I hate to admit it but getting Howard means trading Rondo for Chris Paul

[BballTim]

But I'll tell you this:  when I see people use the word "upgrade", I wonder if they are talking about machine parts, or animals, because I just don't evaluate human beings that way. 

This made me laugh.  Not in a good way.

We are talking about parts, parts of a basketball team.  An upgrade is when you trade a player for a better player.  That is an "upgrade" for the team, which will make a team better, and win more games.

This is pretty basic stuff in the NBA.  Teams try to upgrade, through trades all the time.

  An "upgrade" for a team occurs when  you trade for a player that has more of a positive impact when put on the court with the other players on your team. Complementary skillsets can be more important than overall talent. That's why KG and Ray were so much more of an upgrade than LeBron and Bosh.

[Boris Badenov]

This guy single handedly took us to the finals a year ago.

Single handily?

I think we saw how far he could take us single-handedly THIS year.

[BballTim]

This guy single handedly took us to the finals a year ago.

Single handily?

I think we saw how far he could take us single-handedly THIS year.

  Haha.

[karimb]

As much as I like Rondo, this starting line up would be amazing:
Chris Paul
Ray Allen
Paul Pierce
KG
Howard

[Jon]

As much as I like Rondo, this starting line up would be amazing:
Chris Paul
Ray Allen
Paul Pierce
KG
Howard

While I'd love to see Ray and KG take a discount to come back, I'm not sure it's as likely as some people would like to imagine. 

Could I see them taking a "hometown discount"?  Sure.  But between 15 million for Pierce, 17 million for Paul, and another max contract for Howard, and the fact that the league salary cap may go down, they might only be left with minimum deals. 

Could I see them both agreeing to take half of what they made in 2011-2012 (or would've) in 2012-2013, but for guys still considered to be top 50 players (and in KG's case, top 20), I'm not sure their pride is ready to let them be minimum players (or even split MLE players, if the MLE exists). 

But I'd love to be wrong. 

[indeedproceed]

As much as I like Rondo, this starting line up would be amazing:
Chris Paul
Ray Allen
Paul Pierce
KG
Howard

While I'd love to see Ray and KG take a discount to come back, I'm not sure it's as likely as some people would like to imagine. 

Could I see them taking a "hometown discount"?  Sure.  But between 15 million for Pierce, 17 million for Paul, and another max contract for Howard, and the fact that the league salary cap may go down, they might only be left with minimum deals. 

Could I see them both agreeing to take half of what they made in 2011-2012 (or would've) in 2012-2013, but for guys still considered to be top 50 players (and in KG's case, top 20), I'm not sure their pride is ready to let them be minimum players (or even split MLE players, if the MLE exists). 

But I'd love to be wrong. 

I'd also love for you to be wrong, but i imagine you're right.

[indeedproceed]

As much as I like Rondo, this starting line up would be amazing:
Chris Paul
Ray Allen
Paul Pierce
KG
Howard

While I'd love to see Ray and KG take a discount to come back, I'm not sure it's as likely as some people would like to imagine. 

Could I see them taking a "hometown discount"?  Sure.  But between 15 million for Pierce, 17 million for Paul, and another max contract for Howard, and the fact that the league salary cap may go down, they might only be left with minimum deals. 

Could I see them both agreeing to take half of what they made in 2011-2012 (or would've) in 2012-2013, but for guys still considered to be top 50 players (and in KG's case, top 20), I'm not sure their pride is ready to let them be minimum players (or even split MLE players, if the MLE exists). 

But I'd love to be wrong. 

I'd also love for you to be wrong, but i imagine you're right.

But, how would Bird-Rights factor into this?

[BballTim]

As much as I like Rondo, this starting line up would be amazing:
Chris Paul
Ray Allen
Paul Pierce
KG
Howard

While I'd love to see Ray and KG take a discount to come back, I'm not sure it's as likely as some people would like to imagine. 

Could I see them taking a "hometown discount"?  Sure.  But between 15 million for Pierce, 17 million for Paul, and another max contract for Howard, and the fact that the league salary cap may go down, they might only be left with minimum deals. 

Could I see them both agreeing to take half of what they made in 2011-2012 (or would've) in 2012-2013, but for guys still considered to be top 50 players (and in KG's case, top 20), I'm not sure their pride is ready to let them be minimum players (or even split MLE players, if the MLE exists). 

But I'd love to be wrong. 

I'd also love for you to be wrong, but i imagine you're right.

But, how would Bird-Rights factor into this?

  You'd have to renounce anyone you could to sign Howard, right?

[Kane3387]

Yes you would have to renounce everyone... But why can't we imagine that Howard and Paul take a little less money like Wade, Bosh, and James did to free up a little more money for Ray and KG?

Of course who knows what a max contract will look like in the new CBA?

[nickagneta]

2012 salary situation

Pierce $16.79 million
Rondo $11 million
Bradley $1.69 million
Johnson $1.1 million
Top 17 First round pick(Clippers) - $1.3 million
Top 26 First round pick(Celtics) - $1.1 million

Total assuming we do not resign green and Baby to more than one year contracts: $32.88 million

Now if we trade at the deadline next year Rondo, the Clippers pick and the Celtics 2013 1st round pick to New Orleans for Paul and resign him to an extension that starts at $12 million a year for 3 years because under the new CBA that is where max salaries start we have:

Pierce $16.79 million
Paul $12 million
Bradley $1.69 million
Johnson $1.1 million
Top 26 First round pick(Celtics) - $1.1 million

Total assuming we do not resign green and Baby to more than one year contracts: $32.58 million.

Let's now assume the cap under the new CBA is a soft hard cap with $50 million being the soft number and $60 million being the hard number. I don't think that's entirely out of the question.

Renounce all of our free agents and sign Dwight Howard for a max contract with the first year starting at $12 million per. Under those conditions the Celtics have:


Pierce $16.79 million
Paul $12 million
Bradley $1.69 million
Johnson $1.1 million
Top 26 First round pick(Celtics) - $1.1 million
Howard: $12 million

Total: $44.58 million

That would leave $5.44 million under the soft cap to split between Ray and KG who we could now sign with any money still available under the soft cap. If they are willing to play another year at $2.72 million each(something I am not sure is likely) then the roster is:


Pierce $16.79 million
Paul $12 million
Bradley $1.69 million
Johnson $1.1 million
Top 26 First round pick(Celtics) - $1.1 million
Howard: $12 million
Allen $2.72 million
Garnett $2.72 million

Total: $50 million

We then can fill out the rest of the roster with veteran minimum players until we reach the $60 million hard cap. So the final roster would look like:

Pierce $16.79 million
Paul $12 million
Bradley $1.69 million
Johnson $1.1 million
Top 26 First round pick(Celtics) - $1.1 million
Howard: $12 million
Allen $2.72 million
Garnett $2.72 million
6 vet minimum guys or 5 vet min guys and Moore and another 2nd round pick $10 million

Total: $60 million

Paul/Bradley/vet min
Allen/Moore/vet min
Pierce/vet min
Garnett/Johnson/vet min
Howard/vet min/1st round pick

[Yogi]

What happened to the days when chemistry, heart and loyalty were the cornerstone of the Celtics franchise?  What happened to the days when a team built with the right pieces was more important than a bunch of superstars?  Do you remember when we made fun of the Heat and the Knicks for collecting stars with no thought to the team as a whole?  Having 4 all-star reserves is not enough?  We need 2 all-star starters in addition to the Big 3?  What would that be called, the Big 3 and the Bigger 2?  What about being 12 deep and having a balanced bench?  now just a bunch of rookies and vet mins with 5 stars are what the Celtics are all about?  The moment we become one of "those teams" is the moment I stop being a Celtic fan.  I'd rather watch Rondo and the right pieces play Celtics basketball than watch Chris Paul, Dwight Howard and Josh Smith play an all-star game. 

[nickagneta]

What happened to the days when chemistry, heart and loyalty were the cornerstone of the Celtics franchise?  What happened to the days when a team built with the right pieces was more important than a bunch of superstars?  Do you remember when we made fun of the Heat and the Knicks for collecting stars with no thought to the team as a whole?  Having 4 all-star reserves is not enough?  We need 2 all-star starters in addition to the Big 3?  What would that be called, the Big 3 and the Bigger 2?  What about being 12 deep and having a balanced bench?  now just a bunch of rookies and vet mins with 5 stars are what the Celtics are all about?  The moment we become one of "those teams" is the moment I stop being a Celtic fan.  I'd rather watch Rondo and the right pieces play Celtics basketball than watch Chris Paul, Dwight Howard and Josh Smith play an all-star game. 

We became one of those teams in the summer of 2007. Perhaps you missed the ESPN commercials of The Big Three, all those wins and the parade in Boston during June of 2008?

[BballTim]

What happened to the days when chemistry, heart and loyalty were the cornerstone of the Celtics franchise?  What happened to the days when a team built with the right pieces was more important than a bunch of superstars?  Do you remember when we made fun of the Heat and the Knicks for collecting stars with no thought to the team as a whole?  Having 4 all-star reserves is not enough?  We need 2 all-star starters in addition to the Big 3?  What would that be called, the Big 3 and the Bigger 2?  What about being 12 deep and having a balanced bench?  now just a bunch of rookies and vet mins with 5 stars are what the Celtics are all about?  The moment we become one of "those teams" is the moment I stop being a Celtic fan.  I'd rather watch Rondo and the right pieces play Celtics basketball than watch Chris Paul, Dwight Howard and Josh Smith play an all-star game. 

We became one of those teams in the summer of 2007. Perhaps you missed the ESPN commercials of The Big Three, all those wins and the parade in Boston during June of 2008?

  So you're saying that the team in 2007 was built without the right pieces and Danny was just collecting stars with no thought to the team as a whole?

[nickagneta]

What happened to the days when chemistry, heart and loyalty were the cornerstone of the Celtics franchise?  What happened to the days when a team built with the right pieces was more important than a bunch of superstars?  Do you remember when we made fun of the Heat and the Knicks for collecting stars with no thought to the team as a whole?  Having 4 all-star reserves is not enough?  We need 2 all-star starters in addition to the Big 3?  What would that be called, the Big 3 and the Bigger 2?  What about being 12 deep and having a balanced bench?  now just a bunch of rookies and vet mins with 5 stars are what the Celtics are all about?  The moment we become one of "those teams" is the moment I stop being a Celtic fan.  I'd rather watch Rondo and the right pieces play Celtics basketball than watch Chris Paul, Dwight Howard and Josh Smith play an all-star game. 

We became one of those teams in the summer of 2007. Perhaps you missed the ESPN commercials of The Big Three, all those wins and the parade in Boston during June of 2008?

  So you're saying that the team in 2007 was built without the right pieces and Danny was just collecting stars with no thought to the team as a whole?

Did I say that? Let me reread? Nope never said that.

[BballTim]

What happened to the days when chemistry, heart and loyalty were the cornerstone of the Celtics franchise?  What happened to the days when a team built with the right pieces was more important than a bunch of superstars?  Do you remember when we made fun of the Heat and the Knicks for collecting stars with no thought to the team as a whole?  Having 4 all-star reserves is not enough?  We need 2 all-star starters in addition to the Big 3?  What would that be called, the Big 3 and the Bigger 2?  What about being 12 deep and having a balanced bench?  now just a bunch of rookies and vet mins with 5 stars are what the Celtics are all about?  The moment we become one of "those teams" is the moment I stop being a Celtic fan.  I'd rather watch Rondo and the right pieces play Celtics basketball than watch Chris Paul, Dwight Howard and Josh Smith play an all-star game. 

We became one of those teams in the summer of 2007. Perhaps you missed the ESPN commercials of The Big Three, all those wins and the parade in Boston during June of 2008?

  So you're saying that the team in 2007 was built without the right pieces and Danny was just collecting stars with no thought to the team as a whole?

Did I say that? Let me reread? Nope never said that.

  Ok, so when you said we became one of those teams, you meant we fit about half of his description. Got it.