Nets offering Brooke Lopez and 2 1st rd picks for Howard ( Sportscenter)

[Roy H.]

Just like I think that we can probably offer the best deal for CP3, I think that New Jersey makes the most sense for Howard.  No other team can offer a young big man of Lopez's caliber and health (unless the Clippers want to move Griffin), and the ability to take back Hedo's contract is a huge added incentive for Orlando.

No reason not to wait and see if Lopez bounces back from his bad year last year. See if it was an injury or something he's overcome, otherwise trading Howard for a soft C who plays outside the paint wouldn't be wise. Though it might actually be the best offer in the end.

I think that Lopez's play last year is wildly overblown.  I don't think he was "bad", he just didn't continue to improve as many suggested.  The rebounding really sucked, but he was a consistent provider of post offense.  (For perspective, a larger percentage of Lopez' offense came inside than Al Jefferson's).

[Evantime34]

Wasn't Lopez not very good last year? I don't think I take that if I'm the Magic, especially not before Dwight has told them he won't sign an extension.

His rebounding dipped, but "not very good" is pretty relative.  He was 17th in the entire NBA in scoring, and was third among centers (behind Howard and Bargnani).  He's a pretty reliable inside scoring, with 42% of his offense coming inside, and he's got a decent jump shot, as well.  Defensively, he's decent, and is a consistent shot blocker.  Historically, he's been about average as a rebounder, although last year it fell to poor.

Very few centers -- let alone 23 year old centers -- are as accomplished and polished as Lopez is.

He played soft and it showed with rebounding numbers that BBD has put up, completely unacceptable if you think he's  a franchise building block.

Historically he hasn't even been average, he's been very poor. He was average as a rookie and its been downhill since.

I'm glad the NBA is back, I missed the shock of having Faf agree with me.

Ultimately I think the best offer comes from LAC they could package some of the following assets, Bledsoe, Aminu, Jordan, Kaman, Gordan and/or a 1st. I think a little help from other teams joining in on the deal and they could grab Cp3 and Howard.

[Greenbean]

Just like I think that we can probably offer the best deal for CP3, I think that New Jersey makes the most sense for Howard.  No other team can offer a young big man of Lopez's caliber and health (unless the Clippers want to move Griffin), and the ability to take back Hedo's contract is a huge added incentive for Orlando.

Exactly.  Much like the Nets made the best offer for Melo very early last year, they seem to be doing the same thing with Howard.  I like their aggressiveness here. 

I just don't think the Magic will ever do any better than that offer (and I am sure they could get them to sweeten it a little more, if they really want).

So, now it will be up to Howard, and what he tells Orlando's owners behind closed doors.  If he says he is gone, then I think he is a Net.  If he hesitates, they will likely hold on to him all year.

Yes I also agree.

3 things are going to happen if this offer is true.


1. Dwight wants to go to Brooklyn and play with Deron Williams. Deal done.
2. Dwight stays for one year and signs with the defending champion Boston Celtics in the offseason (that last part is a dream)

3. ORLANDO EXTENDS HIM! This is a darkhorse scenario. Orlando already handed one big market team 3 championships by not retaining another hall of fame center. Do you really think they want to go down in history for doing the same thing again?

[Fafnir]

Just like I think that we can probably offer the best deal for CP3, I think that New Jersey makes the most sense for Howard.  No other team can offer a young big man of Lopez's caliber and health (unless the Clippers want to move Griffin), and the ability to take back Hedo's contract is a huge added incentive for Orlando.

No reason not to wait and see if Lopez bounces back from his bad year last year. See if it was an injury or something he's overcome, otherwise trading Howard for a soft C who plays outside the paint wouldn't be wise. Though it might actually be the best offer in the end.

I think that Lopez's play last year is wildly overblown.  I don't think he was "bad", he just didn't continue to improve as many suggested.  The rebounding really sucked, but he was a consistent provider of post offense.  (For perspective, a larger percentage of Lopez' offense came inside than Al Jefferson's).

He didn't just not improve, he stagnated offensively (admittedly his offense is all star worthy for a C) and then played extremely soft on the defensive glass and when it came to the post in general.

That's a decline in his level of play.

[indeedproceed]

decent centers are really hard to find.  lopez might not be a very good rebounder, but he can score.  the magic already have a point guard.

i'm not saying the magic can't do better, but i could understand why they'd go for that deal.  i also think that the nets might end up being where howard most wants to play anyway (it's a big market and it offers him the chance to be THE guy).

Also, they're getting to jettison Turk, while picking up an affordable player in Lopez who will keep them relatively competitive.

[Roy H.]

Wasn't Lopez not very good last year? I don't think I take that if I'm the Magic, especially not before Dwight has told them he won't sign an extension.

His rebounding dipped, but "not very good" is pretty relative.  He was 17th in the entire NBA in scoring, and was third among centers (behind Howard and Bargnani).  He's a pretty reliable inside scoring, with 42% of his offense coming inside, and he's got a decent jump shot, as well.  Defensively, he's decent, and is a consistent shot blocker.  Historically, he's been about average as a rebounder, although last year it fell to poor.

Very few centers -- let alone 23 year old centers -- are as accomplished and polished as Lopez is.

He played soft and it showed with rebounding numbers that BBD has put up, completely unacceptable if you think he's  a franchise building block.

Historically he hasn't even been average, he's been very poor. He was average as a rookie and its been downhill since.

I'm glad the NBA is back, I missed the shock of having Faf agree with me.

Ultimately I think the best offer comes from LAC they could package some of the following assets, Bledsoe, Aminu, Jordan, Kaman, Gordan and/or a 1st. I think a little help from other teams joining in on the deal and they could grab Cp3 and Howard.

Of the players you mentioned, though, only Gordon is on par with Lopez.  It seems weird to knock Lopez, and then include Kaman (29 years old, injury prone, coming off a season when he played 32 games and averaged 12p/7r) or Jordan (the same age as Lopez, but much, much more raw, and nowhere near as offensively skilled as Lopez) as assets.

[clover]

Just like I think that we can probably offer the best deal for CP3, I think that New Jersey makes the most sense for Howard.  No other team can offer a young big man of Lopez's caliber and health (unless the Clippers want to move Griffin), and the ability to take back Hedo's contract is a huge added incentive for Orlando.

Exactly.  Much like the Nets made the best offer for Melo very early last year, they seem to be doing the same thing with Howard.  I like their aggressiveness here. 

I just don't think the Magic will ever do any better than that offer (and I am sure they could get them to sweeten it a little more, if they really want).

So, now it will be up to Howard, and what he tells Orlando's owners behind closed doors.  If he says he is gone, then I think he is a Net.  If he hesitates, they will likely hold on to him all year.

Yes I also agree.

3 things are going to happen if this offer is true.


1. Dwight wants to go to Brooklyn and play with Deron Williams. Deal done.
2. Dwight stays for one year and signs with the defending champion Boston Celtics in the offseason (that last part is a dream)

3. ORLANDO EXTENDS HIM! This is a darkhorse scenario. Orlando already handed one big market team 3 championships by not retaining another hall of fame center. Do you really think they want to go down in history for doing the same thing again?

And if he didn't want to go to Brooklyn, but Danny got CP and he wanted to come here, why wouldn't Orlando take Boston's best offer now?

[Roy H.]

Just like I think that we can probably offer the best deal for CP3, I think that New Jersey makes the most sense for Howard.  No other team can offer a young big man of Lopez's caliber and health (unless the Clippers want to move Griffin), and the ability to take back Hedo's contract is a huge added incentive for Orlando.

No reason not to wait and see if Lopez bounces back from his bad year last year. See if it was an injury or something he's overcome, otherwise trading Howard for a soft C who plays outside the paint wouldn't be wise. Though it might actually be the best offer in the end.

I think that Lopez's play last year is wildly overblown.  I don't think he was "bad", he just didn't continue to improve as many suggested.  The rebounding really sucked, but he was a consistent provider of post offense.  (For perspective, a larger percentage of Lopez' offense came inside than Al Jefferson's).

He didn't just not improve, he stagnated offensively (admittedly his offense is all star worthy for a C) and then played extremely soft on the defensive glass and when it came to the post in general.

That's a decline in his level of play.

I'm not sure it's fair to say that he stagnated offensively.  His scoring average jumped by 2.5 points per 36 minutes; he became a larger part of the offense, with basically no dip in efficiency.  Also, in terms of post-play, in the offense post he was a reliable scorer. 

Lopez probably isn't going to be a "franchise player" type of center, but he's a very good one.  A lot of fans act as if he fell off a cliff last year, but looking at his career in the context of how poor his teammates have been and how many distractions have hovered around the Nets, I think Lopez is still an excellent prospect.

[Evantime34]

Wasn't Lopez not very good last year? I don't think I take that if I'm the Magic, especially not before Dwight has told them he won't sign an extension.

His rebounding dipped, but "not very good" is pretty relative.  He was 17th in the entire NBA in scoring, and was third among centers (behind Howard and Bargnani).  He's a pretty reliable inside scoring, with 42% of his offense coming inside, and he's got a decent jump shot, as well.  Defensively, he's decent, and is a consistent shot blocker.  Historically, he's been about average as a rebounder, although last year it fell to poor.

Very few centers -- let alone 23 year old centers -- are as accomplished and polished as Lopez is.

He played soft and it showed with rebounding numbers that BBD has put up, completely unacceptable if you think he's  a franchise building block.

Historically he hasn't even been average, he's been very poor. He was average as a rookie and its been downhill since.

I'm glad the NBA is back, I missed the shock of having Faf agree with me.

Ultimately I think the best offer comes from LAC they could package some of the following assets, Bledsoe, Aminu, Jordan, Kaman, Gordan and/or a 1st. I think a little help from other teams joining in on the deal and they could grab Cp3 and Howard.

Of the players you mentioned, though, only Gordon is on par with Lopez.  It seems weird to knock Lopez, and then include Kaman (29 years old, injury prone, coming off a season when he played 32 games and averaged 12p/7r) or Jordan (the same age as Lopez, but much, much more raw, and nowhere near as offensively skilled as Lopez) as assets.

The difference is those guys can be traded with eachother as well as a first. Where the Nets really only have Lopez and picks as good tradable assets.

[Roy H.]

Wasn't Lopez not very good last year? I don't think I take that if I'm the Magic, especially not before Dwight has told them he won't sign an extension.

His rebounding dipped, but "not very good" is pretty relative.  He was 17th in the entire NBA in scoring, and was third among centers (behind Howard and Bargnani).  He's a pretty reliable inside scoring, with 42% of his offense coming inside, and he's got a decent jump shot, as well.  Defensively, he's decent, and is a consistent shot blocker.  Historically, he's been about average as a rebounder, although last year it fell to poor.

Very few centers -- let alone 23 year old centers -- are as accomplished and polished as Lopez is.

He played soft and it showed with rebounding numbers that BBD has put up, completely unacceptable if you think he's  a franchise building block.

Historically he hasn't even been average, he's been very poor. He was average as a rookie and its been downhill since.

I'm glad the NBA is back, I missed the shock of having Faf agree with me.

Ultimately I think the best offer comes from LAC they could package some of the following assets, Bledsoe, Aminu, Jordan, Kaman, Gordan and/or a 1st. I think a little help from other teams joining in on the deal and they could grab Cp3 and Howard.

Of the players you mentioned, though, only Gordon is on par with Lopez.  It seems weird to knock Lopez, and then include Kaman (29 years old, injury prone, coming off a season when he played 32 games and averaged 12p/7r) or Jordan (the same age as Lopez, but much, much more raw, and nowhere near as offensively skilled as Lopez) as assets.

The difference is those guys can be traded with eachother as well as a first. Where the Nets really only have Lopez and picks as good tradable assets.

Right, but at least when taking Gordon out of the equation, you're asking Orlando to trade a thoroughbred for two ponies and a donkey.  At least New Jersey is offering a horse.  (Whose analogy did I just steal?  Was it clover's?)

[Who]

Brook Lopez is a Rik Smits / Zydrunas Ilgauskas level center.

[Roy H.]

Brook Lopez is a Rik Smits / Zydrunas Ilgauskas level center.

While I think both of those centers are underrated, I think Lopez is more offensively talented than either.  Also, for whatever it's worth, I have Smits and Ilgauskas on slightly different levels; I think Smits was in a higher class as a player, but he was hampered by injuries / durability concerns that kept him off the court some.

[Fafnir]

Just like I think that we can probably offer the best deal for CP3, I think that New Jersey makes the most sense for Howard.  No other team can offer a young big man of Lopez's caliber and health (unless the Clippers want to move Griffin), and the ability to take back Hedo's contract is a huge added incentive for Orlando.

No reason not to wait and see if Lopez bounces back from his bad year last year. See if it was an injury or something he's overcome, otherwise trading Howard for a soft C who plays outside the paint wouldn't be wise. Though it might actually be the best offer in the end.

I think that Lopez's play last year is wildly overblown.  I don't think he was "bad", he just didn't continue to improve as many suggested.  The rebounding really sucked, but he was a consistent provider of post offense.  (For perspective, a larger percentage of Lopez' offense came inside than Al Jefferson's).

He didn't just not improve, he stagnated offensively (admittedly his offense is all star worthy for a C) and then played extremely soft on the defensive glass and when it came to the post in general.

That's a decline in his level of play.

I'm not sure it's fair to say that he stagnated offensively.  His scoring average jumped by 2.5 points per 36 minutes; he became a larger part of the offense, with basically no dip in efficiency.  Also, in terms of post-play, in the offense post he was a reliable scorer. 

Lopez probably isn't going to be a "franchise player" type of center, but he's a very good one.  A lot of fans act as if he fell off a cliff last year, but looking at his career in the context of how poor his teammates have been and how many distractions have hovered around the Nets, I think Lopez is still an excellent prospect.

I don't think taking two more shots on a bad team is a sign of improvement.

[Roy H.]

Just like I think that we can probably offer the best deal for CP3, I think that New Jersey makes the most sense for Howard.  No other team can offer a young big man of Lopez's caliber and health (unless the Clippers want to move Griffin), and the ability to take back Hedo's contract is a huge added incentive for Orlando.

No reason not to wait and see if Lopez bounces back from his bad year last year. See if it was an injury or something he's overcome, otherwise trading Howard for a soft C who plays outside the paint wouldn't be wise. Though it might actually be the best offer in the end.

I think that Lopez's play last year is wildly overblown.  I don't think he was "bad", he just didn't continue to improve as many suggested.  The rebounding really sucked, but he was a consistent provider of post offense.  (For perspective, a larger percentage of Lopez' offense came inside than Al Jefferson's).

He didn't just not improve, he stagnated offensively (admittedly his offense is all star worthy for a C) and then played extremely soft on the defensive glass and when it came to the post in general.

That's a decline in his level of play.

I'm not sure it's fair to say that he stagnated offensively.  His scoring average jumped by 2.5 points per 36 minutes; he became a larger part of the offense, with basically no dip in efficiency.  Also, in terms of post-play, in the offense post he was a reliable scorer. 

Lopez probably isn't going to be a "franchise player" type of center, but he's a very good one.  A lot of fans act as if he fell off a cliff last year, but looking at his career in the context of how poor his teammates have been and how many distractions have hovered around the Nets, I think Lopez is still an excellent prospect.

I don't think taking two more shots on a bad team is a sign of improvement.

Increasing scoring / scoring rate while maintaining efficiency isn't an improvement?  I'm surprised to hear you say that.  Generally, as shooting volume goes up, efficiency tends to go down.  Players who can maintain efficiency along with volume are rare.

[Fafnir]

Increasing scoring / scoring rate while maintaining efficiency isn't an improvement?  I'm surprised to hear you say that.  Generally, as shooting volume goes up, efficiency tends to go down.  Players who can maintain efficiency along with volume are rare.

This isn't true the number of shots taken by a given player usually only slightly decreases their efficiency. Especially if they're playing the same sort of role on their new team. Inefficient players typically stay inefficient and efficient guys typically stay efficient. Basketball players are pretty darn consistent overall with their play.