Who else is torn?

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

I'm feeling odd knowing Danny has already called Baby to express interest, especially while Delonte is tweeting he's sitting next to the phone.

Yeah. Delonte's such a valuable piece, with his ability to play both guard positions, and his hustle and grit -- things Baby sorely lacks.

[GreenEnvy]

I like Rondo. A lot. At times I love his game.

But he is not a player to build a team around. If we do a straight swap of Rondo for Paul (without giving up West, Green, etc.), I'd take the risk.

At the very least, we get one great shot at another title. Maybe he stays, that's to be determined. But if he doesn't, we would have soooo much money off the books.

Ainge could conceivably use the amnesty clause on Pierce next season and have nobody on the roster but rookie contracts (all this assuming he doesn't sign anybody beyond next season and the amnesty rule is for next season as well). In essence, he would be starting a team from scratch, but maybe coming off a championship.

[indeedproceed]

Anyone called Natalie Imbruglia?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osnUB9bUm-E

[BigGovy]

I maybe the only one not torn at all..I would take Rondo over CP every day of the week and twice on Tuesdays. I am not a homer. He is a true point that thinks pass first pass second and then score if needed. He is a far superior defensive player and the best rebounder at his position this league has seen in decades. He has a ring and gets his team to the playoffs and causes match up issues especially with the lakers..CP would not do that as even at his advanced age Derek Fisher could still cover him adequately and there would never be the need for Kobe to switch off on defense as we have seen in the past.. ( i know the world is not the Lakers)...plus the kid is super tuff..where i doubt Cp's tenacity. I don't think this should be a discussion. But as said in the minority on many issues with the Celtics as i would rather see Chandler in green over Howard as well.

[RAcker]

Anyone called Natalie Imbruglia?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osnUB9bUm-E

That is freakin' awesome.

[fairweatherfan]

I maybe the only one not torn at all..I would take Rondo over CP every day of the week and twice on Tuesdays. I am not a homer. He is a true point that thinks pass first pass second and then score if needed. He is a far superior defensive player and the best rebounder at his position this league has seen in decades. He has a ring and gets his team to the playoffs and causes match up issues especially with the lakers..CP would not do that as even at his advanced age Derek Fisher could still cover him adequately and there would never be the need for Kobe to switch off on defense as we have seen in the past.. ( i know the world is not the Lakers)...plus the kid is super tuff..where i doubt Cp's tenacity. I don't think this should be a discussion. But as said in the minority on many issues with the Celtics as i would rather see Chandler in green over Howard as well.

Paul pretty much shredded every Laker that guarded him in the playoffs last year, including Kobe, who was his primary defender after Game 1.  Fisher had no chance whatsoever.

And as for Rondo being the best rebounding PG in decades...Jason Kidd and his 12 consecutive 6+ rpg seasons say hi.

[BigGovy]

I will match Rondo against kids numbers 5 years from now and see where they stack up...how many times did New Orleans beat the Lakers last year after the lakers stubbled out of the gate? We can free to disagree as i said i am in the minority

[Yogi]

   One area Rondo is heads and shoulders above Chris Paul and Deron Williams is speed and quickness.  He is way faster than both running the floor unfortunately he's had a bunch of veterans to play with his whole career.  When it seems that he's being stagnant it's usually because there's no one he can throw the ball ahead to.  He'll do just as well as Paul and Williams on a bad team.  He'll increase his shot attempts which would have him scoring at an equal clip as both Paul and Williams.  
   People continually underestimate Rondo's scoring ability.  One thing is that Boston plays at a very slow pace.  This reduces the number of possessions and deflates the numbers.  Playing at a faster rate would see Rondo's numbers go up significantly. There would be something like 3 extra possessions per game compared with the faster paced teams. 
   It's true beyond doubt that Paul and Williams are heads and shoulders above Rondo in shooting the ball from anywhere on the court.  Rondo is way better than both at finishing and using his quickness to penetrate the defense when he gets a chance.  Check their field goal percentages.  Rondo scores just as effectively as Paul and Williams and better than Rose and Westbrook.  The difference is he doesn't take as many shots.  Put him on a team like Hornets or Nets, he would score just as much as Paul and Williams just in a different way.  I don't see how someone can question his scoring ability when the guy torches the best teams in the playoffs year after year and so efficiently to boot.  
   Also Deron Williams is awful defending quick guards.  Seeing as most point guards in the league are quicker than him it's pretty shocking how many points he gives up.  Although Deron Williams is a great scorer and has excellent vision etc.  He's in not a clearly superior player than Rondo.  He's a better offensive player because his ability to spread the floor is more important than Rondo's ability to get to the rim (Rondo has slightly better vision and passing, Deron has a slightly better post game) Rondo is a superior player defensively.  
   Rondo, without a doubt, has a higher ceiling than both Williams and Paul, but he may never reach that ceiling without improving his shooting.  Paul and Williams will never be able to match Rondo's raw speed and quickness.  Rondo also has way more heart than either of these two "super stars" holding their teams hostage like this.  Unlike these prima-donnas Rondo signed a reasonable contract and sacrifices his body for his team.  He never asks for the limelight happy to make his teammates better.  He takes on any challenge that comes his way whether it's Wade, Lebron, Rose or Kobe and steps up every single time.  For me there is no debate.  There is no mixed feelings.  Rondo every single time.  

[indeedproceed]

I will match Rondo against kids numbers 5 years from now and see where they stack up...how many times did New Orleans beat the Lakers last year after the lakers stubbled out of the gate? We can free to disagree as i said i am in the minority

In terms of per-minute production, Rondo was the 4th best rebounding point guard in the NBA. All 3 guys ahead of him (Westbrook, T Evans, Kidd) were also established starters last season.

[guava_wrench]

I maybe the only one not torn at all..I would take Rondo over CP every day of the week and twice on Tuesdays. I am not a homer. He is a true point that thinks pass first pass second and then score if needed. He is a far superior defensive player and the best rebounder at his position this league has seen in decades. He has a ring and gets his team to the playoffs and causes match up issues especially with the lakers..CP would not do that as even at his advanced age Derek Fisher could still cover him adequately and there would never be the need for Kobe to switch off on defense as we have seen in the past.. ( i know the world is not the Lakers)...plus the kid is super tuff..where i doubt Cp's tenacity. I don't think this should be a discussion. But as said in the minority on many issues with the Celtics as i would rather see Chandler in green over Howard as well.

Can Rondo score 'if needed'? Isn't the problem with him that we need him to score when he is given open jumpers?

I also see no reason to believe that Paul couldn't do the same thing offensively if he was as shooting impaired as Rondo. And how is Rondo a problem for the Lakers? They put Fisher on Ray Allen, not on Rondo. They put Kobe on Rondo and Kobe cheats off of him, making their defense easier.

For me, Rondo's defense is what makes a trade a difficult decision. Paul is also an elite passer so I don't see much of a difference there. Paul has averaged 11.6 APG in a season, more than Rondo ever has. Rondo beat Paul by only about 1 APG last season, a season where Paul lacked complimentary players. Paul also did it last season with almost 1 less TO per game. For all of the Rondo rebounding talk, Paul averages more RPG.

I am not impressed by Paul having more Steals per game than Rondo since steals are a poor measure of defensive ability. Guards can sometimes get a lot of steals while playing bad team defense. On the other hand, I think that it is easy for us to undervalue Paul's defense because of how elite Rondo is.

Ultimately, isn't the move about the reality that with Rondo, we have nothing after this season? Once the big 3 are out of the equation, Rondo will likely be a pathetic core for a team. He will get upset that he is being exposed on offense while surrounded by subpar players and will eventually demand a trade to a team that can exploit his passing ability better and where he can hide his shooting ability.

[BigGovy]

As i said i am in the minority.. if it was I playing i would rather have Rondo at my point .. with all the new rules this has become and is becoming even more so a point guard driven league. which for me makes the point more important than the 5 spot. And yes Rondo can score as he takes the ball to the hole with more authority than CP..i know cp is nifty taking it in but nifty in a Tiny Archibald way and Rondo won't give up on the offensive glass. I will repeat i know i am in the minority here but having played with point guards that dish and you know you are getting the rock is much more fun than standing around and guessing. It envokes more hustle out of the other 4 guys for 48 minutes.

[fairweatherfan]

I will match Rondo against kids numbers 5 years from now and see where they stack up...how many times did New Orleans beat the Lakers last year after the lakers stubbled out of the gate? We can free to disagree as i said i am in the minority

You weren't talking about beating the Lakers, you said Paul didn't cause matchup problems and Fisher could guard him just fine, and Kobe didn't have to switch over to cover him.  That's exactly the opposite of what happened in May.  We definitely can disagree but that stance isn't at all supported by what's happened when Paul's played the Lakers.

[wdleehi]

As i said i am in the minority.. if it was I playing i would rather have Rondo at my point .. with all the new rules this has become and is becoming even more so a point guard driven league. which for me makes the point more important than the 5 spot. And yes Rondo can score as he takes the ball to the hole with more authority than CP..i know cp is nifty taking it in but nifty in a Tiny Archibald way and Rondo won't give up on the offensive glass. I will repeat i know i am in the minority here but having played with point guards that dish and you know you are getting the rock is much more fun than standing around and guessing. It envokes more hustle out of the other 4 guys for 48 minutes.

Have you not seen Paul's passing numbers?  He has almost as many assists with less turnovers. 


This is not trading Rondo for AI. 

[BigGovy]

I know  he tore them up in the first round..he also dominated the ball so much with a weak supporting cast so i think anytime that happens numbers are inflated. At the end of the day he was the best player on the floor but still was unable to win the series.. i get all of that ...but for me ( once again minority) I would not only rather play side by side with someone I knew was gonna dish the ball but I also truly believe as a celtic fan of over 40 years that Defense and Rebounding is what wins championships and shooting and passing come in a distant third.

[wdleehi]

I know  he tore them up in the first round..he also dominated the ball so much with a weak supporting cast so i think anytime that happens numbers are inflated. At the end of the day he was the best player on the floor but still was unable to win the series.. i get all of that ...but for me ( once again minority) I would not only rather play side by side with someone I knew was gonna dish the ball but I also truly believe as a celtic fan of over 40 years that Defense and Rebounding is what wins championships and shooting and passing come in a distant third.

Yet Paul is one of the best passing PGs in the NBA.


Paul is one of the top two defensive PGs in the NBA.

And Paul is only .4 rebounds a game less then Rondo.