Mchale Vs. Bird

[BballTim]

No, I don't think anybody ever did, including McHale's mother.

Larry was a better scorer, passer, and rebounder than McHale.  McHale had the edge in post moves and defense.

Larry was a better team defender, and that points to the key difference.  Based solely on individual skills, abilities and contributions, you know, one might even go for Mchale.  He was, after all, arguably the most savage post scorer ever.  But with Bird you get that higher level that few players have;  he was one of the best team leaders ever.

  Bird wasn't the most athletic player but he was probably the most skilled player in the history of the league. I think the only other players in the running would be Oscar and (possibly) Magic.

[celtics2]

Can't take it away from Larry. Only one better player back then. Magic. McHale had his differences with Bird and made them known. Larry was a gunner. McHale would have made half of Birds missed shots.

[Roy H.]

Can't take it away from Larry. Only one better player back then. Magic. McHale had his differences with Bird and made them known. Larry was a gunner. McHale would have made half of Birds missed shots.

I don't think that Magic was better than Larry.  I think he was different.  I think Larry and Magic were as evenly matched as two superstars can be, even though they contributed in largely different ways.

[dark_lord]

mchale was great.....but better than larry?!?!?

[Celtics17]

I have to agree with JHTruth on this one. Someone please remind me how to post his comment here along with mine? Anyway, until McHale was hurt in the 86-87 season I too thought he was the best in the game and Larry won the MVP that year. Wow, when was the last time a team could say that?

McHale though was not Larry's equal for his career. They were the perfect inside/outside threat though and actually helped each other. McHale is, in my opinion, in the running for the best power forward of all time. He was automatic, unstoppable, and a premier defender as well.

[soap07]

  Bird wasn't the most athletic player but he was probably the most skilled player in the history of the league. I think the only other players in the running would be Oscar and (possibly) Magic.

I don't see how Jordan is not in this discussion.

[BballTim]

  Bird wasn't the most athletic player but he was probably the most skilled player in the history of the league. I think the only other players in the running would be Oscar and (possibly) Magic.

I don't see how Jordan is not in this discussion.

  I don't see how he is. Bird is arguably the best passer and best shooter the game has ever seen, he's probably the best foul shooting forward ever and the best or close to the best at rebounding for his position. Jordan was great at getting to the hoop (especially since opposing centers had to vacate the lane) and a great defender. I'd say every phase of Bird's game was significantly better than Jordan's passing or Jordan's outside shooting, both of which were decent but not great.

[bucks#1]

I heard a sportswriter once say that "Bird is the best player in the league and the second best player on the Celtics." in referring to Bird and McHale

[slamtheking]

I had the privilege of seeing their entire careers and Larry was most definitely better than Mchale.   

Having said that, Mchale was an amazing player and definitely one of the best big men to ever play the game.  Until the injuries really dogged them in the late 80's, one of them would pull a move that would just make you go "whoa" almost nightly. 

If I had a chance to bring one of them back into the league in their prime, I'd be truly torn which one to pick.  Not because I think Mchale is Bird's equal but because there is absolutely no one in the league with moves even close to what Mchale had.  (Big Al can be a treat to watch on his good nights but he's but a shadow of what Mchale was).

[soap07]

  Bird wasn't the most athletic player but he was probably the most skilled player in the history of the league. I think the only other players in the running would be Oscar and (possibly) Magic.

I don't see how Jordan is not in this discussion.

  I don't see how he is. Bird is arguably the best passer and best shooter the game has ever seen, he's probably the best foul shooting forward ever and the best or close to the best at rebounding for his position. Jordan was great at getting to the hoop (especially since opposing centers had to vacate the lane) and a great defender. I'd say every phase of Bird's game was significantly better than Jordan's passing or Jordan's outside shooting, both of which were decent but not great.

Jordan's scoring skill alone puts him in the discussion. How's being among the greatest at getting to the hoop/being an excellent defender not good enough to get him in the discussion but Bird being a great shooter/passer is?


And no, Bird wasn't the best or close to the best at his position for rebounding. Better rebounders at the same position going by rebounding rate alone: Rodman, Moses, Larry Smith, Duncan, Barkley, Malone, Cowens...etc etc. He was a good rebounder, not great.

[BballTim]

  Bird wasn't the most athletic player but he was probably the most skilled player in the history of the league. I think the only other players in the running would be Oscar and (possibly) Magic.

I don't see how Jordan is not in this discussion.

  I don't see how he is. Bird is arguably the best passer and best shooter the game has ever seen, he's probably the best foul shooting forward ever and the best or close to the best at rebounding for his position. Jordan was great at getting to the hoop (especially since opposing centers had to vacate the lane) and a great defender. I'd say every phase of Bird's game was significantly better than Jordan's passing or Jordan's outside shooting, both of which were decent but not great.

Jordan's scoring skill alone puts him in the discussion. How's being among the greatest at getting to the hoop/being an excellent defender not good enough to get him in the discussion but Bird being a great shooter/passer is?


And no, Bird wasn't the best or close to the best at his position for rebounding. Better rebounders at the same position going by rebounding rate alone: Rodman, Moses, Larry Smith, Duncan, Barkley, Malone, Cowens...etc etc. He was a good rebounder, not great.

  Bird was a small forward. Those guys are mainly power forwards and centers.

[Edgar]

Bird was slightly better

but also he was the leader of the Team McHale was in

Larry
then an more close than most think
Kevin

[2short]

  Bird wasn't the most athletic player but he was probably the most skilled player in the history of the league. I think the only other players in the running would be Oscar and (possibly) Magic.

I don't see how Jordan is not in this discussion.

  I don't see how he is. Bird is arguably the best passer and best shooter the game has ever seen, he's probably the best foul shooting forward ever and the best or close to the best at rebounding for his position. Jordan was great at getting to the hoop (especially since opposing centers had to vacate the lane) and a great defender. I'd say every phase of Bird's game was significantly better than Jordan's passing or Jordan's outside shooting, both of which were decent but not great.

Jordan's scoring skill alone puts him in the discussion. How's being among the greatest at getting to the hoop/being an excellent defender not good enough to get him in the discussion but Bird being a great shooter/passer is?


And no, Bird wasn't the best or close to the best at his position for rebounding. Better rebounders at the same position going by rebounding rate alone: Rodman, Moses, Larry Smith, Duncan, Barkley, Malone, Cowens...etc etc. He was a good rebounder, not great.

  Bird was a small forward. Those guys are mainly power forwards and centers.

thank you for pointing that out, bird was a small forward and even though he didn't work on the box when he was there his low post moves were very good and his passing out of the post is as good as any player ever
I watched bird and mchales full careers, they are not in the same discussion.  Then again, hondo, cowens, etc aren't in the same league as bird.  For the celtics only cous & russ should be in same discussion as mr bird (he was that good)
also good point by roy about magic & bird, I personally loved both their passing abilities, they made every other player on the floor that much better be it rambis, greg kite or dj and cooper.  Jordan was never at that level as a passer/teammate.

[blueygreen]

I also think the difference here between Bird/Jordan is in the definition of skill vs. athleticism. Jordan's athleticism was through the roof, and it was a large part of his overall success, both offensively and defensively. Bird, however, wouldn't be found running faster or jumping higher than many players of a similar build (of course he was still quite tall, which was a big advantage for him) and thus his success at both ends of the floor was more based on 'skill' and 'technique'. MJ was obviously still a very skilled player and one could definitely argue that it takes just as much skill for a player to use their athleticism as only one facet of a much more polished game, rather than completely relying upon it like we see so many players do these days. But I think the argument BballTim was trying to make was that while Jordan was skilled, very skilled, Bird might be the most technically proficient player to ever grace the floor by virtue of his great passing, shooting, rebounding, vision and positioning.   

[celtics2]

uummmm, still Magic Johnson. All 5 positions.......