Author Topic: Greedy Billionaires?  (Read 6083 times)

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Greedy Billionaires?
« on: October 11, 2011, 09:41:15 AM »

Offline Coach

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Greedy Billionaires?

Who likes a billionaire?

Not me.  Those guys sleeping on mattress stuffed with $100 bills can pound sand.  That smug Mark Cuban should wipe that condescending smile off his smug face. Am I right, or am I right?

See, that’s the card these multi-millionaire players are playing.  Making us feel bad for these poor players.  And you know what?  It almost worked on me.  And then I remembered, when I rose to go to work at 6:00am, making the kids lunch, driving my 2000 Honda Odyseey, that you know what?  Those players have it pretty good, too.  They play a sport for a living, and make millions of dollars doing it.

The other card they play a lot is that they claim that they are the product.  They are the talent.  If not for them, there would be no league.  While this seems obviously true, it is very misleading.   When the players say, “they are the talent”, who, specifically are they referring to?  The top 20 players who are the majority of the drawing card?  The top 50?  100?  What I don’t understand is, what do they mean?  Are they saying, without them, there would be no NBA?

The reality is, you could wipe out the top 50 players tomorrow, and they would be replaced by 50 more, in a flash.   We’d forget about them.  Sure we would say, “What if we still had Lebron playing?”  Then we’d shrug our shoulders and go watch the next great player.   The reality is, the NBA would march on, and wouldn’t lose a beat.   We’d find ourselves with new favorite players, and we would still look forward to the Celtics – Lakers games, and Christmas Day would still be filled with great basketball.  Why?  Because the NBA marketing machine would tell us so.  They would have us believing that the next great NBA game was about to happen, and after all, this game is “Fan-tastic”, so tune in and don’t miss one thunderous dunk.

You see, I believe that the players are not the product.  I believe that the product is the NBA’s ability to market basketball. 

Want proof?

Regularly on this site, we have the old bar argument.  Who is the best of all time?  The latest one, and the one that won’t go away, is who is better?  Russell vs Jordan.  You could argue one way or the other.  You can talk about Russell’s defense, or Jordan’s high flying act.  At the end of the day, neither side wins.  However, there is no argument who made more money.  Bill Russell was one of the highest paid players in his era, and it pales in comparison of what Jordan made in his playing days, and continues to earn afterwards.

So tell me…is this because Jordan’s ability is so much greater then Russell’s, or is this because the NBA owners, and Commissioner Stern, have become really good at marketing?  Yes they took advantage of the modern technology, satellite TV, the internet, etc…but without this expertise, the players wouldn’t be sharing in over TWO BILLION DOLLARS of salary in the form of GUARANTEED CONTACTS!!!  They don’t fly around in private jets.  They don’t have locker rooms that many of us would want for our house.  And they don’t earn extra millions on shoe contacts, product endorsements, and appearance fees.

So yes, I do believe they players deserve their cut.  They deserve a 50-50 split of revenue.  But what’s wrong with a semi-hard cap?  What’s wrong with shorter contracts?  Especially if they are guaranteed?  What’s wrong with having to earn your check?

I don’t really care if these Billionaires make one red cent from their investment of hundreds of millions of dollars.  But why should the players expect the owners to subsidize the fans watching experience..and their salaries?  Last year, in a banner year for revenues, they lost 300 million dollars, just so the fans could enjoy watching NBA basketball.  And the owners are the ones at fault here? 

I don’t get it.

Re: Greedy Billionaires?
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2011, 09:46:35 AM »

Offline Inside-Out

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Dude, where did you get the money to drive a Honda?

Re: Greedy Billionaires?
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2011, 09:49:07 AM »

Offline Moranis

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I am guessing guys like Cuban, Dolan, Bus, etc. aren't the drivers of this lockout. 
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Re: Greedy Billionaires?
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2011, 09:54:19 AM »

Offline Chris

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The more I have read today, and the more I have thought about it, I have realized that greed is not what killed this deal.  It is ego, but much more, it is a fundamental disagreement of where the league should go.

The money is not what killed this deal...the system did.  Bottom line is that the players refuse to agree to anything resembling a hard cap, and the owners refuse to accept a deal that doesn't have that.

The owners have decided that they no longer want a league where big markets have a huge advantage over markets who can't afford to pay that much.

While the bottom line is still the key here, the problem is that the owners believe that the bottom line can only be maximized for BOTH sides, if they are able to essentially emulate the NFL, and have a league where any team can contend, no matter how small the market.  

I am on the fence with whether I agree with them or not (I think basketball is very different than football...but I also don't think the league of haves and have-nots is a good thing either), but I think its pretty clear that the owners will not agree to a deal without rectifying this.

Re: Greedy Billionaires?
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2011, 09:56:35 AM »

Online Roy H.

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Yeah, it's hard to feel sorry for any of those involved here.  As I posted elsewhere, even a player earning the rookie minimum is in the top 1% of all wage earners in this country. 

I think your point about how the players aren't the only ones responsible for growing the game is a good point, too.  Stern has made the players a ton of money with his marketing and growing of the game.  It's not totally a one way street.


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Re: Greedy Billionaires?
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2011, 10:03:20 AM »

Online Roy H.

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The owners have decided that they no longer want a league where big markets have a huge advantage over markets who can't afford to pay that much.

While the bottom line is still the key here, the problem is that the owners believe that the bottom line can only be maximized for BOTH sides, if they are able to essentially emulate the NFL, and have a league where any team can contend, no matter how small the market.  

I am on the fence with whether I agree with them or not (I think basketball is very different than football...but I also don't think the league of haves and have-nots is a good thing either), but I think its pretty clear that the owners will not agree to a deal without rectifying this.

How does hockey fit in here?  My guess is that it's led to more competitive small markets, and it's certainly led to less of a payroll gap.  Has it made the game better or worse?

(My vote is for better, being a Bruins fan.  Red Wings fans may disagree, though.)


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Re: Greedy Billionaires?
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2011, 10:10:20 AM »

Offline Chris

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The owners have decided that they no longer want a league where big markets have a huge advantage over markets who can't afford to pay that much.

While the bottom line is still the key here, the problem is that the owners believe that the bottom line can only be maximized for BOTH sides, if they are able to essentially emulate the NFL, and have a league where any team can contend, no matter how small the market.  

I am on the fence with whether I agree with them or not (I think basketball is very different than football...but I also don't think the league of haves and have-nots is a good thing either), but I think its pretty clear that the owners will not agree to a deal without rectifying this.

How does hockey fit in here?  My guess is that it's led to more competitive small markets, and it's certainly led to less of a payroll gap.  Has it made the game better or worse?

(My vote is for better, being a Bruins fan.  Red Wings fans may disagree, though.)

Hockey definitely makes me lean towards a hard cap system.  I think it has worked very well for them, and I think they came up with a great system that maintains guaranteed contracts, while still allowing teams to get dead weight off the cap in a reasonable manner.

However, I do think there is a strong argument that hockey is much closer to football than basketball.  Much like football, hockey is a true team game.  You can win with a bunch of solid players fitting together just right.  In basketball, I think you really do need superstars to win.

Although that is probably more of an argument against max contracts than it is against a hard cap.

I think the best solution would be a hybrid, with a hard cap that can only be exceeded for star players (essentially a non-exclusive franchise tag type system).  But the players would never agree to it, even though I think it would be better for the game.

Re: Greedy Billionaires?
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2011, 10:17:12 AM »

Offline bdm860

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I don’t know who I’m for (probably the players), but I do think a problem with the players is it seems they’re focused too much on their piece of the pie.  It seems to me like they want the biggest piece, regardless of the size.

Without the NBA’s marketing, state-of-the-art arenas, global presence and initiatives, etc., then the players would be getting a whole lot less. (Like in the Russell/Jordan comparison by Coach).

Would you rather get 75% of a $1b pie, 57% of a $4b pie, or 50% of a $5b pie?  (Hint: if you want the most money you take 50% of $5b).

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Re: Greedy Billionaires?
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2011, 10:17:28 AM »

Offline wdleehi

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Greedy Millionaires as well.  


The system is great and all until you root for a small market team that can't afford to put in the money.  



I think the system needs to be redone.  It can be redone and the NBA players will still be the highest payed team players in the US.  (possibly the world)  For a sport that doesn't bring in the highest revenue.  




Blame is there to go to everyone.  



But there is just a lack of surprise that it happens.  

Re: Greedy Billionaires?
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2011, 10:32:03 AM »

Offline action781

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Both are greedy and it's a battle of egos now rather than for $.  Larry Coon's article laid it out really nicely.  If either side would just cave into the current proposal of the other side, they would end up losing less money than they are about to lose from missed games.

It's become a matter of principle and egos now.
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Re: Greedy Billionaires?
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2011, 10:35:40 AM »

Offline action781

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BTW, as a season ticket holder, we got an email a while back with this in it:

Quote
The NBA’s efforts remain focused on reaching a new collective bargaining agreement that is in the best interests of its teams, the players, our fans, and the game of basketball.

Was anybody else completely and utterly disgusted that they would try to sell this to us?  If they really cared about the best interests of the fans, they'd have made the season happen.  Bottom line.  The "best interests of the fans" can only be so incredibly marginally affected by whatever CBA details they hammer out.  The loss of games is the real effect.  I know it was just a statement for good PR, but that inclusion really annoyed me.
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Re: Greedy Billionaires?
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2011, 10:40:42 AM »

Offline greenpride32

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The bottom line is the league is not doing well financially and the players want to still get paid.  You tell me which side is being greedy.  When the league was booming with Jordan and the Olympic Dream Team the owners rewarded the players, not doubt about that.

Re: Greedy Billionaires?
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2011, 10:41:10 AM »

Offline bdm860

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I think we should start an Occupy Hardwood movement.

The top 1% (owners and players) need to work this out for the good of the other 99% (the fans).

Free admission to games.
Lower concession prices.
Completely redo the officiating.
New referees.
NBA League Pass is free online and also comes free with basic cable.
No regional blackouts.
If you buy a jersey and the player gets traded, you get to exchange the jersey for a new one.
GM's need to consult the fans before making trades.

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Re: Greedy Billionaires?
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2011, 10:43:30 AM »

Offline Cman

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I think we should start an Occupy Hardwood movement.

The top 1% (owners and players) need to work this out for the good of the other 99% (the fans).


TP for this anti-capitalist sentiment! I'm with you, though.
;)
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Re: Greedy Billionaires?
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2011, 10:44:29 AM »

Offline Chris

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BTW, as a season ticket holder, we got an email a while back with this in it:

Quote
The NBA’s efforts remain focused on reaching a new collective bargaining agreement that is in the best interests of its teams, the players, our fans, and the game of basketball.

Was anybody else completely and utterly disgusted that they would try to sell this to us?  If they really cared about the best interests of the fans, they'd have made the season happen.  Bottom line.  The "best interests of the fans" can only be so incredibly marginally affected by whatever CBA details they hammer out.  The loss of games is the real effect.  I know it was just a statement for good PR, but that inclusion really annoyed me.

No more disgusted than I have been with the players tweets "Apologizing", and acting like they have had nothing to do with this.  I especially liked Wade's tweets last night, saying it was Sterns "words" that have been hurting people.  

I would argue however, that the owners have had more of the fans interest than the players have.  While the owners have certainly been trying to maximize their own profits, which will do little for the fans (could give them slightly more money to put into the non-basketball game presentation, but minimal), the hard cap would absolutely benefit teams in smaller markets (which is well more than half the NBA).  

The owners are trying to create a league where every team can contend in just a couple of years, by allowing quick turnaround, and an even playing field financially.  That would benefit the fans I think.

But I do agree at this point, it is more than a little disingenuous to frame it like that in that email.