully those fears were relieved.

[BballTim]

Unfortunately, very, very often the "right" play is to shoot what should be a very easy, wide-open foul-line jumper.

And Rondo will avoid that play at all costs.

  If you just take what the defense gives you, it would almost always be the right shot. If your general choices for defending a shot were a layup by Rondo, a jump shot by PP/RA/KG or a jump shot by Rondo, which would you rather defend? There's a reason many players (not just Rondo) are left alone on the perimeter. And, when you say Rondo avoids that play at all costs, he takes close to the average amount of long jump shots for a pg.

[j804]

from recent reports Pacers arent in negotiations anymore

[Eja117]

I don't think a Bird/Rondo pairing would work well at all. Let's just say there would be too many "cultural" differences.  Doc is a better fit for this kid.

I see the conversation going like this

Bird - Ok I'll see you at 6am for shooting on the court tomorrow.

Rondo - Wait. What? 6am? What?

B - Well yeah. Of course. Why? What do you want to do? Shoot outside at 5am? I mean I used to do that, but outside isn't as good because of wind and whatnot

R - Outside? What? What is happening here?

B - We're gonna do shooting practice right?

R - No. No. Nooooooo. I'm heading out to find some nightlife.

B - What's nightlife?

R- You know. Clubs and stuff.

B - They don't have anything like that in Indiana.

R - They don't? Screw that. I'm just gonna play Xbox and PS3 and God forbid Wii, if I have to.

B - Oh yeah. About that.  I talked to the movers and .uhh...they broke that stuff.

R - What do you mean you talked to them and then they got broken?

B - So 6am or 5am?

R - Oh my God. I am calling my agent now.  

B - We don't get good cell reception here and the internet can be spotty too.  6am or 5am?

R - I'm calling the police.

B - I'm really good friends with them.

R - What is going on here?

B - 5am or 6am?

R- I'm NOT DOING THAT!

B - Oh hey look. It's Tyler Hansbrough.  Tyler. Rajon here isn't sure if he should do 5am or 6am.

Tyler H - 5am.  

R - Pst. Tyler. How do you get out of here?

T - Just go for 5am. It gets over faster.

R - Mommmmaaaaaaaa!

[ScoobyDoo]

Nah, would never put Rondo and Bird in the same category - just think that Bird would have a special appreciation for the intangibles of Rondo's game and knowing that those intangibles Rondo has are similar to those of Dennis Johnson.

DJ may not have been a "great shooter" but he killed you when it mattered and he made the plays that win games.

I think Rondo has the same in him, and that's what makes him unique, and it's where his greatest value comes from.

That and the fact that if you give him the right weapons to run with he won't just rack up assists, he'll dissect you every night. 

[EJPLAYA]

If the future championships of the NBA are won by the core of Rondo and Hibbert then Stern is in a whole lot of trouble! I actually laughed out loud when I read that. Seriously?!

[ScoobyDoo]

If I told you that a team with Rondo as the point guard and Kendrick Perkins at center would win a championship, would you laugh out loud as well?

That team would be the Boston Celtics - and they did it with three guys clearly on the downside of their careers, even in 2008 - at least for Ray and KG.

Perkins could barely stay on basketball court more than 10 minutes without either fouling out or traveling his way out of a game his first four years in the league and Rondo was "unproven".

Roy Hibbert averaged nearly 13 points, 8 boards and 2.5 blocks last year - his 3rd in the league. Perkins career stats? Roughly 6 points, 6 boards and 1.4 blocks per game...

If you could package Danny Granger and another player for a premier power forward who can score, add a vet point guard to go with Rush and mix in another Vet signing, you are on your way.

Here's an example with a trade:

Granger & Posey to Atlanta for Josh Smith and Heinrich

Hibbert / Josh McRoberts (Resigned)
Josh Smith / Tyler Hansbrough
Paul George / Free agent signing
Rush / Heinrich
Rondo / A.J Price

Give that team 1-2 years playing together, it has all the elements of a champion, especially if you think Paul George has star quality, which I do.

Hibbert is a solid center, Rondo is a great point guard.
You add the right pieces in the middle of those book ends, you will be in serious contention.

That's a tough team that can get up and down the floor and bang in the half court as well.     

[Roy H.]

Whew... When I saw the post title I was afraid this was a comparison thread.  Thankfully those fears were relieved.

Haha.  Same here.

[EJPLAYA]

If I told you that a team with Rondo as the point guard and Kendrick Perkins at center would win a championship, would you laugh out loud as well?

That team would be the Boston Celtics - and they did it with three guys clearly on the downside of their careers, even in 2008 - at least for Ray and KG.

Perkins could barely stay on basketball court more than 10 minutes without either fouling out or traveling his way out of a game his first four years in the league and Rondo was "unproven".

Roy Hibbert averaged nearly 13 points, 8 boards and 2.5 blocks last year - his 3rd in the league. Perkins career stats? Roughly 6 points, 6 boards and 1.4 blocks per game...

If you could package Danny Granger and another player for a premier power forward who can score, add a vet point guard to go with Rush and mix in another Vet signing, you are on your way.

Here's an example with a trade:

Granger & Posey to Atlanta for Josh Smith and Heinrich

Hibbert / Josh McRoberts (Resigned)
Josh Smith / Tyler Hansbrough
Paul George / Free agent signing
Rush / Heinrich
Rondo / A.J Price

Give that team 1-2 years playing together, it has all the elements of a champion, especially if you think Paul George has star quality, which I do.

Hibbert is a solid center, Rondo is a great point guard.
You add the right pieces in the middle of those book ends, you will be in serious contention.

That's a tough team that can get up and down the floor and bang in the half court as well.     

Clearly on the downside of their careers?! KG and Ray back in 2008?! Come on man. Put the bottle down. They both were clearly not on the “downside”, rather were willing to accept less touches and stats in order to win a championship. This year they might be considered beginning the downside of their careers, but not in 08.

I also notice you completely neglected to discuss Paul Pierce who was at the peak of his career. Hmmm…

So if you are saying that if you take Rondo and Hibbert and put them with three perennial all-stars. One who was playing at the peak of his career. Two others that were very close… Then yes. Maybe Rondo and Hibbert could win a championship. Not because THEY were the reasons that they won, rather because the other 3 All-stars brought them along for the ride and they didn’t screw it up.

You’d think from your post that Perk and Rondo were the stars of the 08 team and that the Big three were just a bunch of scrubs… None of those players on that list are even all star caliber players other than borderline Danny Granger. He can’t hold Pierce’s jock though so I have no clue how you can think that group of trash would be anything more than an eighth seed and a first round exit...

[ScoobyDoo]

Fair enough re Ray and KG in 2008. I'd argue they were still great players but neither was at the peak of their careers.

The point I was trying to make, perhaps more clearly here:

1. Hibbert is a good young center
2. Rondo is a great young point guard
3. If you then put the right talent in between those players and Rondo does his magic making everyone's life easier because of his play making ability, you have a team that can compete for titles.
4. Everyone on that team becomes better than they currently are because of Rondo.

I also disagree that the team listed couldn't seriously compete:

1. Hibbert and Smith would be a load on the boards.
2. Hansbrough and McRoberts are also very energetic and tough on the glass
3. Josh Smith, George and Rush can fly up the court with Rondo

It may require different pieces in between Hibbert and Rondo, but if you get the right ones, you certainly could compete for titles.

[Who]

I don't care much about the positions.

It doesn't matter to me that Rondo is a PG and Hibbert is a C. I don't believe having those two positions in place makes it any easier to build a team.

It's top tier talent that matters to me. Rondo has it. Hibbert doesn't it. So, in my view, the team would have one building block and a replaceable role player.

[ScoobyDoo]

Yes, exactly.

1. Hibbert is like Perkins in that he is a serviceable center.

2. Rondo is a top tier talent

3. I think Paul George is a future all star talent

4. Therefore I'd look to package Granger for a great young PF

5. Get a solid off guard.

This is just a theoretical discussion and all I was implying was that, much like having Perkins and Rondo at Point and center, if you have Hibbert and Rondo and you insert the right max salary talent in between them, you could win a ring. I don't consider Granger the right max talent which is why I'd look to move him for a PF that is who I could pari with Hibbert...

If Paul George reaches what his potential seems to be you "could" have max guy #2...