U. of Miami = Toast

[Donoghus]

100 dollar handshakes here and there occur everywhere, but I suspect there aren't 50k payments being tossed around like candy at most places.

  I remember reading somewhere that Isiah Thomas was allegedly offered a new house for his family if he attended a college (that he didn't end up going to).

Have you watched the Marcus Dupree "30 on 30"?  The stuff going on there was pretty crazy.

[Chris]

But the point is, if Miami was in the position Ohio State is, all this stuff being reported wouldn't have been found.  

Not likely since it all came from the same source and he is in jail and has an axe to grind.  That could happen to any program at any time.

I am not one for conspiracies, but in this case I make an exception.  I think the NCAA looks the other way whenever they can, particularly with a major program.  

I think the NCAA relies on self reporting as much as possible, but don't think they intentionally look the other way.  When they get wind of something, they investigate and punish.

If there is something brought to their attention, like the Ohio State thing, they will make a show of it, and slap them on the wrist, but not really dig anymore.  

I think the Ohio State thing really isn't that big a deal.  Some players sold some of their own merchandise for tatoos and discounts.  Not really a big deal in the scheme of things.  Granted the NCAA is still investigating so who knows what else will be found.

With Miami, who have basically been in shambles for years anyways, they really will have no problem making an example of them, so they can say "look at how deep we dug, you can't say we look the other way".

Miami has struggled of late sure, but they are still a major program.

This is just like the Mitchell Report in baseball.  They chose a handful of scapegoats who were already basically at the end of their careers or retired.  Big enough names, so that they wouldn't be accused of just going after the little fish, and then put on a dog and pony show.

they basically had two sources for that thing, so it pretty much just identified players that the sources could link.  It wasn't all encompassing and was never meant to be, but it had enough players identified from all positions and skill levels to show baseball had a problem, which is all it was supposed to do.  It wasn't about outing players or prosecuting, its whole purpose was to show baseball had a problem.

I am not saying that Mitchell saw and ignored say, Alex Rodriguez or Albert Pujols, I just think he chose not to investigate them, the same way he investigated lesser players, and guys who were no longer a big asset to the league.  

He investigated sources.  His sources gave him the names and when he achieved his goal (see my quote above) he stopped looking.  Since there was nothing baseball was going to do to anyone identified int he report there was absolutely no reason to investigate past what he did.

It's a great strategy, and it is very effective, because most people's first thought is "wow, they wouldn't throw a big star like Roger Clemens under the bus if they didn't have to"...but in reality, they had no problem with that, because it saved them from having to investigate the stars who were still selling tickets.

You have confused the purpose of the Mitchell Report.  It was just about showing there was a problem to get the players to agree to more stringent testing and to satisfy congress that baseball looked into it.  It wasn't about outing anyone.

Agree to disagree on all of this.  Obviously, I am spouting a conspiracy theory, so I don't expect everyone to buy into it. 

[Finkelskyhook]

He investigated sources.  His sources gave him the names and when he achieved his goal (see my quote above) he stopped looking.  Since there was nothing baseball was going to do to anyone identified int he report there was absolutely no reason to investigate past what he did.

Since there was nothing baseball was going to do to anyone identified there was absolutely no reason to have the "investigation" at all..Beyond the whole government grandstanding thing....And a photo op for a few star-crazed senators.

Not to mention, of course, that said "investigator" couldn't have had a bigger conflict of interest if he was Pujols or Rodriguez themselves conducting this sitcom instead of a hack like Mitchell.

Beyond the whole government grandstanding thing....

I think the Ohio State thing really isn't that big a deal.  Some players sold some of their own merchandise for tatoos and discounts.  Not really a big deal in the scheme of things. 

....And the free cars....money...etc etc etc. 

No big deal.

[Moranis]

He investigated sources.  His sources gave him the names and when he achieved his goal (see my quote above) he stopped looking.  Since there was nothing baseball was going to do to anyone identified int he report there was absolutely no reason to investigate past what he did.

Since there was nothing baseball was going to do to anyone identified there was absolutely no reason to have the "investigation" at all..Beyond the whole government grandstanding thing....And a photo op for a few star-crazed senators.

Not to mention, of course, that said "investigator" couldn't have had a bigger conflict of interest if he was Pujols or Rodriguez themselves conducting this sitcom instead of a hack like Mitchell.

Beyond the whole government grandstanding thing....

That was the whole point of the Mitchell Report.  See government we had a problem, we looked into it, and we are fixing it.  There was no point in digging deeper because baseball wasn't going to "prosecute" anyone and never intended to.  The vast majority of the names on the list came from McNamara and Radomski.  Pretty much the only two people that would actually talk to Mitchell.

I think the Ohio State thing really isn't that big a deal.  Some players sold some of their own merchandise for tatoos and discounts.  Not really a big deal in the scheme of things. 

....And the free cars....money...etc etc etc. 

No big deal.

There weren't any free cars.  And the "money" was peanuts exchanged for merchandise.  There really wasn't much there, it has been investigated to do death by the press and they really didn't find anything.  Even the initial yahoo story doesn't have much in it.

[Jon]

I'd really love to see the NFL and NBA develop a minor league system on par with the NHL and MLB. 

Currently, the NCAA runs college football and basketball under three big myths:

1) The colleges are doing the players a big favor by giving them an education and exposure.

2) College is for everyone. 

3) The players are actually getting some sort of legitimate education at most of these schools. 

What the NFL and NBA needs to do is develop a legit minor league system.  Then, players who want money or have no interest in education can bypass college altogether, eliminating problems 2 and 3. 

Then, the NCAA will be left with players who actually want to be there, who will be much more likely to follow the rules. 

It'll also benefit the NBA and NFL because instead of learning college systems that often are quite different than the pros, teams can begin to teach their systems and techniques to players right away. 

I mean imagine how much further Tim Tebow might be right now if he played in a pro minor league system and was taught how to actually play the NFL game instead of being told for his whole career that he was amazing.

[Chris]

I'd really love to see the NFL and NBA develop a minor league system on par with the NHL and MLB. 

Currently, the NCAA runs college football and basketball under three big myths:

1) The colleges are doing the players a big favor by giving them an education and exposure.

2) College is for everyone. 

3) The players are actually getting some sort of legitimate education at most of these schools. 

What the NFL and NBA needs to do is develop a legit minor league system.  Then, players who want money or have no interest in education can bypass college altogether, eliminating problems 2 and 3. 

Then, the NCAA will be left with players who actually want to be there, who will be much more likely to follow the rules. 

It'll also benefit the NBA and NFL because instead of learning college systems that often are quite different than the pros, teams can begin to teach their systems and techniques to players right away. 

I mean imagine how much further Tim Tebow might be right now if he played in a pro minor league system and was taught how to actually play the NFL game instead of being told for his whole career that he was amazing.

I agree with this, but it all comes down to money.  If players are going to expect to be paid like NBA players to play in a minor league, then I don't think its going to be feasible, unless the owners also get something else back...like the 6 years of team control at the major league level that baseball players have to wait through before free agency.

I think there is a way to make this work, but it is certainly not going to be easy to negotiate something that is both financially feasible for the owners, and attractive for the players.

[Finkelskyhook]

I'd really love to see the NFL and NBA develop a minor league system on par with the NHL and MLB. 

Currently, the NCAA runs college football and basketball under three big myths:

1) The colleges are doing the players a big favor by giving them an education and exposure.

2) College is for everyone. 

3) The players are actually getting some sort of legitimate education at most of these schools. 

What the NFL and NBA needs to do is develop a legit minor league system.  Then, players who want money or have no interest in education can bypass college altogether, eliminating problems 2 and 3. 

Then, the NCAA will be left with players who actually want to be there, who will be much more likely to follow the rules. 

It'll also benefit the NBA and NFL because instead of learning college systems that often are quite different than the pros, teams can begin to teach their systems and techniques to players right away. 

I mean imagine how much further Tim Tebow might be right now if he played in a pro minor league system and was taught how to actually play the NFL game instead of being told for his whole career that he was amazing.

If the UFL is folding quickly...Like every league of it's type before it, I think the proof is kind of in the pudding as to how minor league football would work.  There's also the injury risks that are not nearly as prevelent in MLB, the NHL, or the NBA.  With MLB, it's a relatively safe bet the player is going to survive the minor leagues relatively physically unscathed.  It's anything but in football.

[CeltsAcumen]

Lets not get crazy here...Miami brings in bucket loads of cash to the NCAA from its football program.  They will get a slap on the wrist like most big money schools and be in the BCS in less than 5 years.  

Reggie Bush got a house for his parents, got caught red handed + OJ Mayo was caught taking money from the USC BB program - Both programs are alive and well.  Ohio St. and Tressel LIED to the NCAA and they are just gonna miss a few scholarships and Tressel wasnt even fired.

NCAA does not care about these type of things, college football writes its own rules.  They only care if the media makes a big thing about it and their interest leaves when ESPN finally moves on to the next story.

Lets not be foolish or a little naive, the NCAA is not run to a high standards of morals and ethics, in truth the NFL and NBA run their businesses with far more class.

[action781]

Can we talk about what a loser this booster is?  Thinking he's friends with the players because he pays them tons of money and gets them prostitutes...  Then feels like his "family" betrayed him once he got into jail.  You can't buy family.  Dude is the definition of loser in my book.  And it's funny because he thought he was so cool hanging with college players and taking pictures with them and stuff.

[wdleehi]

I'd really love to see the NFL and NBA develop a minor league system on par with the NHL and MLB. 

Currently, the NCAA runs college football and basketball under three big myths:

1) The colleges are doing the players a big favor by giving them an education and exposure.

2) College is for everyone. 

3) The players are actually getting some sort of legitimate education at most of these schools. 

What the NFL and NBA needs to do is develop a legit minor league system.  Then, players who want money or have no interest in education can bypass college altogether, eliminating problems 2 and 3. 

Then, the NCAA will be left with players who actually want to be there, who will be much more likely to follow the rules. 

It'll also benefit the NBA and NFL because instead of learning college systems that often are quite different than the pros, teams can begin to teach their systems and techniques to players right away. 

I mean imagine how much further Tim Tebow might be right now if he played in a pro minor league system and was taught how to actually play the NFL game instead of being told for his whole career that he was amazing.

NBA, yes.



NFL, no.  The system works really well.  Players are coming out of college with game skills needed for the next level. 

[hwangjini_1]

just to add some perspective on what the worst NCAA football penalty has been to date:

"...Southern Mehodist University  receiving the “death penalty.” SMU’s 1987 season was cancelled and it was allowed no home games in 1988 (the season was subsequently also cancelled). The NCAA committee declared that the penalty was given in order to “eliminate a program that was built on a legacy of wrongdoing, deceit and rule violations."

The punishment effectively destroyed SMU’s football program, which has gone 66-169-3 after thel team was brought back in 1989. The death penalty didn’t just severely damage football at SMU, it was also one of the major factors that led to the dissolution of the Southwest Conference in 1996."

http://www.realclearsports.com/lists/infamous_ncaa_sanctions/smu_football.html

it took around a decade of misbehavior to the NCAA to do this to SMU. but since then, the NCAA has tightened up its rules and doled out more penalties than in the past.

[Donoghus]

just to add some perspective on what the worst NCAA football penalty has been to date:

"...Southern Mehodist University  receiving the “death penalty.” SMU’s 1987 season was cancelled and it was allowed no home games in 1988 (the season was subsequently also cancelled). The NCAA committee declared that the penalty was given in order to “eliminate a program that was built on a legacy of wrongdoing, deceit and rule violations."

The punishment effectively destroyed SMU’s football program, which has gone 66-169-3 after thel team was brought back in 1989. The death penalty didn’t just severely damage football at SMU, it was also one of the major factors that led to the dissolution of the Southwest Conference in 1996."
http://www.realclearsports.com/lists/infamous_ncaa_sanctions/smu_football.html

it took around a decade of misbehavior to the NCAA to do this to SMU. but since then, the NCAA has tightened up its rules and doled out more penalties than in the past.

Which is why I don't think the NCAA will dish out the "death peanlty" again. It obliterated SMU football and the ramifications were felt throughout the old Southwest Conference.

[Tai]

The guy who officially announced the death penalty on SMU promptly fainted on TV, as shown on 30 for 30.

We can agree to disagree whether Miami truly deserves it, but I don't think the NCAA wants to touch that with a million-foot long stick.

[Moranis]

just to add some perspective on what the worst NCAA football penalty has been to date:

"...Southern Mehodist University  receiving the “death penalty.” SMU’s 1987 season was cancelled and it was allowed no home games in 1988 (the season was subsequently also cancelled). The NCAA committee declared that the penalty was given in order to “eliminate a program that was built on a legacy of wrongdoing, deceit and rule violations."

The punishment effectively destroyed SMU’s football program, which has gone 66-169-3 after thel team was brought back in 1989. The death penalty didn’t just severely damage football at SMU, it was also one of the major factors that led to the dissolution of the Southwest Conference in 1996."
http://www.realclearsports.com/lists/infamous_ncaa_sanctions/smu_football.html

it took around a decade of misbehavior to the NCAA to do this to SMU. but since then, the NCAA has tightened up its rules and doled out more penalties than in the past.

Which is why I don't think the NCAA will dish out the "death peanlty" again. It obliterated SMU football and the ramifications were felt throughout the old Southwest Conference.

SMU was a crap program, cheated and became good, and was a crap program after it was forced to stop cheating.  The reality is, SMU was only ever good because of the booster gifts.  One could argue that Miami is exactly the same as SMU in that regard.

[Donoghus]

just to add some perspective on what the worst NCAA football penalty has been to date:

"...Southern Mehodist University  receiving the “death penalty.” SMU’s 1987 season was cancelled and it was allowed no home games in 1988 (the season was subsequently also cancelled). The NCAA committee declared that the penalty was given in order to “eliminate a program that was built on a legacy of wrongdoing, deceit and rule violations."

The punishment effectively destroyed SMU’s football program, which has gone 66-169-3 after thel team was brought back in 1989. The death penalty didn’t just severely damage football at SMU, it was also one of the major factors that led to the dissolution of the Southwest Conference in 1996."
http://www.realclearsports.com/lists/infamous_ncaa_sanctions/smu_football.html

it took around a decade of misbehavior to the NCAA to do this to SMU. but since then, the NCAA has tightened up its rules and doled out more penalties than in the past.

Which is why I don't think the NCAA will dish out the "death peanlty" again. It obliterated SMU football and the ramifications were felt throughout the old Southwest Conference.

SMU was a crap program, cheated and became good, and was a crap program after it was forced to stop cheating.  The reality is, SMU was only ever good because of the booster gifts.  One could argue that Miami is exactly the same as SMU in that regard.

I think you missed the point, here.  I wasn't judging the success or lack of success for the SMU program throughout the years (although I think Doak Walker might disagree if he was here).

The point was that the punishment rendered led to some devastating consequences and more than SMU football was affected by it.  This is why I think the NCAA has been reluctant to issue the death penalty since then (it hasn't) and why I think the death penalty won't be used here.

Far from it from being considered a rich, rich football history but SMU produced some solid players over the years well before the controversies surrounding the teams of the late 70s and early 80s with Dickerson & James;  Walker, Don Meredith, Forrest Gregg, and Raymond Berry all come to mind.  So calling it a "crap program" is a little disingenous in my mind.