Do you really want guys like KG and Pierce determining the lockout length?

[LarBrd33]

Barely paying attention to this lockout.  Actually, I'm barely paying attention to the Celtics and the NBA in general until this is resolved... so maybe you can consider me an outsider.  

But I still glance at ESPN and Celticsblog every couple days to see if we have a season yet...  and here's my impression:

You got a bunch of billionaire owners and the commish trying to fix a broken system...  

You got the player's association (Billy Hunter and... Derek Fisher?... eh... ok) trying to keep things the way they are...

And when it looks like they MIGHT be making some kind of progress, in steps KG, Paul Pierce, Dwayne Wade, etc.  

These are a bunch of hotheads.  Confidence is an asset in this league.  A guy like Paul Pierce needs to tell himself he's the best player in the world even if he knows deep down it's not true.   A guy like KG thrives off the concept of a "brotherhood", sacrifice, being there for his boys.   Great assets on the court, but when you bring them into this situation you're introducing a bunch of hothead, over-confident team players who will rally around each other and refuse to accept failure.  

It's probably utterly impossible to get them to bend.  Bad idea to have them involved.  When they feel challenged, they are programmed not back down from it.    

Seems like the only way it could get resolved is for a 3rd party to step in and explain to both sides the best compromise.
 

[GreenFaith1819]

In any event, the next few weeks will be interesting.

I think that Charles Barkley and Reggie Miller's comments today on NBA TV Gametime were spot on, though.

I think those two articulated for me, from a fan's perspective, how things are.

[LarBrd33]

In any event, the next few weeks will be interesting.

I think that Charles Barkley and Reggie Miller's comments today on NBA TV Gametime were spot on, though.

I think those two articulated for me, from a fan's perspective, how things are.

is this online at all?

[4THQTR]

In any event, the next few weeks will be interesting.

I think that Charles Barkley and Reggie Miller's comments today on NBA TV Gametime were spot on, though.

I think those two articulated for me, from a fan's perspective, how things are.

is this online at all?

I suppose this must be it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_OqzmTCtIQ

[D Dub]

Yes, actually.

While Hunter and Fisher have been undressing themselves, it's good to see the NBPA bring dudes that ownership can't help but to respect.

These ownership demands are PURE greed.  

Don't believe for a second these clowns are losing money.  They all make bank when they sell, & most own everything surrounding the arena --- profits they choose not to factor.

Would like nothing more than the NBPA to call their bluff and sit out the season.  
Long term, it would be better for the league to let these owners lose out trying to employ these 'crapitalism' tactics...

[GreenFaith1819]

Thanks for the assist 4THQTR that is the clip I mentioned.

[4THQTR]

Thanks for the assist 4THQTR that is the clip I mentioned.

U are welcome.

Thanks for actually mentioning it, as I would've probably missed it if u hadn't done so and it's def worth watching/listening.

[Roy H.]

Long term, it would be better for the league to let these owners lose out trying to employ these 'crapitalism' tactics...

Why so?  If things continue as they're going, there will continue to be increasing revenue gaps between small and large market teams, and increasing competitive imbalance.

I don't have a rooting interest between players and owners, but I do think the owners' proposed system would be better for the league as a whole.

As for the topic of the thread, I agree, bringing in guys like KG and Pierce is great for solidifying the players, but bad for achieving a deal.

[BASS_THUMPER]

i need players like paul..

im still hatin on kev because he said no to comin to boston at first..

when we signed ray he couldnt pack is nap sack quick enuff..

much respect to ray tho..

[dtrader]

It's not a fair analysis of the situation to say that the owners are trying to fix the system, and the players are just trying to keep things as they are.  If that were the case, the players would be calling for 57% of revenue.  Theyre not.  They themselves offered to drop it to 54%, so that they could help "fix the system", while retaining a majority share.  Since then, they've come down to stating that they'd take 53%. 

I think it's great to have players like PP and KG involved.  Maybe if it was a bunch of pushovers at the table, the season would start sooner, but I'd lose some respect for the players if they didnt at least show some business savy, and try to negotiate to the best of their ability (especially when I am of the opinion, that the owners carry the bigger blame for the systems failures).

[Kane3387]

It's not a fair analysis of the situation to say that the owners are trying to fix the system, and the players are just trying to keep things as they are.  If that were the case, the players would be calling for 57% of revenue.  Theyre not.  They themselves offered to drop it to 54%, so that they could help "fix the system", while retaining a majority share.  Since then, they've come down to stating that they'd take 53%. 

I think it's great to have players like PP and KG involved.  Maybe if it was a bunch of pushovers at the table, the season would start sooner, but I'd lose some respect for the players if they didnt at least show some business savy, and try to negotiate to the best of their ability (especially when I am of the opinion, that the owners carry the bigger blame for the systems failures).

These players aren't really business men though... Sure some are, but the majority aren't. Just because you make a lot of money doesn't mean you understand business. There is a reason most of these guys go broke after about ten years. Reggie and Barkley are right. There needs to be more checks and balances and the system needs to be more like the NFL then MLB.

If CP3 went to NY and Howard to LA then whats the point in even watching until late May?

[LarBrd33]

Just saw the latest Celticsblog post:  http://www.celticsblog.com/2011/10/15/2492859/garnett-pierce-and-kobe-may-have-teamed-up-to-kill-deal ...

Good to see that even in the offseason... while barely paying attention... my instincts are still spot on.  NBA fan intuition... what a useless skill to have.  

[CaptainJackLee]

Long term, it would be better for the league to let these owners lose out trying to employ these 'crapitalism' tactics...

Why so?  If things continue as they're going, there will continue to be increasing revenue gaps between small and large market teams

And how is wage suppression going to solve the revenue gap problem?

It won't - it just doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

This is exactly like the NHL deal you praise - 2 years after it, there are already teams struggling to even meet the minimum salary roll.

I'd love to hear people who support the owners plan now in 5 years when the owners start saying that the share of the players needs to go down to 35% or so because there are too many teams losing too much money.

---------

Garnett and Pierce don't determine anything. It's cool for the union to have these high-paid veterans firmly on their side though - they're the ones with less to lose in case the owners proposals were accepted. So it transmits a sense of togetherness that is important.

[chambers]

Yes, actually.

While Hunter and Fisher have been undressing themselves, it's good to see the NBPA bring dudes that ownership can't help but to respect.

These ownership demands are PURE greed.  

Don't believe for a second these clowns are losing money.  They all make bank when they sell, & most own everything surrounding the arena --- profits they choose not to factor.

Would like nothing more than the NBPA to call their bluff and sit out the season.  
Long term, it would be better for the league to let these owners lose out trying to employ these 'crapitalism' tactics...

Actually that's not true.
Profits that are related to the game and surrounding the arena that the owners make, the players get 57% of that.
That's called BRI. They just want a larger profit for taking financial risks.
I'm on the players side though, and although as a fan it's annoying when you hear that KG and Pierce won't back down, it does send a message to the owners that these guys are deadly serious and that you can't intimidate everyone.

[hwangjini_1]

in response to the thread title...

well, i dont have any say in who determines parameters of the lockout. hence, my wishes/wants/desires are not relevant. (not unlike many other things in life it seems.)

next, i would prefer them  doing it instead of me since as bad as they may be, they still know a lot more about the specifics than i do.

next, next...since they are the ones who will really be affected most by the lockout, they should have more right to determine than i do.

ok, next topic.