Author Topic: Breaking news: Hunter says there will be disclaimer of interest  (Read 21100 times)

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Re: Breaking news: Hunter says there will be disclaimer of interest
« Reply #75 on: November 15, 2011, 06:21:34 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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I just made a simple comment that a tweet Roger Mason made annoyed me, and then the next thing I know I'm inferring that the players have a moral obligation to work for free so ushers and ball boys could collect a paycheck.


that was pretty funny.  

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Re: Breaking news: Hunter says there will be disclaimer of interest
« Reply #76 on: November 15, 2011, 06:22:30 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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You're making an incredible amount of money off of something that affects so many people, whether it be of personal interest or financial interest.

When you alter millions of people's ability to enjoy life (whether it be as simple as stopping someone from enjoying a game to taking away a person's livelihood) because you're arguing over  ways to split up millions of dollars I think every single person involved is guilty of a varying level of greed.
If you're going to define greed that broadly than those millions are just as greedy for wanting the NBA so badly and blaming the owners/players/etc.

That broad a view of greed reduces the term to nothingness in our free market economy.

Re: Breaking news: Hunter says there will be disclaimer of interest
« Reply #77 on: November 15, 2011, 06:36:14 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Do you believe the players' salaries (as a union) was the prime factor in the alleged 'losses' the owners have suffered?

No idea.  I do know the NBA has showed the players their audited records, and that the players have acknowledged some level of losses, although they're skeptical it's $300 million.  As for where you attribute the losses to, obviously salaries is a huge part of it.  When the average team is allegedly losing $10 million per season, and the average team's salary is around $65 million, that's a huge expense.

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Because I'm not even sure strictly speaking, when considering all basketball related revenue (which is different than BRI) that the league, as a whole actually suffered losses.

It's okay to be skeptical, but to my knowledge, not even the union has argued that the NBA was profitable.  Thus, one of the reasons they're making so many concessions.


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On top of that, going from a 57% split to a 50/50 split seems to me to be huge win for the owners, and would account for all the money they're alleging to lose 'per season', and that's before the unveil their new profit sharing model, which should've accounted for most of those losses to small market teams in the first place.

I don't understand why people get hung up on revenue sharing as it relates to BRI.  Yes, revenue sharing is a part of competitive balance.  However, it's not going to help the league's bottom line.  If the league is losing $300 million per season, no amount of revenue sharing is going to help that; at best, each team is losing $10 million per year.

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As far as not meeting the players on a level playing surface, it seems like there is only one side giving back in these negotiations. The owners want a bigger share of the pie, salary roll backs, more control over player movement, and less obligated money to unproductive players (hence the d-league provisions).

The league is out of balance right now, in favor of the players.  The owners are trying to re-set that balance.  In six years, perhaps the players will strike to re-set it once again.  That's how this stuff works.

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The players want....? To not get screwed too bad? Seems like only one side of the deal here is getting everything on their christmas list. I'd hardly call that give and take.

Again, not everything is "fair".  Not everything is "give and take".  Let's use a political example.  President Obama has appointed two liberal nominees to the Supreme Court.  Should his next appointment be a strict-constructionist conservative, in the spirit of give-and-take?  Of course not.  Those who have power and leverage use that power to promote their self-interest.  It's how the market works.


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That's a valid point. On principals alone, I'd say stick it out, no matter the cost if you feel like you're being treated like a second class citizen.

But from the players earning potential and my own perspective of 'dude, there's no basketball', I have to say it is getting tiresome.

Regarding that earning potential, here's what Michael McCann (SI's legal expert) tweeted:

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Avg NBA career lasts 4.7 years. One lost year is 21.3% of their NBA careers.

I hope the principle is worth it.


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Re: Breaking news: Hunter says there will be disclaimer of interest
« Reply #78 on: November 15, 2011, 06:41:07 PM »

Offline StartOrien

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You're making an incredible amount of money off of something that affects so many people, whether it be of personal interest or financial interest.

When you alter millions of people's ability to enjoy life (whether it be as simple as stopping someone from enjoying a game to taking away a person's livelihood) because you're arguing over  ways to split up millions of dollars I think every single person involved is guilty of a varying level of greed.
If you're going to define greed that broadly than those millions are just as greedy for wanting the NBA so badly and blaming the owners/players/etc.


That's silly.

Re: Breaking news: Hunter says there will be disclaimer of interest
« Reply #79 on: November 15, 2011, 06:41:25 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Players to file in 9th Circuit. Pro labor jurisdiction. NBA will respond that 1st lawsuit, over same issues, already filed in 2nd Circuit.

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Timing matters: there are 2 courts hearing similar, if not same, claims; likely to end up in 1 court-will take time as hopes for season fade

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Oh wait, 2 lawsuits filed by players- one in 9th Circuit, one in 8th Circuit. NBA's is in 2nd circuit. Maybe this will go to Supreme Court!

http://twitter.com/#!/mccannsportslaw

What a cluster.


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Re: Breaking news: Hunter says there will be disclaimer of interest
« Reply #80 on: November 15, 2011, 06:48:53 PM »

Offline StartOrien

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I can't help but escape this thought: What is all this for? Honestly, how much does either side stand to lose/gain at this point.

EDIT: wow, that sounds so hippy.

Re: Breaking news: Hunter says there will be disclaimer of interest
« Reply #81 on: November 15, 2011, 06:56:29 PM »

Offline guava_wrench

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The players want....? To not get screwed too bad? Seems like only one side of the deal here is getting everything on their christmas list. I'd hardly call that give and take.

Again, not everything is "fair".  Not everything is "give and take".  Let's use a political example.  President Obama has appointed two liberal nominees to the Supreme Court.  Should his next appointment be a strict-constructionist conservative, in the spirit of give-and-take?  Of course not.  Those who have power and leverage use that power to promote their self-interest.  It's how the market works.
A better illustration of the 'illusion' of 'give and take' is that sides negotiating will start with ridiculously, out of whack, offers that they can move in from.

It seems to me that fairness has nothing to do with 'give and take' with respect to initial demands in negotiation. Fair would be something that is mutually beneficial for both sides or at least something that proportionally distributes risk. It is possible that one side actually had the fairest contract terms from day 1 but the discussion was forced to the middle.

Another thing that annoys me is the push for 50/50. There is no reason to believe that round numbers like 50% are magical numbers that find equilibrium between the concerns of the 2 sides. 50/50 is almost a P.R. move since the lay person will intuitively think 50-50 sounds fair.

Re: Breaking news: Hunter says there will be disclaimer of interest
« Reply #82 on: November 15, 2011, 06:57:09 PM »

Offline guava_wrench

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I can't help but escape this thought: What is all this for? Honestly, how much does either side stand to lose/gain at this point.

EDIT: wow, that sounds so hippy.
Hundreds of millions of dollars per year?

Re: Breaking news: Hunter says there will be disclaimer of interest
« Reply #83 on: November 15, 2011, 07:57:03 PM »

Offline StartOrien

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I can't help but escape this thought: What is all this for? Honestly, how much does either side stand to lose/gain at this point.

EDIT: wow, that sounds so hippy.
Hundreds of millions of dollars per year?

The difference between where the two sides are? I highly doubt it.

Re: Breaking news: Hunter says there will be disclaimer of interest
« Reply #84 on: November 15, 2011, 08:31:00 PM »

Offline The Walker Wiggle

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Plaintiffs named on players' lawsuit filed in California against the NBA: Carmelo Anthony, Chauncey Billups, Kevin Durant, Leon Powe and Kawhi Leonard.

In Minnesota: Caron Butler, Anthony Tolliver, Derrick Williams and Ben Gordon.

Re: Breaking news: Hunter says there will be disclaimer of interest
« Reply #85 on: November 15, 2011, 08:38:10 PM »

Offline The Walker Wiggle

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I can't help but escape this thought: What is all this for? Honestly, how much does either side stand to lose/gain at this point.

EDIT: wow, that sounds so hippy.
Hundreds of millions of dollars per year?

The difference between where the two sides are? I highly doubt it.

In strict dollar terms, each percentage point of the BRI represents just over $38 million. Thus by indicating they would accept a 50-50 BRI split, players would be conceding about $265 million, which would come very close to covering all of the league's declared $300 million in loses. The league's reset offer of a 47-53 split favoring owners would represent $416 million in givebacks.

Re: Breaking news: Hunter says there will be disclaimer of interest
« Reply #86 on: November 15, 2011, 08:46:04 PM »

Offline StartOrien

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I can't help but escape this thought: What is all this for? Honestly, how much does either side stand to lose/gain at this point.

EDIT: wow, that sounds so hippy.
Hundreds of millions of dollars per year?

The difference between where the two sides are? I highly doubt it.

In strict dollar terms, each percentage point of the BRI represents just over $38 million. Thus by indicating they would accept a 50-50 BRI split, players would be conceding about $265 million, which would come very close to covering all of the league's declared $300 million in loses. The league's reset offer of a 47-53 split favoring owners would represent $416 million in givebacks.

But that's using Stern like numbers. A reset is a threat, not where the number realistically will end up.

Re: Breaking news: Hunter says there will be disclaimer of interest
« Reply #87 on: November 15, 2011, 09:02:10 PM »

Offline The Walker Wiggle

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I can't help but escape this thought: What is all this for? Honestly, how much does either side stand to lose/gain at this point.

EDIT: wow, that sounds so hippy.
Hundreds of millions of dollars per year?

The difference between where the two sides are? I highly doubt it.

In strict dollar terms, each percentage point of the BRI represents just over $38 million. Thus by indicating they would accept a 50-50 BRI split, players would be conceding about $265 million, which would come very close to covering all of the league's declared $300 million in loses. The league's reset offer of a 47-53 split favoring owners would represent $416 million in givebacks.

But that's using Stern like numbers. A reset is a threat, not where the number realistically will end up.

You may be right, although I hesitate to use the word, "realistic" when discussing the NBA lockout. That is certainly an argument the players will make in court.

Re: Breaking news: Hunter says there will be disclaimer of interest
« Reply #88 on: November 15, 2011, 09:03:43 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Plaintiffs named on players' lawsuit filed in California against the NBA: Carmelo Anthony, Chauncey Billups, Kevin Durant, Leon Powe and Kawhi Leonard.

In Minnesota: Caron Butler, Anthony Tolliver, Derrick Williams and Ben Gordon.

How can Leonard and Williams be named?  They've never technically been NBA employees.  Or is it just being able to reasonably claim damages?

Re: Breaking news: Hunter says there will be disclaimer of interest
« Reply #89 on: November 15, 2011, 09:24:45 PM »

Offline greenpride32

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How can Leonard and Williams be named?  They've never technically been NBA employees.  Or is it just being able to reasonably claim damages?
[/quote]

I read somewhere that rookies would be suing the NBA for denying them the opportunity to play this year.  Yes the situation has gotten beyond ridiculous.