This is a question for honest Celtics fans.

[Meadowlark_Scal]

The one funny thing about fans here, is that they never realize that they are a more, more more, mentality,,and cannot realize why we can't just "get" anyone WE want. Also, the next guy is always BETTER. You have one of the top 5 BEST point guards in the league, Why can't we have the #1 best...and then we want howard......and then we want..You scrutinize the guy to death, looking only at his few flaws..forgetting  all he has done, and how he is still improving.

  Also, being a constant "throw away" team is a bad rep to have....you lose your integrity. No one will believe in YOU. Your team gets weary of your, trade up mentality....they have friends here too..Rondo has been with these guys for a few years...I don't know how they all get along, but i do know that Rondo knows his team, knows where they want the ball, how to push it.where they will be..these are things that don't come overnight. Not in a few months either.

  How is bball on bad knees...well cp3 will tell you, as will many others. Rondo gets hammered, and no one on the Celts ever stands up for him...bball is a rough sport..but you have to send a message sooner or later, because the other teams have been sending us one since LA gave us a total, physical beat down, right in front of all of America, and the league, and the refs. Teams whack rondo daily, no call, no team reply. you'll say, "you can't do that" Well, THEY ARE. I still play and coach..on my team, I will check in, and send the message. Wrap it like ron artest did, an "accidental" knee to ray allens thigh, or the old school "follow thru" when ron artest gave rondo 10 facial stitches on a try to block his shot routine...don't forget how kobe, took out the #1 piece that year perkins..i saw it, you saw it...and THAT is one of the oldest tricks in the book, your foot under the jumpers...so, be happy with what you got, add what is needed, not trade for a so called better..get another runner, a rebounder, a defender...shane battier..?, Quality big man..?

[Meadowlark_Scal]

and one guy said danny makes mistakes too, like marquise danials..hey, i feel for the guy..but, he is made of paper..you can't put him on the roster again....

[Lord of Mikawa]

Ainge makes good moves sometimes but I still can't get behind the Perkins trade. I wish he could find a way to get Howard without CP3. Paul just seems to be on the way to another injury if you ask me.

[action781]

And also, for the same reasons, I am so on board with a Rondo for CP trade and have difficulty wondering why people are so interested in having a Rondo-led team floating through mediocrity for the next several years (just as Big Al would have done).

  I don't see why a Paul-led team floating through mediocrity is so much more appealing. And, seriously, a team with Perk/Al/PP/RA/RR would not have floated through mediocrity unless players were injured.

Because Paul led teams won't float through mediocrity. He has led teams with absolute garbage around him into the playoffs. Put any support around him and you've got a possible championship contender. I think Rondo needs a LOT more help or else he won't even be making the playoffs.

[action781]

i wanted kg the second i heard about the possibility to get him.

i had the same reaction when i heard the rondo/cp3 talks.

This...

And someone can correct me if I am wrong but I am pretty sure a poll here at Celticsblog had the viewership overwhelmingly in favor of NOT trading away Big Al for KG.

Never understood that as I don't understand why one wouldn't be in favor of trading Rondo for Paul.

x 3

I voiced my opinion in this blog around that time and called in the Planet Mikey show to express my pleasure regarding the idea of trading Big Al for KG.  I was cut off on the Mikey Show right before I drunkenly described my pleasure as one way of describing a sexual climax, haha.  (Haven't called back since.)

Nick, I'm pretty sure I remember that same poll with the results that you describe.

And also, for the same reasons, I am so on board with a Rondo for CP trade and have difficulty wondering why people are so interested in having a Rondo-led team floating through mediocrity for the next several years (just as Big Al would have done).

The fact that the trades that brought Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen here worked out for the best does not prove that trading Rajon Rondo for Chris Paul will work out as well.

This represents very "soft" logic.  I have read some reasonable arguments for Chris Paul, even though I am against trading Rondo for him, but this is not one of those reasonable arguments.

Yes, that would be soft logic and is not what my reasoning was. My (unstated) reasoning is because only a short list of a few superstars are capable of winning a title in the NBA. KG was among those few 4 years ago. I knew Big Al would never be. Chris Paul is among those few right now. Rondo will never be.

[BballTim]

And also, for the same reasons, I am so on board with a Rondo for CP trade and have difficulty wondering why people are so interested in having a Rondo-led team floating through mediocrity for the next several years (just as Big Al would have done).

  I don't see why a Paul-led team floating through mediocrity is so much more appealing. And, seriously, a team with Perk/Al/PP/RA/RR would not have floated through mediocrity unless players were injured.

Because Paul led teams won't float through mediocrity. He has led teams with absolute garbage around him into the playoffs. Put any support around him and you've got a possible championship contender. I think Rondo needs a LOT more help or else he won't even be making the playoffs.

  CP3 would need to regain his pre-injury for to carry garbage teams anywhere. If we're getting the 2008 Paul, that's great. If we're getting last year's version with less scoring, fewer assists, and much more trouble scoring late in the game, not so much. I think you're wrong about Rondo, but of course it's speculation on both sides.

[Surferdad]

i wanted kg the second i heard about the possibility to get him.

i had the same reaction when i heard the rondo/cp3 talks.

This...

And someone can correct me if I am wrong but I am pretty sure a poll here at Celticsblog had the viewership overwhelmingly in favor of NOT trading away Big Al for KG.

Never understood that as I don't understand why one wouldn't be in favor of trading Rondo for Paul.

x 3

I voiced my opinion in this blog around that time and called in the Planet Mikey show to express my pleasure regarding the idea of trading Big Al for KG.  I was cut off on the Mikey Show right before I drunkenly described my pleasure as one way of describing a sexual climax, haha.  (Haven't called back since.)

Nick, I'm pretty sure I remember that same poll with the results that you describe.

And also, for the same reasons, I am so on board with a Rondo for CP trade and have difficulty wondering why people are so interested in having a Rondo-led team floating through mediocrity for the next several years (just as Big Al would have done).

The fact that the trades that brought Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen here worked out for the best does not prove that trading Rajon Rondo for Chris Paul will work out as well.

This represents very "soft" logic.  I have read some reasonable arguments for Chris Paul, even though I am against trading Rondo for him, but this is not one of those reasonable arguments.

Yes, that would be soft logic and is not what my reasoning was. My (unstated) reasoning is because only a short list of a few superstars are capable of winning a title in the NBA. KG was among those few 4 years ago. I knew Big Al would never be. Chris Paul is among those few right now. Rondo will never be.

(Clear throat)  Um, Rondo already has one so "never" is incorrect.

[action781]

i wanted kg the second i heard about the possibility to get him.

i had the same reaction when i heard the rondo/cp3 talks.

This...

And someone can correct me if I am wrong but I am pretty sure a poll here at Celticsblog had the viewership overwhelmingly in favor of NOT trading away Big Al for KG.

Never understood that as I don't understand why one wouldn't be in favor of trading Rondo for Paul.

x 3

I voiced my opinion in this blog around that time and called in the Planet Mikey show to express my pleasure regarding the idea of trading Big Al for KG.  I was cut off on the Mikey Show right before I drunkenly described my pleasure as one way of describing a sexual climax, haha.  (Haven't called back since.)

Nick, I'm pretty sure I remember that same poll with the results that you describe.

And also, for the same reasons, I am so on board with a Rondo for CP trade and have difficulty wondering why people are so interested in having a Rondo-led team floating through mediocrity for the next several years (just as Big Al would have done).

The fact that the trades that brought Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen here worked out for the best does not prove that trading Rajon Rondo for Chris Paul will work out as well.

This represents very "soft" logic.  I have read some reasonable arguments for Chris Paul, even though I am against trading Rondo for him, but this is not one of those reasonable arguments.

Yes, that would be soft logic and is not what my reasoning was. My (unstated) reasoning is because only a short list of a few superstars are capable of winning a title in the NBA. KG was among those few 4 years ago. I knew Big Al would never be. Chris Paul is among those few right now. Rondo will never be.

(Clear throat)  Um, Rondo already has one so "never" is incorrect.

Haha, you've got me there.  I meant carry a team to a title.  (posted that lazily from my phone).

[action781]

And also, for the same reasons, I am so on board with a Rondo for CP trade and have difficulty wondering why people are so interested in having a Rondo-led team floating through mediocrity for the next several years (just as Big Al would have done).

  I don't see why a Paul-led team floating through mediocrity is so much more appealing. And, seriously, a team with Perk/Al/PP/RA/RR would not have floated through mediocrity unless players were injured.

Because Paul led teams won't float through mediocrity. He has led teams with absolute garbage around him into the playoffs. Put any support around him and you've got a possible championship contender. I think Rondo needs a LOT more help or else he won't even be making the playoffs.

  CP3 would need to regain his pre-injury for to carry garbage teams anywhere. If we're getting the 2008 Paul, that's great. If we're getting last year's version with less scoring, fewer assists, and much more trouble scoring late in the game, not so much. I think you're wrong about Rondo, but of course it's speculation on both sides.

I think that's the stalling point in most of these discussions.  I think that he is still a great player and led a pretty garbage surrounding cast this past season to a 7th seed in a tough conference (better record than a good Memphis team).  Judging from the most recent postseason, I think he's still a premier point guard and premier player in the league.

[BballTim]

And also, for the same reasons, I am so on board with a Rondo for CP trade and have difficulty wondering why people are so interested in having a Rondo-led team floating through mediocrity for the next several years (just as Big Al would have done).

  I don't see why a Paul-led team floating through mediocrity is so much more appealing. And, seriously, a team with Perk/Al/PP/RA/RR would not have floated through mediocrity unless players were injured.

Because Paul led teams won't float through mediocrity. He has led teams with absolute garbage around him into the playoffs. Put any support around him and you've got a possible championship contender. I think Rondo needs a LOT more help or else he won't even be making the playoffs.

  CP3 would need to regain his pre-injury for to carry garbage teams anywhere. If we're getting the 2008 Paul, that's great. If we're getting last year's version with less scoring, fewer assists, and much more trouble scoring late in the game, not so much. I think you're wrong about Rondo, but of course it's speculation on both sides.

I think that's the stalling point in most of these discussions.  I think that he is still a great player and led a pretty garbage surrounding cast this past season to a 7th seed in a tough conference (better record than a good Memphis team).  Judging from the most recent postseason, I think he's still a premier point guard and premier player in the league.

  They had the same record as Memphis, in fact Memphis beat the Hornets twice in April during that playoff race. The 9th and 10th teams weren't that talented either. It's not like he carried the team much higher than their talent level. He did have a couple of great games against a Lakers team that lost 5 of 7 going into the playoffs and got swept in the next round, I'd like to see a little more than that before I ignore a year's worth of play.

[Celtics18]

i wanted kg the second i heard about the possibility to get him.

i had the same reaction when i heard the rondo/cp3 talks.

This...

And someone can correct me if I am wrong but I am pretty sure a poll here at Celticsblog had the viewership overwhelmingly in favor of NOT trading away Big Al for KG.

Never understood that as I don't understand why one wouldn't be in favor of trading Rondo for Paul.

x 3

I voiced my opinion in this blog around that time and called in the Planet Mikey show to express my pleasure regarding the idea of trading Big Al for KG.  I was cut off on the Mikey Show right before I drunkenly described my pleasure as one way of describing a sexual climax, haha.  (Haven't called back since.)

Nick, I'm pretty sure I remember that same poll with the results that you describe.

And also, for the same reasons, I am so on board with a Rondo for CP trade and have difficulty wondering why people are so interested in having a Rondo-led team floating through mediocrity for the next several years (just as Big Al would have done).

The fact that the trades that brought Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen here worked out for the best does not prove that trading Rajon Rondo for Chris Paul will work out as well.

This represents very "soft" logic.  I have read some reasonable arguments for Chris Paul, even though I am against trading Rondo for him, but this is not one of those reasonable arguments.

Yes, that would be soft logic and is not what my reasoning was. My (unstated) reasoning is because only a short list of a few superstars are capable of winning a title in the NBA. KG was among those few 4 years ago. I knew Big Al would never be. Chris Paul is among those few right now. Rondo will never be.

That seems to be the opinion of a lot of people around here.  I'd be curious to know exactly who is on that short list, however.  I wonder if Dirk Nowitzki was really on that list for anybody until his team actually won an NBA championship. 

[BASS_THUMPER]

Back in 07, would you, as a Celtics fan, want to trade Al Jefferson for Kevin Garnett?

I know for a fact that many didnt. I was certainly on the fence.

Well guess what...KG came here and changed the fortunes of this franchise.

Trust Danny. This guy wants a contender for the next 10 years.

I think he can deliver.

We all love Rondo but he has flaws..like Jefferson.

Its time to trade him while his value is this high.

liked al

but constant ankle problems

[BballTim]

i wanted kg the second i heard about the possibility to get him.

i had the same reaction when i heard the rondo/cp3 talks.

This...

And someone can correct me if I am wrong but I am pretty sure a poll here at Celticsblog had the viewership overwhelmingly in favor of NOT trading away Big Al for KG.

Never understood that as I don't understand why one wouldn't be in favor of trading Rondo for Paul.

x 3

I voiced my opinion in this blog around that time and called in the Planet Mikey show to express my pleasure regarding the idea of trading Big Al for KG.  I was cut off on the Mikey Show right before I drunkenly described my pleasure as one way of describing a sexual climax, haha.  (Haven't called back since.)

Nick, I'm pretty sure I remember that same poll with the results that you describe.

And also, for the same reasons, I am so on board with a Rondo for CP trade and have difficulty wondering why people are so interested in having a Rondo-led team floating through mediocrity for the next several years (just as Big Al would have done).

The fact that the trades that brought Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen here worked out for the best does not prove that trading Rajon Rondo for Chris Paul will work out as well.

This represents very "soft" logic.  I have read some reasonable arguments for Chris Paul, even though I am against trading Rondo for him, but this is not one of those reasonable arguments.

Yes, that would be soft logic and is not what my reasoning was. My (unstated) reasoning is because only a short list of a few superstars are capable of winning a title in the NBA. KG was among those few 4 years ago. I knew Big Al would never be. Chris Paul is among those few right now. Rondo will never be.

That seems to be the opinion of a lot of people around here.  I'd be curious to know exactly who is on that short list, however.  I wonder if Dirk Nowitzki was really on that list for anybody until his team actually won an NBA championship. 

  That's pretty much how it works, you win a title and get onto the list.

[action781]

Yes, that would be soft logic and is not what my reasoning was. My (unstated) reasoning is because only a short list of a few superstars are capable of winning a title in the NBA. KG was among those few 4 years ago. I knew Big Al would never be. Chris Paul is among those few right now. Rondo will never be.

That seems to be the opinion of a lot of people around here.  I'd be curious to know exactly who is on that short list, however.  I wonder if Dirk Nowitzki was really on that list for anybody until his team actually won an NBA championship. 

I'll give you my list for this season:
Lebron, Kobe, Wade, CP3, Howard, Durant, Dirk, Rose.  Duncan, KG, and Nash I think have fallen off that list for the first time in their career (or maybe a season or 2 ago).  Melo is probably the first player left off the list and a case could be argued for him.

Not to say that no other teams can win... but they won't be carried by one player, it will have to be a complete team effort (e.g. celtics) with several players putting on dominant performances.  But more often in the history of the NBA, titles are won by superstars carrying teams and not be balanced team efforts.

It's tough to answer that question honestly about Dirk since hindsight is so clear in my mind.  If I hadn't put him on it, I would clearly have been wrong.  And I could be wrong about this list too... but I feel safe saying there's a > 95% chance I'm right.

  That's pretty much how it works, you win a title and get onto the list.

Yes, if you do carry a team to a title, you should be on the list that is essentially defined by players who have done so.  But I don't think it's the only way to get on it as only 3 players on my list have won titles.  The NBA is in a position transitioning from the Kobe/Duncan era (9 combined titles in the last 13 years) to a new era of younger superstars who haven't yet won, but are sure to win many of the next 10. 

[winsomme]

Roy very accurately summarized Rondo's game in the "Rondo is angry ..." thread. He's not the best PG in the league - by far - and his game is entirely stagnant. Ergo, I applaud Danny for exploring options to improve this ballclub, for this year and certainly for the future. Danny's job isn't to be a fan and develop allegiances to individual players; it's to put the best ballclub possible on the floor, and if he has a shot at upgrades at any position, I expect him to pursue them. I'm unconcerned about the player reaction to Ainge doing his job.

As for Perkins, I've been consistent throughout: His skillset isn't worth $9 million a year, and unfortunately for OKC, they got a crash course in that with his diminishing returns in the playoffs. I wouldn't blame them if they amnestied that deal. Danny got an asset for which the jury is still out - personally, I'm in the wait and see on the QO mode on that contract.

As for the two trades, Danny was astute enough to cash in on two liquidation sales, acquiring two superstars and first ballot HOFers for virtually nothing. The book is closed on those two trades, and they were heists.

We also got a crash course on Krstic and Jeff Green...I think even Danny rethought that trade as evidenced by the info that he was looking to reacquire Perk.

KG clearly worked here but I felt very frustrated at the time of the trade because I was a huge Big Al fan (still am).

I feel similarly with Rondo. I love watching him play and we know that we can win with him. Still, CP3 is tantalizing.

As for Danny, I love how aggressive he is, but I think even he knows that the Perk trade was a mistake at this point.