I hate to admit it but getting Howard means trading Rondo for Chris Paul

[BballTim]

In terms of jersey sales, rondo is far more popular than CP3. Anyone who says rondo isn't marketable compared to CP3 is kidding themselves. The kid is endorsed by red bull for gods sake.

You do know that has a little something to do with who he plays for right?

I'm pretty sure if they got swapped for one another Rondo wouldn't still be at the top of jersey sales

  I doubt it, unless Rondo played a much less flashy game in NO.

[paulcowens]

What the hell can I say that will make any difference to any of you?  Most of you seem hellbent and determined to talk about players as if they were interchangeable units, like parts in an autopart store.  The very fact that so many of you use the word "upgrade" over and over and over again is in itself so telling.  I assume it comes from the influence of fantasy sports on sports fandom.  Sure, ok, if trading the key guy on our team for another guy is a simple matter of unplugging Rondo's stats and plugging in Paul's stats then yes, I guess you are all right:  we should move hell and high water to trade Rondo for Chris Paul, and probably for ten other point guards as well, if the CP trade doesn't work out.  Chris Paul has better stats.  So do many other guards, I suspect.

And hell, for all I know, Rondo is just a scrub with a bit of flash and sizzle who fell into the right place at the right time.  Maybe with the Big Three gone and with Rondo as the team leader, we'd lose 50 games a season for five years.

But I'll tell you this:  when I see people use the word "upgrade", I wonder if they are talking about machine parts, or animals, because I just don't evaluate human beings that way.  And when I see Rondo play, what I see is an admittedly flawed player who seems to have a unique vision and passion for the game of basketball.  I see someone who can affect games in ways that other players wouldn't even think of.  I see someone who can be the heart of this team for a decade.  I don't see that in Chris Paul, or Dwight Howard, even though they are great talents. 
I see in Rondo  a guy you build around.  I see a guy with a different fire in his eyes, a guy with a Russell, a Cowens, a Bird, a KG quality in his eyes.  I think it would be basketball madness to trade this kid.  I think Ainge ought to commit to Rondo, make him untouchable, and start to build around him, consulting with him about what direction he'd like to see the team go in.

When I see all this out of control Rondo trade talk, I see a whole lot of  Birds in the Bush thinking.  I also see a lot of scapegoating, a lot of fans who are angry about last season's disappointment - let's be honest; we all thought we were on our way to a championship - and who are looking to take it out on our younger players (except for Jeff Green, who mysteriously gets a pass).   I see a lot of people who are overly impressed by Paul's performance in the first round of the playoffs this last season, and who seem surprisingly eager to forget how brilliantly our own pg played, and who also seem eager to forget that PAUL LOST THAT SERIES.

But, see, that's how Bird in the Bush thinking goes.  You see all the shortcomings of the bird in your hand.  You only see the SportsCenter highlights version of the Bird in the Bush.  That Bird never does anything wrong (because you never see what he does wrong).

It comes down to this:  many of you, if not most of you,  want to trade our best player, for a guy who MIGHT play as well for us in the future as Rondo might play (but who also might very well not), all so that we can land Dwight Howard, who might not come to us in any case.  And what makes folks so sure that Howard doesn't want to play with Rondo?  Wouldn't it be some kind of poetic justice if we traded Rondo to NO in order to land Howard, and Howard ended up in New Orleans?!

We need to appreciate the players we have just a scootch more, and to fantasize about other team's players a scootch less.  Let's add and subtract very carefully and with a clear and realistic idea about what we are trying to achieve.  Farflung dreams of assembling Chris Paul and Dwight Howard (and hell, Blake Griffin and Superman and Batman and Wolverine) belong in XMen movies, in my view.  We've got a lot to work with.  A few smart moves may take us a long way.

[wdleehi]

What the hell can I say that will make any difference to any of you?  Most of you seem hellbent and determined to talk about players as if they were interchangeable units, like parts in an autopart store.  The very fact that so many of you use the word "upgrade" over and over and over again is in itself so telling.  I assume it comes from the influence of fantasy sports on sports fandom.  Sure, ok, if trading the key guy on our team for another guy is a simple matter of unplugging Rondo's stats and plugging in Paul's stats then yes, I guess you are all right:  we should move hell and high water to trade Rondo for Chris Paul, and probably for ten other point guards as well, if the CP trade doesn't work out.  Chris Paul has better stats.  So do many other guards, I suspect.

And hell, for all I know, Rondo is just a scrub with a bit of flash and sizzle who fell into the right place at the right time.  Maybe with the Big Three gone and with Rondo as the team leader, we'd lose 50 games a season for five years.

But I'll tell you this:  when I see people use the word "upgrade", I wonder if they are talking about machine parts, or animals, because I just don't evaluate human beings that way.  And when I see Rondo play, what I see is an admittedly flawed player who seems to have a unique vision and passion for the game of basketball.  I see someone who can affect games in ways that other players wouldn't even think of.  I see someone who can be the heart of this team for a decade.  I don't see that in Chris Paul, or Dwight Howard, even though they are great talents. 
I see in Rondo  a guy you build around.  I see a guy with a different fire in his eyes, a guy with a Russell, a Cowens, a Bird, a KG quality in his eyes.  I think it would be basketball madness to trade this kid.  I think Ainge ought to commit to Rondo, make him untouchable, and start to build around him, consulting with him about what direction he'd like to see the team go in.

When I see all this out of control Rondo trade talk, I see a whole lot of  Birds in the Bush thinking.  I also see a lot of scapegoating, a lot of fans who are angry about last season's disappointment - let's be honest; we all thought we were on our way to a championship - and who are looking to take it out on our younger players (except for Jeff Green, who mysteriously gets a pass).   I see a lot of people who are overly impressed by Paul's performance in the first round of the playoffs this last season, and who seem surprisingly eager to forget how brilliantly our own pg played, and who also seem eager to forget that PAUL LOST THAT SERIES.

But, see, that's how Bird in the Bush thinking goes.  You see all the shortcomings of the bird in your hand.  You only see the SportsCenter highlights version of the Bird in the Bush.  That Bird never does anything wrong (because you never see what he does wrong).

It comes down to this:  many of you, if not most of you,  want to trade our best player, for a guy who MIGHT play as well for us in the future as Rondo might play (but who also might very well not), all so that we can land Dwight Howard, who might not come to us in any case.  And what makes folks so sure that Howard doesn't want to play with Rondo?  Wouldn't it be some kind of poetic justice if we traded Rondo to NO in order to land Howard, and Howard ended up in New Orleans?!

We need to appreciate the players we have just a scootch more, and to fantasize about other team's players a scootch less.  Let's add and subtract very carefully and with a clear and realistic idea about what we are trying to achieve.  Farflung dreams of assembling Chris Paul and Dwight Howard (and hell, Blake Griffin and Superman and Batman and Wolverine) belong in XMen movies, in my view.  We've got a lot to work with.  A few smart moves may take us a long way.

Paul is the better player. 


There are three PGs in the league I would trade Rondo for:  Paul, Williams and Rose.


All three will make the Celtics better. 


The Heat are likely going to improve.  Same with Chicago. 


The Celtics, as much as it hurts us, are slowing down. 

Do they still have a window with the 4 stars?  Of course.

But if you can upgrade one of them with a better star, you increase the chances of winning another title.


Out of all those players, Rondo has one of the best trade value.  Throw on top of that the issues NO will have keeping Paul, Rondo's trade value in this case is even more. 




Good players get traded. 

[BballTim]

There are three PGs in the league I would trade Rondo for:  Paul, Williams and Rose.


All three will make the Celtics better. 

  I don't think it's as clear that Williams or Rose make us better as people think. You'll get more production from the pg spot, you'll likely get less production from everywhere else.

[mc34]

There are three PGs in the league I would trade Rondo for:  Paul, Williams and Rose.


All three will make the Celtics better.  

  I don't think it's as clear that Williams or Rose make us better as people think. You'll get more production from the pg spot, you'll likely get less production from everywhere else.

I'm not sure where the perception of Williams as a score-first PG came from. I agree with you on Rose, but Williams is a brilliant passer as well.

Personally, I'm not sure if I trust CP3's knee. He labored (seeemed to coast at times) through the regular season, although its not even debatable that Paul is the better player.

Edit: Btw... there's no way KG or Ray take vet-minimum contracts.

[cman88]

The same deron williams who pushed jerry sloan out of utah and was such a cancer in the lockerroom that they traded him for pretty much peanuts to Nj? Ill pass...

Derrick rose may be a better scorer but rondo is better in most other aspects pf the game

This site has a major case of "grass is greener on the other side" syndrome. The momeent we replace roo people will begin to see these other pointguards flaws and start to complain. Same thing happened with tony allen who was chided by fans while here. Now we create threads blaming danny for lettinghim go. and with people wanting landry over bbd

[wdleehi]

The same deron williams who pushed jerry sloan out of utah and was such a cancer in the lockerroom that they traded him for pretty much peanuts to Nj? Ill pass...

Derrick rose may be a better scorer but rondo is better in most other aspects pf the game

This site has a major case of "grass is greener on the other side" syndrome. The momeent we replace roo people will begin to see these other pointguards flaws and start to complain. Same thing happened with tony allen who was chided by fans while here. Now we create threads blaming danny for lettinghim go. and with people wanting landry over bbd

People wish TA was still here because he left a hole in the roster that forced a trade many still do not like.


If they had done a better job replacing him, the Daniels injury wouldn't had created such a hole.


I don't miss TA the bench player.

[Kane3387]

.     Edit: Btw... there's no way KG or Ray take vet-minimum contracts.   

I disagree. I saw Karl Malone do it the same way. I think it's realistic those guys would stay if they could play with cp3 D12 and pierce. That be a title team and it's not like they would command that much more with so few contenders having cap space and no more then an mle.

[BballTim]

.     Edit: Btw... there's no way KG or Ray take vet-minimum contracts.   

I disagree. I saw Karl Malone do it the same way. I think it's realistic those guys would stay if they could play with cp3 D12 and pierce. That be a title team and it's not like they would command that much more with so few contenders having cap space and no more then an mle.

  Take away KG's title, add about 3 years to him and you have Karl Malone.

[bfrombleacher]

There are three PGs in the league I would trade Rondo for:  Paul, Williams and Rose.


All three will make the Celtics better.  

  I don't think it's as clear that Williams or Rose make us better as people think. You'll get more production from the pg spot, you'll likely get less production from everywhere else.

Or even Paul. Rondo is tough as nails. Chris Paul sits out a sprained ankle for 1-2 weeks. Rondo plays a season with a broken foot. Rondo brings intangibles.

Rondo has 3 Hall of Famers....who are largely reduced to great jump shooters. His supporting cast is probably one of the weaker ones in the top teams (Rose has a serviceable center and younger guys to work with. Our bench was amazing until injury forced us to trade it all away.) A decent inside scorer (whether it be a slasher or a low post banger) would make Rondo amazing. Just look at what Rondo did with Shaq (or the half Shaq really). Shaq was having trouble scoring in Cleveland just a season ago and Rondo resurrected the man.

[wdleehi]

There are three PGs in the league I would trade Rondo for:  Paul, Williams and Rose.


All three will make the Celtics better.  

  I don't think it's as clear that Williams or Rose make us better as people think. You'll get more production from the pg spot, you'll likely get less production from everywhere else.

Or even Paul. Rondo is tough as nails. Chris Paul sits out a sprained ankle for 1-2 weeks. Rondo plays a season with a broken foot. Rondo brings intangibles.

Rondo has 3 Hall of Famers....who are largely reduced to great jump shooters. His supporting cast is probably one of the weaker ones in the top teams (Rose has a serviceable center and younger guys to work with. Our bench was amazing until injury forced us to trade it all away.) A decent inside scorer (whether it be a slasher or a low post banger) would make Rondo amazing. Just look at what Rondo did with Shaq (or the half Shaq really). Shaq was having trouble scoring in Cleveland just a season ago and Rondo resurrected the man.

Did you just call Pierce, Ray and KG as the weakest teammates of all of these PGs?

[chambers]

What the hell can I say that will make any difference to any of you?  Most of you seem hellbent and determined to talk about players as if they were interchangeable units, like parts in an autopart store.  The very fact that so many of you use the word "upgrade" over and over and over again is in itself so telling.  I assume it comes from the influence of fantasy sports on sports fandom.  Sure, ok, if trading the key guy on our team for another guy is a simple matter of unplugging Rondo's stats and plugging in Paul's stats then yes, I guess you are all right:  we should move hell and high water to trade Rondo for Chris Paul, and probably for ten other point guards as well, if the CP trade doesn't work out.  Chris Paul has better stats.  So do many other guards, I suspect.

And hell, for all I know, Rondo is just a scrub with a bit of flash and sizzle who fell into the right place at the right time.  Maybe with the Big Three gone and with Rondo as the team leader, we'd lose 50 games a season for five years.

But I'll tell you this:  when I see people use the word "upgrade", I wonder if they are talking about machine parts, or animals, because I just don't evaluate human beings that way.  And when I see Rondo play, what I see is an admittedly flawed player who seems to have a unique vision and passion for the game of basketball.  I see someone who can affect games in ways that other players wouldn't even think of.  I see someone who can be the heart of this team for a decade.  I don't see that in Chris Paul, or Dwight Howard, even though they are great talents. 
I see in Rondo  a guy you build around.  I see a guy with a different fire in his eyes, a guy with a Russell, a Cowens, a Bird, a KG quality in his eyes.  I think it would be basketball madness to trade this kid.  I think Ainge ought to commit to Rondo, make him untouchable, and start to build around him, consulting with him about what direction he'd like to see the team go in.

When I see all this out of control Rondo trade talk, I see a whole lot of  Birds in the Bush thinking.  I also see a lot of scapegoating, a lot of fans who are angry about last season's disappointment - let's be honest; we all thought we were on our way to a championship - and who are looking to take it out on our younger players (except for Jeff Green, who mysteriously gets a pass).   I see a lot of people who are overly impressed by Paul's performance in the first round of the playoffs this last season, and who seem surprisingly eager to forget how brilliantly our own pg played, and who also seem eager to forget that PAUL LOST THAT SERIES.

But, see, that's how Bird in the Bush thinking goes.  You see all the shortcomings of the bird in your hand.  You only see the SportsCenter highlights version of the Bird in the Bush.  That Bird never does anything wrong (because you never see what he does wrong).

It comes down to this:  many of you, if not most of you,  want to trade our best player, for a guy who MIGHT play as well for us in the future as Rondo might play (but who also might very well not), all so that we can land Dwight Howard, who might not come to us in any case.  And what makes folks so sure that Howard doesn't want to play with Rondo?  Wouldn't it be some kind of poetic justice if we traded Rondo to NO in order to land Howard, and Howard ended up in New Orleans?!

We need to appreciate the players we have just a scootch more, and to fantasize about other team's players a scootch less.  Let's add and subtract very carefully and with a clear and realistic idea about what we are trying to achieve.  Farflung dreams of assembling Chris Paul and Dwight Howard (and hell, Blake Griffin and Superman and Batman and Wolverine) belong in XMen movies, in my view.  We've got a lot to work with.  A few smart moves may take us a long way.

after the rambling all you've said is that people are blaming Rondo for last seasons short comings.
No one is blaming Rondo, without him the team doesn't beat NYC in the first round.

Yes Chris Paul has better stats and yes Chris Paul is an upgrade over Rajon Rondo. Why? because he can shoot. He is an overall better player than Rondo. It sucks to admit it but it's true. There are 2-3 PG's in the league that can run a pick and roll and dominate with it more than anyone else and they are:
Deron Williams
Steve Nash
Chris Paul.

Now Steve Nash isn't an upgrade over Rondo because of his terrible defense but the other two players are.
They are more skilled and have a wider range to their game than Rondo. So yes, they are an upgrade. And since you like to label constructive talk about improving the current Celtics roster  as scapegoating and the use of machine and animal analogies...
Just like a Mercedes S500 class is better than a Mercedes S320 class...they are both extremely nice and I would love to own either one, but if possible I'd take the S500 because overall it is rated (around the world) as a better car

This is a business, and CP3 is a 100% upgrade over Rondo.
He also has the potential to lure Dwight Howard here.
Sorry but if the trade is possible Danny Ainge does not turn it down. He might have to throw in Baby or Bradley or a pick, but he gets it done 100%.

[mc34]

There are three PGs in the league I would trade Rondo for:  Paul, Williams and Rose.


All three will make the Celtics better.  

  I don't think it's as clear that Williams or Rose make us better as people think. You'll get more production from the pg spot, you'll likely get less production from everywhere else.

Rondo is tough as nails. Chris Paul sits out a sprained ankle for 1-2 weeks. Rondo plays a season with a broken foot. Rondo brings intangibles.

Jesus guys. I love Rondo but its not like Chris Paul is soft for sitting out because of a sprained ankle. In case you forgot, Rondo missed 7 games (16 days) after spraining his ankle against the Knicks. When did Rondo play a season with a broken foot? Before people start calling me a hater, Rondo is my favorite player, so there.

[BASS_THUMPER]

[bfrombleacher]

There are three PGs in the league I would trade Rondo for:  Paul, Williams and Rose.


All three will make the Celtics better.  

  I don't think it's as clear that Williams or Rose make us better as people think. You'll get more production from the pg spot, you'll likely get less production from everywhere else.

Or even Paul. Rondo is tough as nails. Chris Paul sits out a sprained ankle for 1-2 weeks. Rondo plays a season with a broken foot. Rondo brings intangibles.

Rondo has 3 Hall of Famers....who are largely reduced to great jump shooters. His supporting cast is probably one of the weaker ones in the top teams (Rose has a serviceable center and younger guys to work with. Our bench was amazing until injury forced us to trade it all away.) A decent inside scorer (whether it be a slasher or a low post banger) would make Rondo amazing. Just look at what Rondo did with Shaq (or the half Shaq really). Shaq was having trouble scoring in Cleveland just a season ago and Rondo resurrected the man.

Did you just call Pierce, Ray and KG as the weakest teammates of all of these PGs?

I think Rondo has one of the less reliable teammates on the offensive end out of all the top teams.

Rose has Noah, who can get offensive rebounds, and Deng, who can finish at the rim better then any Celtic not named Rondo. Miami is Miami. The Lakers have Bynum and Pau Gasol.

They are what they are. They are three great players who are past their prime who play wonderful defense. They rely a lot on their jump shot now, which is really hard to land when the times are tough, causing offensive stagnation. The other top teams have a lot of different looks, Boston has a lot of jump shooting.