Anyone else feel betrayed by Wyc Grousbeck?

[gpap]

A couple weeks ago, there was an article on this site, talking about how Wyc wouldn't mind sacrificing an entire NBA season (among other owners) to get his point across.

That being the owners want to make more money and eliminate the "power" that players currently own.

Regardless, the cause of the lockout to me is, nonsense at it's finest.

As a fan, all I want to hear about is what teams are doing to retool and win a championship and could care less whether the owners or the players are going to walk away with their next billion.

Why don't they all join the real world, where people are busting their as*, making $11 an hour to make ends meet?

Anyway, back to the Wyc article: As fans, we helped resurrect the Celtics from irrevelance and mediocratiy and helped lead them to the top of the Boston sports scene.

Before this lockout, the Celtics were neck and neck with ALL 3 other Boston sports teams in popluarity. That is a fact!!

Those 19,000 people I was seeing at the Garden this year wasn't an illusion. So what does management do to repay our support? Sticks by their "line in the sand" during a war with the players over the wishes of the fans.

Instead of hearing who the Celtics are going to sign to win a title next year, we are hearing about how Wyc Grousbeck doesn't mind losing a season.

All I can say is this: When you lose fans, IT IS VERY, VERY, VERY HARD to get them back. I could care less if they sign Dwight Howard in 2012 or Moe Howard from the Three Stooges.

Love to hear thoughts:

[Roy H.]

I don't feel betrayed by Wyc.  He's been an extremely good owner for the team.

Regarding the lockout, the league isn't healthy right now.  If Wyc believes that a lost season is necessary to protect the long-term health of the league and/or his franchise, I guess I have to respect his opinion as a businessman. 

Much like in politics, I don't think short-term solutions are always the answer; sometimes you need to make big changes to protect the future.  While I'd much rather that we were talking about free agency right now, in a league where half the owners are losing money, something has to change.

[cman88]

we(the fans) never rescued the Celtics from mediocrity....Wyc and Danny ainge did. Wyc has been willing to spend to create a contendor..something that our past owners were'nt willing to do.

The system is broken in the NBA, and something needs to be done. While as a fan I would love to see the NBA season start as planned I can understand the owners take in this.

[screwedupmaniac]

Wyc Grousbeck has paid out the nose for this winning experience we've had since 2007, why would I feel betrayed?? If anyone feels betrayed, it's because they placed blind trust in a multi-millionaire with the false expectation that he was a simple minded Celtics fan like the rest of us. I'm sure he loves the game just as much as we do, but to assume that fandom is his only reason for owning the team is pretty naive.

[jdz101]

I don't think its as clear cut as you're making it. Were pretty lucky to have an owner that's willing to fork out big bucks for contracts to win championships. Give the guy a break, if you invest in something of the magnitude of a sports team soaked in tradition, you want it to be a profitable exercise. That's fair enough.

[housecall]

Although i believe half of what i read and hear about owners losing money there are some real problems.I think the numbers are a bit screwed to how many owners are really losing money,we probably will never know the real truth.There are plenty ways of disquising wealth these days and never get found out.
The league allowed some of the wrong people to take over some franchises imo.

Wyc happens to be one of the better owners in my opinion.He's a successful businessman that has proven he's all in...all in to doing what is needed to make this franchise stay on top.

[gpap]

we(the fans) never rescued the Celtics from mediocrity....Wyc and Danny ainge did. Wyc has been willing to spend to create a contendor..something that our past owners were'nt willing to do.

The system is broken in the NBA, and something needs to be done. While as a fan I would love to see the NBA season start as planned I can understand the owners take in this.

Hmmm, not entirely true. Yes, Wyc and Danny did an amazing job creating the 2007-08 team. However, to say the fans have nothing to do with a team's success is dead wrong (IMHO.)

Ownership could've signed all the starts in the world. If the fans don't show up, it's all meaningless. Look at Miami. Even though they signed Bosh, James and Wade, I still saw ALOT of empty seats for such a star-studded team.

I've spent ALOT of money on Celtics tickets over the years as others have as well. To negate the fans involvement in a team's success is just not fair.

[Eja117]

"betrayer" isn't the word I think of when I think of this guy. Not immediately anyway.  But if you'd like I can work myself up and show some faux outrage.  Just say the word. 

[paulcowens]

Notice how folks here want to have it both ways?  They want to praise Wyc to the skies for being SOOOOOOOO generous with his money, but they also think he should make as much money as possible off his INVESTMENT.   So, wait, how is it wonderfully generous of him to spend all that money IF IT'S A GOOD INVESTMENT?   Our first owner, Brown, was generous.  This one is just a hardheaded, hardfisted money guy,  which is ok, if not carried to an extreme, but hardly the qualities of someone we should be worshipping.  And if you think worship is too strong a word, tell me what this comment implies:

" If Wyc believes that a lost season is necessary to protect the long-term health of the league and/or his franchise, I guess I have to respect his opinion as a businessman. "

So this person is willing to suspend his own critical judgement, because Wyc is a "businessman".   What sense does that make?   Wyc is a highly INTERESTED PARTY in a dispute.  That means, ipso facto, that you take anything he says or does relating to that dispute with quite a bit of salt.  

I think we fans will find that the owners' hardheaded attitude (notice how that's always justified as 'business') will turn out to be a two-edged sword.  In fact, I think it already has.  I think we lost a very good chance at a championship last year, because Wyc was bound and determined to make an example out of Perkins, and what I want to know is why, if you all are such great fans, WHY DOESN'T THAT p--- YOU OFF?  Why are most fans so passive about this, still so willing to genuflect to the greatness of our owners and Danny and Doc.  What did they do, really, aside from taking a big chance that would never have paid off if our Big Four hadn't made it work (with significant help from Perkins, by the way)?

I find it rather strange that folks were so angry at Lebron for making what he claimed was a 'just business' decision (but we all knew it was a big '**** you' to Cleveland, right?), in view of the lack of anger at owners right now.  Why is it ok for owners to make a 'just business' decision (that we all know is a big '**** you' to the players), but it's not ok for the players to make such 'business' decisions?  What's with the double standard?  If Lebron was ****, why isn't Wyc ****?  Are you giving Wyc points for maybe being more media savvy than Lebron? Does being media savvy make being **** better?

Wyc threw away a chance for a championship last season.  In my opinion, that's an unforgivable offense in SportsWorld.  You NEVER blow off a chance at championship level excellence just to make a business point.  Never.  If that's the way you think, you should not be in sports ownership.

[gpap]

Notice how folks here want to have it both ways?  They want to praise Wyc to the skies for being SOOOOOOOO generous with his money, but they also think he should make as much money as possible off his INVESTMENT.   So, wait, how is it wonderfully generous of him to spend all that money IF IT'S A GOOD INVESTMENT?   Our first owner, Brown, was generous.  This one is just a hardheaded, hardfisted money guy,  which is ok, if not carried to an extreme, but hardly the qualities of someone we should be worshipping.  And if you think worship is too strong a word, tell me what this comment implies:

" If Wyc believes that a lost season is necessary to protect the long-term health of the league and/or his franchise, I guess I have to respect his opinion as a businessman. "

So this person is willing to suspend his own critical judgement, because Wyc is a "businessman".   What sense does that make?   Wyc is a highly INTERESTED PARTY in a dispute.  That means, ipso facto, that you take anything he says or does relating to that dispute with quite a bit of salt.  

I think we fans will find that the owners' hardheaded attitude (notice how that's always justified as 'business') will turn out to be a two-edged sword.  In fact, I think it already has.  I think we lost a very good chance at a championship last year, because Wyc was bound and determined to make an example out of Perkins, and what I want to know is why, if you all are such great fans, WHY DOESN'T THAT p--- YOU OFF?  Why are most fans so passive about this, still so willing to genuflect to the greatness of our owners and Danny and Doc.  What did they do, really, aside from taking a big chance that would never have paid off if our Big Four hadn't made it work (with significant help from Perkins, by the way)?

I find it rather strange that folks were so angry at Lebron for making what he claimed was a 'just business' decision (but we all knew it was a big '**** you' to Cleveland, right?), in view of the lack of anger at owners right now.  Why is it ok for owners to make a 'just business' decision (that we all know is a big '**** you' to the players), but it's not ok for the players to make such 'business' decisions?  What's with the double standard?  If Lebron was ****, why isn't Wyc ****?  Are you giving Wyc points for maybe being more media savvy than Lebron? Does being media savvy make being **** better?

Wyc threw away a chance for a championship last season.  In my opinion, that's an unforgivable offense in SportsWorld.  You NEVER blow off a chance at championship level excellence just to make a business point.  Never.  If that's the way you think, you should not be in sports ownership.

So true! And that's exactly the point I was trying to make. I just can't believe that some are excusing Grousbeck's decision to lock out the season because the owners aren't making enough money.

This is about the fans and that's it!! (in my mind.) If the owners are losing money, then maybe they're in the wrong line of work or incompetent at their job.

Why should we as fans have to suffer because of it?

They knew what they were getting into when they agreed to own a basketball team.

[kozlodoev]

That's not having it both ways. Making money off the team and being a good and generous owner are not mutually exclusive. 

[hardlyyardley]

Since when are :
return
on
capital

four letter words

remember the good old days of JR Bremer, Toine, Delk?

[Coach]

Which do you feel more betrayed about:

Wyc wanting to protect his investment

or

Players like Mark Blount stealing money from these guys?

[Roy H.]

Our first owner, Brown, was generous.  This one is just a hardheaded, hardfisted money guy,  which is ok, if not carried to an extreme, but hardly the qualities of someone we should be worshipping.

I disagree completely.  Wyc has been well over the luxury tax every season since 2008.  If he was a "hardheaded, hardfisted money guy", he would value profit over winning.  Clearly, he doesn't.  The Celtics made $4.2 million in 2010, 12th in the NBA.  Wyc easily could have made more than that, like his colleagues with the Pistons, Raptors, Clippers, Suns, and Warriors.  Instead, he spent well over the luxury tax to maximize our chances on the floor.

The Perk trade wasn't, in my opinion, about money.  Perhaps it was about cap space, but that's a whole different subject.  Wyc has shown that when things come down to money, he doesn't mind spending it.

Lastly, as an aside, I don't want a "generous" owner, at least when it comes to player salaries.  The NBA has a salary cap, and generosity with guaranteed contracts is a terrible idea.  Rather, we need smart, calculating owners (and management) who don't give players contracts they don't earn or deserve.

[kozlodoev]

Our first owner, Brown, was generous.  This one is just a hardheaded, hardfisted money guy,  which is ok, if not carried to an extreme, but hardly the qualities of someone we should be worshipping.

I disagree completely.  Wyc has been well over the luxury tax every season since 2008.  If he was a "hardheaded, hardfisted money guy", he would value profit over winning.  Clearly, he doesn't.  The Celtics made $4.2 million in 2010, 12th in the NBA.  Wyc easily could have made more than that, like his colleagues with the Pistons, Raptors, Clippers, Suns, and Warriors.  Instead, he spent well over the luxury tax to maximize our chances on the floor.

The Perk trade wasn't, in my opinion, about money.  Perhaps it was about cap space, but that's a whole different subject.  Wyc has shown that when things come down to money, he doesn't mind spending it.

People seem to have forgotten Paul Gaston pretty quickly. Alas.