Author Topic: The Amnesty Rule  (Read 20621 times)

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Re: The Amnesty Rule
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2011, 12:02:13 PM »

Offline StartOrien

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Not sure I agree there, not every team is going to want to spend the money. Waiving these players opens up a roster spot that has to be paid, and draws fan attention to "freed up" money

Re: The Amnesty Rule
« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2011, 12:59:40 PM »

Offline Who

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I looked it up to see how many teams used the amnesty last time around (2005). The articles I read stated that 18 teams who took advantage of the amnesty situation.

Although, a bunch of those player had already left their clubs (been bought out previously with their contracts still hanging on the club's cap). Vin Baker and the Celtics or Alonzo and Toronto for example. There was also Reggie Miller who had already retired.

So 11 teams out of 30 really. In terms of active players being waived. About a third of the league.



Quote
New York opted instead to release forward Jerome Williams to avoid $21.3 million in luxury taxes that would have been due over the next three seasons.

Dallas worked into the night trying to find a trade for Michael Finley, who is owed $51.8 million over the next three seasons. But the Mavericks ended up releasing the 10-year veteran instead.

In all, teams saved more than $212 million in future tax payments by waiving 18 players. Among those let go Monday were Fred Hoiberg of Minnesota, Ron Mercer of New Jersey, Calvin Booth of Milwaukee, Troy Bell of Memphis and Clarence Weatherspoon of Houston.

Several teams made moves to clear tax obligations for players who left their rosters long ago. They included Alonzo Mourning (Toronto), Vin Baker (Boston), Derrick Coleman (Detroit), Wesley Person (Miami), Eddie Robinson (Chicago) and Howard Eisley (Phoenix).

Players previously released under the amnesty program included Doug Christie (Orlando), Aaron McKie (Philadelphia), Brian Grant (Los Angeles Lakers) and Derek Anderson (Portland).

Teams whose payrolls exceed $61.7 million for the upcoming season will have to pay a dollar-for-dollar tax on the overage. Among them are the Indiana Pacers, who waived retired guard Reggie Miller to save $6 million in luxury tax costs.

Link

Re: The Amnesty Rule
« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2011, 01:12:34 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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I looked it up to see how many teams used the amnesty last time around (2005). The articles I read stated that 18 teams who took advantage of the amnesty situation.

Although, a bunch of those player had already left their clubs (been bought out previously with their contracts still hanging on the club's cap). Vin Baker and the Celtics or Alonzo and Toronto for example. There was also Reggie Miller who had already retired.

So 11 teams out of 30 really. In terms of active players being waived. About a third of the league.



Quote
New York opted instead to release forward Jerome Williams to avoid $21.3 million in luxury taxes that would have been due over the next three seasons.

Dallas worked into the night trying to find a trade for Michael Finley, who is owed $51.8 million over the next three seasons. But the Mavericks ended up releasing the 10-year veteran instead.

In all, teams saved more than $212 million in future tax payments by waiving 18 players. Among those let go Monday were Fred Hoiberg of Minnesota, Ron Mercer of New Jersey, Calvin Booth of Milwaukee, Troy Bell of Memphis and Clarence Weatherspoon of Houston.

Several teams made moves to clear tax obligations for players who left their rosters long ago. They included Alonzo Mourning (Toronto), Vin Baker (Boston), Derrick Coleman (Detroit), Wesley Person (Miami), Eddie Robinson (Chicago) and Howard Eisley (Phoenix).

Players previously released under the amnesty program included Doug Christie (Orlando), Aaron McKie (Philadelphia), Brian Grant (Los Angeles Lakers) and Derek Anderson (Portland).

Teams whose payrolls exceed $61.7 million for the upcoming season will have to pay a dollar-for-dollar tax on the overage. Among them are the Indiana Pacers, who waived retired guard Reggie Miller to save $6 million in luxury tax costs.

Link

There was a key difference there, though, in that amnesty only applied to luxury tax, and didn't give any cap space. 

Also, the other key difference could be that teams get two years to decide whether to use their amnesty or not:

Quote
    Sources say that there’s a determined push led by San Antonio Spurs owner Peter Holt to allow teams to have at least two years to decide whether or not to amnesty one player, with multiple sources telling ESPN.com this week that they believe the concept — with restrictions that are still being haggled over — has indeed won sufficient support to be included in the new labor deal.

    Six years ago, teams had only two weeks to decide whether to use the amnesty clause or lose it forever. Now? There is a growing likelihood that teams will be able to “save” their amnesty clause through next season, or perhaps beyond.

That could end up being a big deal.  Some teams will want to wait to see whether injured stars (say, Brandon Roy, or Greg Oden if the Blazers sign him to an extension) recover before cutting them.

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/10/28/report-teams-may-have-two-years-to-use-amnesty-clause?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Lastly, the article above notes that it's probable that the waiver would only account for 75% of a player's cap figure, rather than the entire salary.


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Re: The Amnesty Rule
« Reply #18 on: October 28, 2011, 01:24:30 PM »

Offline Kane3387

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You beat me to it Roy.

I was just about to say that the old Amnesty Rule only applied to the luxury tax and not to the salary cap as well. This Amnesty Rule is a lot more powerful then the ones from 1999 and 2005.

http://www.sbnation.com/2011/9/22/2442003/nba-lockout-2011-amnesty-clause


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Re: The Amnesty Rule
« Reply #19 on: October 28, 2011, 01:41:21 PM »

Offline Who

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Also, the other key difference could be that teams get two years to decide whether to use their amnesty or not:

Quote
    Sources say that there’s a determined push led by San Antonio Spurs owner Peter Holt to allow teams to have at least two years to decide whether or not to amnesty one player, with multiple sources telling ESPN.com this week that they believe the concept — with restrictions that are still being haggled over — has indeed won sufficient support to be included in the new labor deal.

    Six years ago, teams had only two weeks to decide whether to use the amnesty clause or lose it forever. Now? There is a growing likelihood that teams will be able to “save” their amnesty clause through next season, or perhaps beyond.

That could end up being a big deal.  Some teams will want to wait to see whether injured stars (say, Brandon Roy, or Greg Oden if the Blazers sign him to an extension) recover before cutting them.

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/10/28/report-teams-may-have-two-years-to-use-amnesty-clause?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
Wow, that would be huge.

Two years to decide would lead to far more teams taking advantage of the amnesty.

I am skeptical that they'll receive that though.

Re: The Amnesty Rule
« Reply #20 on: October 28, 2011, 02:14:16 PM »

Offline Chris

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Also, the other key difference could be that teams get two years to decide whether to use their amnesty or not:

Quote
    Sources say that there’s a determined push led by San Antonio Spurs owner Peter Holt to allow teams to have at least two years to decide whether or not to amnesty one player, with multiple sources telling ESPN.com this week that they believe the concept — with restrictions that are still being haggled over — has indeed won sufficient support to be included in the new labor deal.

    Six years ago, teams had only two weeks to decide whether to use the amnesty clause or lose it forever. Now? There is a growing likelihood that teams will be able to “save” their amnesty clause through next season, or perhaps beyond.

That could end up being a big deal.  Some teams will want to wait to see whether injured stars (say, Brandon Roy, or Greg Oden if the Blazers sign him to an extension) recover before cutting them.

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/10/28/report-teams-may-have-two-years-to-use-amnesty-clause?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
Wow, that would be huge.

Two years to decide would lead to far more teams taking advantage of the amnesty.

I am skeptical that they'll receive that though.

My guess is if they do give a 2 year window, it would still only be allowed for contracts that were signed on the old CBA.  It would make absolutely no sense to allow teams to sign guys this year (like say, Oden), and then use the Amnesty on them, since it is supposed to be in place to bridge the gap between the two systems.


Re: The Amnesty Rule
« Reply #21 on: October 28, 2011, 02:17:23 PM »

Offline Jeff

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I'm all for the amnesty because I think the league suffers from these guaranteed contracts - on the other hand, I don't think it helps the Celtics much if at all in the short term

oh well, just give me basketball back
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Re: The Amnesty Rule
« Reply #22 on: October 28, 2011, 02:25:04 PM »

Offline StartOrien

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Are there clauses to prevent teams from doing wink-wink, nudge-nudge deals?

Could we amnesty Pierce next season and then resign him to a minimum contract? Meaning we could have just Rondo and Pierce (at the minimum) under contract

Re: The Amnesty Rule
« Reply #23 on: October 28, 2011, 02:29:35 PM »

Offline Chris

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I'm all for the amnesty because I think the league suffers from these guaranteed contracts - on the other hand, I don't think it helps the Celtics much if at all in the short term

oh well, just give me basketball back

Well, I think it can help them a lot if quality (but overpaid) become available this offseason, such as Brandon Roy, or Haywood.

Re: The Amnesty Rule
« Reply #24 on: October 28, 2011, 02:47:33 PM »

Offline xmuscularghandix

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I'm all for the amnesty because I think the league suffers from these guaranteed contracts - on the other hand, I don't think it helps the Celtics much if at all in the short term

oh well, just give me basketball back

Well, I think it can help them a lot if quality (but overpaid) become available this offseason, such as Brandon Roy, or Haywood.

Especially if those guys are already being paid big money by other teams. It will be very much like the waiver period every season... only Roy and Lewis are much better than Carlos Arroyo.

Re: The Amnesty Rule
« Reply #25 on: October 28, 2011, 03:10:31 PM »

Offline StartOrien

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I'm all for the amnesty because I think the league suffers from these guaranteed contracts - on the other hand, I don't think it helps the Celtics much if at all in the short term

oh well, just give me basketball back

Well, I think it can help them a lot if quality (but overpaid) become available this offseason, such as Brandon Roy, or Haywood.

Especially if those guys are already being paid big money by other teams. It will be very much like the waiver period every season... only Roy and Lewis are much better than Carlos Arroyo.

in YOUR opinion

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Re: The Amnesty Rule
« Reply #26 on: October 28, 2011, 04:18:41 PM »

Offline heitingas

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http://hoopshype.com/salaries/la_lakers.htm

this benefits only the lakers, if they can use it for 2 years then they amnesty Gasol, and won't excersise team options to Bynum and Odom and then sign Howard.


Re: The Amnesty Rule
« Reply #27 on: October 28, 2011, 04:34:35 PM »

Offline Kane3387

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http://hoopshype.com/salaries/la_lakers.htm

this benefits only the lakers, if they can use it for 2 years then they amnesty Gasol, and won't excersise team options to Bynum and Odom and then sign Howard.



Great and then Gasol goes to Miami on a minimum deal..


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Re: The Amnesty Rule
« Reply #28 on: October 28, 2011, 04:37:23 PM »

Offline Chris

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http://hoopshype.com/salaries/la_lakers.htm

this benefits only the lakers, if they can use it for 2 years then they amnesty Gasol, and won't excersise team options to Bynum and Odom and then sign Howard.



It also benefits the Spurs, who can make one more run at it, then cut Jefferson loose.  Or the C's, who could do the same thing with Pierce (although I don't think they would, unless he wanted to retire).

Ultimately though, I would be shocked if this version of the rule was even seriously discussed.  It sounds like somethign that was thrown out there by Holt (because it would benefit him), but that wouldn't get past the majority of small market owners, let alone the players (who would rightfully point out that it defeats the purpose, which should be just to re-align your team to work under the new CBA, not to give you a free Muligan whenever you want).

Re: The Amnesty Rule
« Reply #29 on: October 30, 2011, 07:16:10 AM »

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Report: Howard Beck of NY Times

Quote
Tentative agreements are already in place on the following major items:

¶ Amnesty clause: Each team will be permitted to waive one player, with pay — anytime during the life of the C.B.A. — and have his salary be exempt from the cap and the luxury tax. Its use will be limited to players already under contract as of July 1, 2011.

A tentative agreement? Wow. To use the amnesty at anytime over the life of the CBA.