Amare suggests that the players start their own league

[Chris]

Hypothetically speaking, if the players started their own league, they would, I am sure, become part owners as well as being players.

So short term they would make less money, maybe a lot less. But if this new league became successful, long term they this group of players would benefit much more than the money they lose out on now and they could structure a system that would address the needs and future of all incoming players.

Yeah, I know that's a utopian way of looking at things but it is also a capitalistic way of looking at things. Lose the money now by investing in the new league and if successful, reap the rewards later.

Personally, I don't think they could pull it off but I don't think they should throw the idea away either. It could work if they get proper guidance and some crafty businessmen involved initially.

Right, and 5-10 years down the line, as this group of players become just owners, you have a new group of players who won't have that cut of the pie.

But that old group that become owners would probably give the new group a 55-57% share of BRI. So mission achieved. The old players/team owners sacrifice now for their own good and also to keep the system they believe in for future players.

Tell that to Michael Jordan.

[Finkelskyhook]

It's like any other league where some players are smart enough to match up with blind GMs.  Some players are overpaid. (O'Neal, Lackey etc) But ultimately it's what their market will bear.  I don't spite the players for what they make.  

However, from a revenue standpoint...I find it absurd that the players share in that at all...Let alone the majority of it.  They're guaranteed a salary.  The owners aren't guaranteed a profit.

That said....
From an owner's standpoint, I'd see mindless things like Stoudemire said as a sign of abject panic and weakness.  He sounds more like a petulent child not getting his way than a rational person.

[nickagneta]

Good point. BTW, has there been any quotes from Jordan regarding where he personally stands on these matters?

[Chris]

Good point. BTW, has there been any quotes from Jordan regarding where he personally stands on these matters?

I don't think so.  And I am sure the other owners have told him to keep his mouth shut.  He is in a no-win position.  He can't say anything to support the players, because it will either be seen as condescending, or abandoning the owners, and he can't say anything against the players because it just makes him look like a hypocrit.  So, he is essentially in hiding until this is over.

[Chris]

That said....
From an owner's standpoint, I'd see mindless things like Stoudemire said as a sign of abject panic and weakness.  He sounds more like a petulent child not getting his way than a rational person.

Well, I think Amare's was more rational than a lot of the stuff out there (Really Wade?  It was Stern's words that hurt everyone?  Not the decisions being made by the owners and players?), but I agree that these type of things are only hurting the players cases.

If the players just shut their mouths, but came out with a legitimate alternative, then maybe they would gain some leverage.  But all this talk just shows how unprepared the players are.

[wdleehi]

Unless the players are willing to put up most of their money (because with the way most NBA players spend, they probably are going to need that much to start up), go for it.



Good luck getting a good business man to put up that amount of money when at any moment, the players could crack and sign a new deal with the NBA, leaving out the new league investors with a league set up with no players. 

[Chris]

Good luck getting a good business man to put up that amount of money when at any moment, the players could crack and sign a new deal with the NBA, leaving out the new league investors with a league set up with no players. 

Well, this is the smoking gun for this whole idea.  While there is a chance they could find someone to make a rogue league that will challenge the NBA, no one is going to invest what is needed to make it legitimate, without getting longterm commitments by the star players, even if the NBA returns. 

That is also why the NBA isn't worried about losing players to Europe.  So far, no one even close to a star has been willing to commit to a long-term deal without an out-clause for the NBA (although granted, the majority of the premier players are under contract, so can't do that).  So, the message to the owners so far has been "we'll hang out over here, promoting ourselves, and by proxy, the NBA, but as soon as you need us, holler, and we'll be right back".

None of this will change until next year, when some of the stars will be free to sign anywhere.  That is when we will see if they will be ready to leave the NBA or not. 

[bdm860]

This all kind of reminds me of And1.

Here’s a company that came out of nowhere in the late 90’s, started playing games in a few cities, grew to a national tour, got television and video game deals and sponsors, and were considered very successful (I believe they even claimed to have like over half the NBA players wearing their shoes on the court at one point).  In the mid/late 2000’s I think more kids knew and could easily recognize The Professor, Escalade, AO, Main Event, Spyda etc. over NBA starter caliber players like Kirk Hinrich, James Posey, Brevin Knight, Andre Miller, Troy Murphy, Bruce Bowen, etc. and even All-Star caliber players like Joe Johnson, Rashard Lewis, Micahel Redd, Jamal Magloire.  Put it this way, if The Professor and Hot Sauce were in the mall standing next to Kirk Hinrich and Brevin Knight, there would be a huge line of people trying to get autographs, but not from the NBA players.  I believe (but not certain) And1 was the highest rated original programming on ESPN, and their DVD’s were the best selling sports DVDs in the mid 2000’s.

So the fact that essentially a streetball company came out of nowhere, was playing in NBA arenas (although many probably not even half full), had a major TV deal, had strong video game and DVD sales, had national sponsors, and just gained a big following, makes me think maybe the players with the right financing/support/marketing could somehow form a legitimate league.

But then on the flip side…

Anyone seen the And1 tour lately?   I guess it fell apart around 2008, know why?  I believe more than half of their players left the company to form their own brand/tour called Ball4Real.  Ever heard of it?  Probably not, it never really got off the ground.  But the players felt like they were underpaid while the company was bringing in about a billion dollars a year in sales off all their work and popularity of the players.  They were unhappy with the direction of the company and thought they could do better by themselves.  Turned out they couldn’t.

So situations like that make think any players league is doomed to fail.

[Chris]

The And1 comparison is an interesting one.  I think that is actually a much more likely model for some of the players to follow, and bring in some extra cash during the lockout...in fact, they have been doing it.

It really is just a barnstorming show type thing, rather than an actual league.  Go from city to city, rent out gyms or arenas, play essentially a glorified pickup game, or perhaps a small tournament, charging essentially NBA prices for tickets, and then move on to the next city.

The fans should show up for the most part, despite the lack of team cohesion or alegiance, just because it is more of a limited edition event, and will pay the money for the one or two games.

It also will not have a lot of overhead, because they will basically just be renting the place for the night, won't need a lot of organization, or anything like that, so the majority of the money can go straight to the players.

But it is a far cry from a legitimate league. 

[Finkelskyhook]

But that old group that become owners would probably give the new group a 55-57% share of BRI. So mission achieved. The old players/team owners sacrifice now for their own good and also to keep the system they believe in for future players.

The difference is the players back then compared to now.  The Jordan era brought in one narcissistic diva....But that diva was one with intelligence, focused like a laser beam on to his NBA status, and image, and a work ethic to match.  Jordan also had a commissioner brilliant enough to capitalize and enhance Jordan's image.  

I think Stern has done a much better job of keeping the league growing post-Jordan.  When you have to hang your league's hat on Allen Iverson, and you can continue to grow the product...

The problem is you have a bunch of narcissists now who are only about them.  The messiah's talent may be on a par with Jordan...But his IQ would fit under Jordan's thumbnail.  There are too many egos who lack intelligence in today's game.  They appear to be fragmented at best...They're also saying....And doing some of the dumbest things imaginable from a bargaining standpoint.  Jordan may have been able to lead enough to give the players credibility...But it's frankly, silly to think that a group led by a sleazy Derek Fisher....With it's hat hung on somebody like the messiah...Would be willing to wait this out based on the far-long term greater good.  

The messiah sure as hell is no Curt Flood.

[Finkelskyhook]

The And1 comparison is an interesting one.  I think that is actually a much more likely model for some of the players to follow, and bring in some extra cash during the lockout...in fact, they have been doing it.

It really is just a barnstorming show type thing, rather than an actual league.  Go from city to city, rent out gyms or arenas, play essentially a glorified pickup game, or perhaps a small tournament, charging essentially NBA prices for tickets, and then move on to the next city.

The fans should show up for the most part, despite the lack of team cohesion or alegiance, just because it is more of a limited edition event, and will pay the money for the one or two games.

It also will not have a lot of overhead, because they will basically just be renting the place for the night, won't need a lot of organization, or anything like that, so the majority of the money can go straight to the players.

But it is a far cry from a legitimate league.  

Good post, Chris.

But the way the NBA games have been officiated since Jordan, a person could say the same thing about the NBA.

[nickagneta]

But that old group that become owners would probably give the new group a 55-57% share of BRI. So mission achieved. The old players/team owners sacrifice now for their own good and also to keep the system they believe in for future players.

The difference is the players back then compared to now.  The Jordan era brought in one narcissistic diva....But that diva was one with intelligence, focused like a laser beam on to his NBA status, and image, and a work ethic to match.  Jordan also had a commissioner brilliant enough to capitalize and enhance Jordan's image.  

I think Stern has done a much better job of keeping the league growing post-Jordan.  When you have to hang your league's hat on Allen Iverson, and you can continue to grow the product...

The problem is you have a bunch of narcissists now who are only about them.  The messiah's talent may be on a par with Jordan...But his IQ would fit under Jordan's thumbnail.  There are too many egos who lack intelligence in today's game.  They appear to be fragmented at best...They're also saying....And doing some of the dumbest things imaginable from a bargaining standpoint.  Jordan may have been able to lead enough to give the players credibility...But it's frankly, silly to think that a group led by a sleazy Derek Fisher....With it's hat hung on somebody like the messiah...Would be willing to wait this out based on the far-long term greater good.  

The messiah sure as hell is no Curt Flood.

Can't say as I disagree with you there. I don't think players league would be successful UNLESS they got someone like who could be that league's Stern.

[thirstyboots18]

But that old group that become owners would probably give the new group a 55-57% share of BRI. So mission achieved. The old players/team owners sacrifice now for their own good and also to keep the system they believe in for future players.

The difference is the players back then compared to now.  The Jordan era brought in one narcissistic diva....But that diva was one with intelligence, focused like a laser beam on to his NBA status, and image, and a work ethic to match.  Jordan also had a commissioner brilliant enough to capitalize and enhance Jordan's image.  

I think Stern has done a much better job of keeping the league growing post-Jordan.  When you have to hang your league's hat on Allen Iverson, and you can continue to grow the product...

The problem is you have a bunch of narcissists now who are only about them.  The messiah's talent may be on a par with Jordan...But his IQ would fit under Jordan's thumbnail.  There are too many egos who lack intelligence in today's game.  They appear to be fragmented at best...They're also saying....And doing some of the dumbest things imaginable from a bargaining standpoint.  Jordan may have been able to lead enough to give the players credibility...But it's frankly, silly to think that a group led by a sleazy Derek Fisher....With it's hat hung on somebody like the messiah...Would be willing to wait this out based on the far-long term greater good.  

The messiah sure as hell is no Curt Flood.

If they did form another league, there would go LeBron's last chance to get an NBA ring, and his pretense to be on of the best to ever play in the NBA.

[dark_lord]

 Go from city to city, rent out gyms or arenas, play essentially a glorified pickup game,

The fans should show up for the most part, despite the lack of team cohesion or alegiance, just because it is more of a limited edition event, and will pay the money for the one or two games.

u just described the nba all star game

[bdm860]

The And1 comparison is an interesting one.  I think that is actually a much more likely model for some of the players to follow, and bring in some extra cash during the lockout...in fact, they have been doing it.

It really is just a barnstorming show type thing, rather than an actual league.  Go from city to city, rent out gyms or arenas, play essentially a glorified pickup game, or perhaps a small tournament, charging essentially NBA prices for tickets, and then move on to the next city.

The fans should show up for the most part, despite the lack of team cohesion or alegiance, just because it is more of a limited edition event, and will pay the money for the one or two games.

It also will not have a lot of overhead, because they will basically just be renting the place for the night, won't need a lot of organization, or anything like that, so the majority of the money can go straight to the players.

But it is a far cry from a legitimate league. 

Good post, Chris.

But the way the NBA games have been officiated since Jordan, a person could say the same thing about the NBA.

Lol (at the Iverson line)

But I wasn’t so much talking so much about the And1 “business model”, but more about how a little company became a well-known world-wide basketball entertainment brand out of nowhere.  You don’t necessarily need to be a big, established company to make things happen on a global level.  Within a short period of time (and I imagine with minimal capital) And1 had a lot of things going for it that a lot of the skeptics never think a new league could achieve: TV deals, video games, top selling DVDs, products in every sports store, a global presence, etc.

Also And1 had billion-dollar, established competitors trying to replicate/steal its success as Nike tried to go the streetball route with its own tournaments and players, but nothing really ever came of it.

So here’s And1, out of nowhere, doing things in a major way; while its much larger, established competitors can’t stop it.  Then teamed with the irony that what seemed to stop And1’s success was its own player’s greed I think is a fair comparison to the possibility of what a new league could achieve but also what might doom it at the same time lol.