Jeff Green Really Didn't have a bad half year with the C's

[pearljammer10]

Ya... He really didnt have a good half year with the C's either.

[nickagneta]

   Tough Small-forwards in the East this year Lebron, Melo, Iguodala, Granger, Deng, Josh Smith (sometimes) and perhaps even the long, athletic Jan Vesley.
   Jeff Green is going to be awesome this season.  He's going to make quite a few fans in Boston.  In the running for SMOY.

Yup, lots of tough SFs in the East this year....thing is Jeff Green isn't one of them.

[BASS_THUMPER]

when we make moves trading with others i expect to see better than we had before.



no one we got from trading with other are better than the before's


green didnt shock and awe me

[Yogi]

Jeff Green is a great player.  He's going to be a top small forward for years to come.  His production for the Celtics last year should be understood with these points in mind. 
1) He's 24 years old.
2) He changed from a starter to a bench player.
3) He changed from a power forward to a small forward.
4) He was traded(a true trade) for the first time in his career by a move that NO ONE saw coming. 
5) He went from a full court run and gun offense centered around Westbrook and Durant chucking to a very complex, extra-pass, half court offense.
6) He went from a leader on a very young team, to the youngest rotation player on a veteran team.
7) Look at how Rondo was affected by Perk leaving, why shouldn't a younger Jeff Green not be affected by leaving his best friends Durant, Westbrook and Harden in Oklahoma?
   Despite all of this, he was still reasonably efficient and productive.  He's going to be a very good player.  With Rondo, Avery Bradley, Gilbert Brown, Jeff Green and JaJuan Johnson, I am looking forward to some fast breaks, dunks and alley-oops for a change. 

[Eja117]

Kinda at Yogi....the game doesn't change that much when you change teams.   It's still basketball with the same rules and dynamics.

I don't care what the numbers say. I got eyes and they told me everything I needed to know. 

[greenhead85]

Jeff Green is a great player.  He's going to be a top small forward for years to come.  His production for the Celtics last year should be understood with these points in mind. 
1) He's 24 years old.
2) He changed from a starter to a bench player.
3) He changed from a power forward to a small forward.
4) He was traded(a true trade) for the first time in his career by a move that NO ONE saw coming. 
5) He went from a full court run and gun offense centered around Westbrook and Durant chucking to a very complex, extra-pass, half court offense.
6) He went from a leader on a very young team, to the youngest rotation player on a veteran team.
7) Look at how Rondo was affected by Perk leaving, why shouldn't a younger Jeff Green not be affected by leaving his best friends Durant, Westbrook and Harden in Oklahoma?
   Despite all of this, he was still reasonably efficient and productive.  He's going to be a very good player.  With Rondo, Avery Bradley, Gilbert Brown, Jeff Green and JaJuan Johnson, I am looking forward to some fast breaks, dunks and alley-oops for a change. 

Agreed. How about E'Twaun Moore?

Some of Jeff Green's recent game highlights:

http://greenstreet.weei.com/sports/boston/basketball/celtics/2011/10/21/irish-coffee-top-5-plays-by-celtics-during-nba-lockout/

[Celtics4ever]

At that bottom of that post it mentioned Big Baby is mentoring a Laker.   We definitely to trade him now after that faux pas. 

[Yogi]

Jeff Green is a great player.  He's going to be a top small forward for years to come.  His production for the Celtics last year should be understood with these points in mind. 
1) He's 24 years old.
2) He changed from a starter to a bench player.
3) He changed from a power forward to a small forward.
4) He was traded(a true trade) for the first time in his career by a move that NO ONE saw coming. 
5) He went from a full court run and gun offense centered around Westbrook and Durant chucking to a very complex, extra-pass, half court offense.
6) He went from a leader on a very young team, to the youngest rotation player on a veteran team.
7) Look at how Rondo was affected by Perk leaving, why shouldn't a younger Jeff Green not be affected by leaving his best friends Durant, Westbrook and Harden in Oklahoma?
   Despite all of this, he was still reasonably efficient and productive.  He's going to be a very good player.  With Rondo, Avery Bradley, Gilbert Brown, Jeff Green and JaJuan Johnson, I am looking forward to some fast breaks, dunks and alley-oops for a change. 

Agreed. How about E'Twaun Moore?

Some of Jeff Green's recent game highlights:

http://greenstreet.weei.com/sports/boston/basketball/celtics/2011/10/21/irish-coffee-top-5-plays-by-celtics-during-nba-lockout/

   E'Twaun is not really that athletic.  He has Delonte West's game with less athleticism, quickness and strength.  He will have trouble staying in front of NBA guards and also he's terrible at running through picks.  But if he becomes stronger he might carve out some minutes.  He does have solid intangibles and versatility.  You can see a full game with him if you google Benetton Treviso and check the videos.
   Delonte West is pretty athletic but he's injury prone so I don't want to see him play above the rim too much. 

[mgent]

I think everyone, including myself expected Green to slot into a James Posey type role, but, with better athleticism.

It was a massive change of roles for him, and, I am quite confident that he will have a much better year this year with a training camp under his belt.

Agreed.  That's what was expected -- a super athletic James Posey.  That expectation was simply completely unrealistic.  Jeff Green is a good athlete with a well rounded game who can quietly give you 18-20 pts per 48 minutes along with a handful of rebounds and perhaps a block or a steal here and there.  

He's a solid swing forward with talent to start but not to be a featured guy in any sense.  So yes, he's a jack of all trades, but he isn't a glue guy in the same way Posey was for us in '08.  He doesn't have the swagger or play tenacious D, grab rebounds, and hit corner 3's seemingly automatically, especially in the 4th quarter.  Just very different players.

I like Jeff Green, but as long as people are expecting him to be our next Pierce / Reggie Lewis etc he's going to disappoint.

I think you guys are overstating the "massive change."  All we needed him to do was play the same way he did in OKC, and if he did he wouldn't have put up the same numbers, he would've put up better numbers because he was playing in a ball-moving system instead of a two-man team (like Krstic did).

Yeah, we thought he was gonna be something like Posey, because that's how Doc and Danny SAID they were gonna use him.  True, he came here to backup Ray and Paul, but his real value was that he could play PF for 5-10min a night and get Baby off the floor in crunch time.  He didn't have to bring swagger or lock-down D, we already had those, he just had to play better than a struggling (too kind?) Glen Davis.

And while we're on that topic, I think where he was supposed to be the most valuable was vs. Miami.  They played a LOT of small ball, while we had Big Baby on James Jones.  That team is all about athleticism, where Green and Davis are on opposite sides of the spectrum.  Green should've taken most, if not all of Baby's minutes in that series.

Unfortunately, he wasn't good enough to win Doc's trust.  It's also worth noting that he's a horrible fit for our team in my opinion.  It's not that he can't play at an 08-Posey-level, he just didn't

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

I think everyone, including myself expected Green to slot into a James Posey type role, but, with better athleticism.

It was a massive change of roles for him, and, I am quite confident that he will have a much better year this year with a training camp under his belt.

Agreed.  That's what was expected -- a super athletic James Posey.  That expectation was simply completely unrealistic.  Jeff Green is a good athlete with a well rounded game who can quietly give you 18-20 pts per 48 minutes along with a handful of rebounds and perhaps a block or a steal here and there.  

He's a solid swing forward with talent to start but not to be a featured guy in any sense.  So yes, he's a jack of all trades, but he isn't a glue guy in the same way Posey was for us in '08.  He doesn't have the swagger or play tenacious D, grab rebounds, and hit corner 3's seemingly automatically, especially in the 4th quarter.  Just very different players.

I like Jeff Green, but as long as people are expecting him to be our next Pierce / Reggie Lewis etc he's going to disappoint.

I think you guys are overstating the "massive change."  All we needed him to do was play the same way he did in OKC, and if he did he wouldn't have put up the same numbers, he would've put up better numbers because he was playing in a ball-moving system instead of a two-man team (like Krstic did).

Yeah, we thought he was gonna be something like Posey, because that's how Doc and Danny SAID they were gonna use him.  True, he came here to backup Ray and Paul, but his real value was that he could play PF for 5-10min a night and get Baby off the floor in crunch time.  He didn't have to bring swagger or lock-down D, we already had those, he just had to play better than a struggling (too kind?) Glen Davis.

And while we're on that topic, I think where he was supposed to be the most valuable was vs. Miami.  They played a LOT of small ball, while we had Big Baby on James Jones.  That team is all about athleticism, where Green and Davis are on opposite sides of the spectrum.  Green should've taken most, if not all of Baby's minutes in that series.

Unfortunately, he wasn't good enough to win Doc's trust.  It's also worth noting that he's a horrible fit for our team in my opinion.  It's not that he can't play at an 08-Posey-level, he just didn't

I think you are wrong about what they wanted him to come in and do! They asked him to be DIFFERENT than what he had been in OKC... they wanted him to be aggressive on offense and to try and be a first option off the BENCH. The difference, he was a starter in OKC and an afterthought on offense there! Now he is suppose to take shots from someone who has been here his entire career (a black hole in BBD who has a ring)? I think some of you have the wrong mindset, you are telling yourself that the trade was to get all that from JG this season (last) when I don't think they were thinking about it that way, I think he is for the future more than anything (not to mention, the numbers say he was performing about the same)! Also, I don't care how much better JG would do over BBD, Doc was going to give BBD his minutes no matter what! JG isn't the first player Doc doesn't give a chance over his "sons", all you have to do is ask... well, I don't need to mention names, you know who I'm talking about, you saw him in the playoffs! Of course you don't agree w/ the trade but don't act as if the guy was terrible!

[ScoobyDoo]

I agree with Yogi and I like Jeff Green. I thought he showed some decent talent on offense and as I recall he started playing some pretty decent defense on both Carmelo Anthony and LeBron James as we moved through the series.

I think we need to:

1. Give him a chance to gain some continuity in the Celtics system
2. Give him more time to gain Doc's trust.
3. Get him more minutes at small forward.
4. Get him on the break with a Rondo more often with an uptempo team out there.

I'd consider starting Green and bringing Pierce off the bench. Let Pierce play the classic sixth man role. But that probably necessary.

I'd just like to see Green at about 30-35 minutea a night next year.

I think he's an 18 and 6 guy at SF - and I think he has the physical tools to be a lock down defender. He needs time and work in the Celtics system to get there on D and he also needs to build his rep in the league and with the Refs as a hard nosed, edgy defender. He played some pretty aggressive, physical D late last year on occasion - he needs to get more consistent with that.

1-2 years from now - if we landed Howard?

Howard / Anyone
PF (Clipper Pick?) / JuJuan Johnson
Jeff Green
OG / Gilbert Brown
Rondo / DWest / Bradley

With the right guys at PF and OG you can win championships with that team.

I still like the Perkins trade, getting Green and a 1st.

Like when we lost in game 7 to the Lakers, were it not for injuries - we could easily be looking at 2-3 rings in these past four seasons.

I'm hoping we can land a couple right pieces once the lockout is over - stay healthy for once - and see Ray, Paul and KG hang one more banner together. Everything will be gravy after that.

5 years - three trips to the finals - two rings

Start rebuilding with

Howard ( Pipe dream, but I like to hang onto it)
KG - limited minutes / JJ
Pierce / Green
Clipper Pick? / Ray - limited Minutes / Gilbert Brown
Rondo / Dwest / Bradley

   

[Interceptor]

Ray is still good to put up serious time, he was #30 in the league last season for minutes played per game, and #13 for total minutes. Almost played as much as Wade did. KG is another story, though, he's toast after 30 minutes and that'll keep falling.

[TripleOT]

Green looked rather pathetic for a lot of his play with Boston. One big problem was that pre-trade, the  Cs had a very cohesive team with a lot of experience playing together, and both the new additions, the O'Neals, had tons of experience.

I think of Green as a soft, weak minded NBA player.  Despite decent size, he's a poor rebounder.  Despite good skills, he's a middling scorer.  Maybe he blossoms with Boston after being fully integrated here (if he re-ups), but without a full training, I'm sure the Green excuse posse will be out in full force when he continues to suck in a Celtics uniform when this season finally unfolds. 
   

[guava_wrench]

Year   Team   GP   GS   MPG   FG%   3P%   FT%   RPG   APG   SPG   BPG   PPG
10–11   OKC   49   49   37.0   .437   .304   .818     5.6      1.8       .8        .4       15.2
10–11   BOS   26   2   23.4   .485    .296    .794     3.3      .7       .5          .6        9.8

( I tried to organize the chart from Wikipedia)

If you look at him pre-trade, he was averaging over 3 quarters worth of minutes, and putting up 15pts/5reb on 44% shooting.

Post-trade, we cut him to under 2 quarters and he put up almost 10pts/3 reb on 49% shooting. His 3 point percentage went down, but why are we having a 6'9 SF/PF take 3 pointers when we have Ray and Paul on our team? Those shouldn't really be his area.

Then in the playoffs he put up this:
2011   Boston   9   0   19.2   .434   .438   .722   2.7   .2   .6   .4   7.3

His numbers only dropped accordingly with his minutes. His shooting% dropped a few points but his 3PT% went up A LOT (.296 to .438)

Green didn't have a slump in Boston, we didn't even give him a chance. We need to see what this kid can do in a full (by that I mean lockout shortened) season when he can start on back to backs in place of Paul or KG.

I'm not sure your analysis makes sense when people were already talking about him under-performing before he was traded.

[CoachBo]

I'd call it fair, about the same result Perkins produced in Oklahoma City.

Not as bad as the folks on this blog - who'd have given Perkins a blank check to stay in Boston - want you to believe, but then Perkins was a disappointment in OKC, too.

What people forget is that the sample size was small in both places, so reaching conclusions about the trade based on that sample size are wildly premature.

Be interesting to see how Green is utilized whenever basketball resumes.