Deron Williams heading to Turkey?

[Chris]

Next, there isn't that much money overseas.

Yeah, this is what the word has been lately.  There are only a handful of teams in Europe who can afford the superstar type money it would take to lure these guys, and those spots are very limited.

Also, European teams are going to be hessitant to put too much money into a player that will leave as soon as the lockout ends.

I think there will certainly be some more players that go over there, but I don't think it is going to be all that many.

[Mike-Dub]

Well, this still has to be approved by FIBA, and supposedly for them to approve it, they would need to obtain permission from the Nets, since Williams is under contract.  So, unless Prokorov wants to really rile up the other owners, by setting a major precedent that does a lot to hurt their bargaining strength, this won't go through.

On the other hand, letting Williams do this could give the Nets some good will when it comes to getting Williams to resign, and I have a feeling Prokorov is not a fan of the hard liners in this lockout, and could decide to basically tell them to screw off...which could have real implications in the negotiations, although I am not sure whether they would be good or bad for the chances of us seeing the NBA anytime soon.

Thing about this is, if the governing bodies that be choose to prevent this type of move, they open themselves up to lawsuits galore.  It has already been determined in courts that it is illegal to lockout your employees AND prohibit them from seeking other employment during the course of said lockout.  I'm not so sure FIBA,USA Basketball, or the NBA owners want to go down that road.

It will be interesting.  But I am pretty sure NBA owners will do everything they can to prevent this.  And I am not so sure they would lose in court on it.  

This isn't preventing them from seeking other employment, it is preventing them from seeking other employment with organizations that are under the FIBA umbrella.

I also don't think FIBA can stop the Turkish team from signing him.  However, they could essentially bar that team from being part of FIBA if they do.

  Wouldn't the length of the contract play into this? He's not signing a contract that would have him play in Europe during the nba season, just a contract that's in effect while the nba is refusing to honor the agreement that they signed with him.

NESN is reporting from JazzHoops.net that it is for $200,000 per month.

Williams, who would be receiving $16.5 million this upcoming season, according to JazzHoops.net, will reportedly receive $200,000 per month.

http://www.nesn.com/2011/07/report-deron-williams-signs-with-turkish-club-besiktas-for-200000-per-month.html

I believe this is probably the case, but as we all know NESN is not the best place to go for NBA coverage.

[KGs Knee]

Well, this still has to be approved by FIBA, and supposedly for them to approve it, they would need to obtain permission from the Nets, since Williams is under contract.  So, unless Prokorov wants to really rile up the other owners, by setting a major precedent that does a lot to hurt their bargaining strength, this won't go through.

Interesting.  It's a novel theory of contract, I guess:  we can lock you out, not pay you, etc., but we also can keep you from working elsewhere.  I'm skeptical that interpretation would hold up in court; either there is an enforceable contract between the parties, or there isn't.  That said, I'm not a labor attorney, so who knows?

Here's what David Stern said on the subject fairly recently:

Whether the NBA will try to prevent locked-out players such as Kobe Bryant and Dirk Nowitzki, while still under contract to their NBA teams, from playing abroad during a potential work stoppage

"If, in fact, there's a lockout, then the player is free during the course of the lockout to do what he wants to do if his contract is in effect. I don't want to play that game with anybody. ... If we have a collective bargaining arrangement with the union and there's a lockout, then last time around [in 1998] players were free to do what they're going to do, because they've been locked out."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=6125242

Here's the question though.  Can US courts stop FIBA from telling international teams not to sign players?

That would be tricky.  The NBA is complicit with FIBA though as well as USA Basketball, so who knows.

The players could tell USA Basketball, if they don't pressure FIBA to relent, they will not be playing in any more olypmic games.  Would USA basketball want to be the only country without professionals?

[Chris]

Well, this still has to be approved by FIBA, and supposedly for them to approve it, they would need to obtain permission from the Nets, since Williams is under contract.  So, unless Prokorov wants to really rile up the other owners, by setting a major precedent that does a lot to hurt their bargaining strength, this won't go through.

On the other hand, letting Williams do this could give the Nets some good will when it comes to getting Williams to resign, and I have a feeling Prokorov is not a fan of the hard liners in this lockout, and could decide to basically tell them to screw off...which could have real implications in the negotiations, although I am not sure whether they would be good or bad for the chances of us seeing the NBA anytime soon.

Thing about this is, if the governing bodies that be choose to prevent this type of move, they open themselves up to lawsuits galore.  It has already been determined in courts that it is illegal to lockout your employees AND prohibit them from seeking other employment during the course of said lockout.  I'm not so sure FIBA,USA Basketball, or the NBA owners want to go down that road.

It will be interesting.  But I am pretty sure NBA owners will do everything they can to prevent this.  And I am not so sure they would lose in court on it. 

This isn't preventing them from seeking other employment, it is preventing them from seeking other employment with organizations that are under the FIBA umbrella.

I also don't think FIBA can stop the Turkish team from signing him.  However, they could essentially bar that team from being part of FIBA if they do.

  Wouldn't the length of the contract play into this? He's not signing a contract that would have him play in Europe during the nba season, just a contract that's in effect while the nba is refusing to honor the agreement that they signed with him.

From what I have read, that doesn't matter to FIBA.  They just have a blanket no tampering rule.  If a guy is under contract with another team, you can't steal them away without permission (buyout, whatever).

Of course the question is whether FIBA will consider players under contract during a lockout.  From what I have read, they will.  But who knows.

[Who]

Edit: Sorry, incorrect information to begin with.

I did find an answer to the question, sort of, from Larry Coon's FAQ on the lockout on ESPN

Can NBA players play overseas during a lockout?

The answer to this one is "It's complicated." Stern said as far as he's concerned, the players can do what they want to do. But keep in mind, he's going to say that regardless -- he doesn't want to appear in any way to be trying to prevent the players from earning a living. Labor laws don't allow an employer to lock out its employees and prevent them from earning a living elsewhere.

Ultimately, it doesn't matter what Stern says or does -- the decision isn't up to him.

In order to play professionally overseas, FIBA (the organizing body for international basketball) requires a Letter of Clearance from the player's national organizing body. In the case of players from the United States, that's USA Basketball. The Letter of Clearance certifies that the player is free to sign a contract -- i.e., he has no other contractual obligations that would get in the way. An NBA contract is such a contractual obligation. Lockout or not, it's still an existing contract. So on the surface, an NBA player who's under contract would not be allowed to sign in any FIBA league. NBA free agents, on the other hand, can sign wherever they'd like.

But here's the rub -- we're getting into uncharted territory. FIBA has never found itself in this position before. FIBA could decide to alter or suspend its rule requiring a Letter of Clearance, or allow contracts to be signed so long as they contain language that says the contract becomes null and void immediately if the NBA lockout ends.

More likely, FIBA simply would stick to its existing rule, essentially punting the problem to the national organizing bodies. These bodies (such as USA Basketball) could decide to issue a Letter of Clearance notwithstanding the NBA lockout. Or they could issue a Letter of Clearance with a specific notation about the lockout -- essentially punting the problem right back to FIBA.

Finally, the NBA players could take FIBA and/or the national organizing bodies to court. The ability to block players in a lockout has never been tested through litigation, and once they're there, anything can happen.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=coon_larry&page=lockoutFAQ-110701

[Roy H.]

Well, this still has to be approved by FIBA, and supposedly for them to approve it, they would need to obtain permission from the Nets, since Williams is under contract.  So, unless Prokorov wants to really rile up the other owners, by setting a major precedent that does a lot to hurt their bargaining strength, this won't go through.

Interesting.  It's a novel theory of contract, I guess:  we can lock you out, not pay you, etc., but we also can keep you from working elsewhere.  I'm skeptical that interpretation would hold up in court; either there is an enforceable contract between the parties, or there isn't.  That said, I'm not a labor attorney, so who knows?

Here's what David Stern said on the subject fairly recently:

Whether the NBA will try to prevent locked-out players such as Kobe Bryant and Dirk Nowitzki, while still under contract to their NBA teams, from playing abroad during a potential work stoppage

"If, in fact, there's a lockout, then the player is free during the course of the lockout to do what he wants to do if his contract is in effect. I don't want to play that game with anybody. ... If we have a collective bargaining arrangement with the union and there's a lockout, then last time around [in 1998] players were free to do what they're going to do, because they've been locked out."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=6125242

Here's the question though.  Can US courts stop FIBA from telling international teams not to sign players?

U.S. courts (or perhaps an arbitrator) could rule that the contract isn't enforceable during a lockout, which might lift any F.I.B.A. restriction.

[ManUp]

The players ability to head to Europe is probably going to rain all over the owners lockout parade this time.

[Eddie20]

Curious to know if the reported 200,000 is indeed in dollars, or is it in euros. Makes a difference.

[Chris]

The players ability to head to Europe is probably going to rain all over the owners lockout parade this time.

Eh, I am not so sure about that.  Particularly if the reported contract terms are true.

The bottom line is, these guys still want to play in the NBA, and while there are a few big contracts out there in Europe, there is not that much money out there to keep all of these guys happy.

It certainly doesn't help the owners cause, but I don't think it will hurt them much either.

[Who]

I don't think NBA players playing in Europe will make any difference to the on-going negotiations.

There isn't enough money over there for a large enough number of top NBA players to ply their trade there. Nevermind the rest of the players in the league. There will still going to be a huge number of players unemployed or operating on (relatively) low paying basketball jobs. 

I don't see it making any difference whatsoever to the CBA negotiations.

[Mike-Dub]

Marc Stein just said on ESPN that the NBA really can't stop this.  

[KGs Knee]

Edit: Sorry, incorrect information to begin with.

I did find an answer to the question, sort of, from Larry Coon's FAQ on the lockout on ESPN

Can NBA players play overseas during a lockout?

The answer to this one is "It's complicated." Stern said as far as he's concerned, the players can do what they want to do. But keep in mind, he's going to say that regardless -- he doesn't want to appear in any way to be trying to prevent the players from earning a living. Labor laws don't allow an employer to lock out its employees and prevent them from earning a living elsewhere.

Ultimately, it doesn't matter what Stern says or does -- the decision isn't up to him.

In order to play professionally overseas, FIBA (the organizing body for international basketball) requires a Letter of Clearance from the player's national organizing body. In the case of players from the United States, that's USA Basketball. The Letter of Clearance certifies that the player is free to sign a contract -- i.e., he has no other contractual obligations that would get in the way. An NBA contract is such a contractual obligation. Lockout or not, it's still an existing contract. So on the surface, an NBA player who's under contract would not be allowed to sign in any FIBA league. NBA free agents, on the other hand, can sign wherever they'd like.

But here's the rub -- we're getting into uncharted territory. FIBA has never found itself in this position before. FIBA could decide to alter or suspend its rule requiring a Letter of Clearance, or allow contracts to be signed so long as they contain language that says the contract becomes null and void immediately if the NBA lockout ends.

More likely, FIBA simply would stick to its existing rule, essentially punting the problem to the national organizing bodies. These bodies (such as USA Basketball) could decide to issue a Letter of Clearance notwithstanding the NBA lockout. Or they could issue a Letter of Clearance with a specific notation about the lockout -- essentially punting the problem right back to FIBA.

Finally, the NBA players could take FIBA and/or the national organizing bodies to court. The ability to block players in a lockout has never been tested through litigation, and once they're there, anything can happen.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=coon_larry&page=lockoutFAQ-110701

TP.  This was the article I was looking for, you just were quicker!

Basically FIBA has to get USA Baketball's permission (not the NBA's).  I highly doubt USA Basketball would stop this, as it would open them up to a lawsuit they would likely lose.  Futhermore, do they really want to alienate the players, and therfore be the only country without professionals in the olympics?

[Moranis]

I don't think NBA players playing in Europe will make any difference to the on-going negotiations.

There isn't enough money over there for a large enough number of top NBA players to ply their trade there. Nevermind the rest of the players in the league. There will still going to be a huge number of players unemployed or operating on (relatively) low paying basketball jobs. 

I don't see it making any difference whatsoever to the CBA negotiations.

Here is the chicken v. egg debate

Is the lack of money in Europe because it is basketball or because it is minor league basketball? 

I mean if all of a sudden Lebron, Wade, Kobe, Dirk, Pau, Paul, Williams, Melo, Garnett, Pierce, Howard, Durant, etc. were playing in Europe would the interest in the sport increase to the point where the money could be comparable. 

I really don't know the answer to that question, but it would be interesting to find out.

[thirstyboots18]

I heard one of the  team lawyers say that the teams would lose a suit because they can't void the contract by not paying the player and then turn around and hold the player to that same contract

Free agents and rookies who have no contract are generally not able to get a release clause in their European  contract, so we could lose them even if the lockout is ended.  Some of the NBA players who have signed these contracts have release clauses  included so they can come back to the NBA if they choose.

The financial news channel said that since the economy in Europe is worse than here, except for a few of the "stars" the pay and/or insurance guarantees may not be worth it for most players (insurance against injury, etc.)

[Moranis]

Williams agent has confirmed that there is a contract and it will be finalized in the next 24 hours.  It does have an immediate out clause if the NBA season resumes and Williams won't report until the end of August or early September.

Apparently the Turkish team he is signing with Besiktas is also close to an agreement with Zaza Pachulia as well.  Besiktas is the team that signed Iverson last year.