Would MJ have won 6 rings without Phil Jackson?

[syfy9]

I was really wondering about this for quite some time. Could Jordan have won as many championships as he did without one of the best coaches of all time? Could he have gotten past the Bad Boys and their Jordan Rules without the triangle offense? I was looking elsewhere and thought I'd ask you all your incite.

[Who]

I doubt it.

[Donoghus]

I still think they would've won multiple titles.  They were one heckuva basketball team during that 2nd Three-Peat. 

I don't know about six, though.  Jackson certainly played an important role.

[Fafnir]

Its hard to have your talent and opportunities better than Jordan did.

So pull Phil out of the picture I don't see him winning more, I do think he'd have won some titles.

[RebusRankin]

Yes

[Overrated]

6 rings, probably not, but I'd say 4 or 5.

I think it's too easy to give Jackson credit for players getting their rings (MJ, Kobe) because he has always had the best player in the game with him. That's not to say I'm giving him no credit, though 

[housecall]

Yes...Maybe the bigger question i have is would they have been consecutive championships without Phil Jackson.

[Finkelskyhook]

The better question is how many rings would Jordan have won without the Jordan Rules?

At least one less for sure.  No other player of that era would have gotten away with the flagrant pushoff on Bryon Russell in front of 2 officials.

[mgent]

Are you guys joking?

Of course he would've still won.  Which ring was Jackson responsible for?

I wouldn't overrate "managing the personalities" that much.  The main reason why Jackson is considered "one of the best of all time" is because he had so many stacked teams.  Those Bulls teams were good enough to win no matter what, a different coach wouldn't have been a big deal.

[Cman]

I was really wondering about this for quite some time. Could Jordan have won as many championships as he did without one of the best coaches of all time? Could he have gotten past the Bad Boys and their Jordan Rules without the triangle offense? I was looking elsewhere and thought I'd ask you all your incite.

This question turns on its head some thoughts that got a lot of play here on cblog as recently as June 2010.  Namely, how many rings would Phil have won without MJ?  Or rather, if Phil had never had the oppty to coach a team with MJ, would people still think he was such a great coach?

[mgent]

The better question is how many rings would Jordan have won without the Jordan Rules?

At least one less for sure.  No other player of that era would have gotten away with the flagrant pushoff on Bryon Russell in front of 2 officials.

That question doesn't just apply to Jordan though.  Kobe's last two rings come into question.  Wade's ring is gone without the refs' help.  The Celtics likely overcome the Perk injury if the refs don't make a joke of that (halfway-through) game 7.  If LeBron has to play without LeBron rules, he's gotta have negative rings.

[CelticsFanNC]

  Probably not 6 but he still win his share in the 90's.  The era in which he dominated wasn't nearly as competitive or as stacked at the top as the 80's were because the talent base was watered down due to a huge amount of expansion during the mid-late 80's and early 90's.

  Put Jordan's Bull's in the 80's and they'd have been lucky to win more then one ring IMO.  As great as he was his teams couldn't have over come the huge talent advantage both the 80's Lakers and 80's Celtics had ever his Bull's teams.  I think this fact gets lost when people discuss the greatness of 90's Bull's.  They dominated an inferior era, the only era in NBA history where one guy dominating the basketball could win multiple championships.

[OsirusCeltics]

He wouldn't have won all those rings if he played in a more competitive era
The 90's were very watered down. The league added like 10 extra teams from '88-'95

He would never have won all those rings in the 80's...NEVER
Its not a coincidence that once the 80's hall of famers started to get old (Magic, Bird, Julius Erving, Isiah, Kareem, etc.), he started racking up rings

[slamtheking]

I'm sure he wins regardless of whether Phil was coaching or not.  anyone other than Vinny Del Negro could have coached them to a title with Jordan getting to play by his own set of rules.

I think the bigger questions (as others have raised here) are:
1) would Phil have won any rings if he wasn't coaching that Bulls team with Jordan or the Laker teams with Kobe?  I doubt it.  As an example, Riley lost his mystical infallibility once he left the Lakers.

2) would those Bulls teams have won any title in the 80's or the 00's?  I don't think they beat anyone in the 80's.  They probably win a few since 2000.  Probably beat the Pistons, Heat and Mavs title teams since 2000.  I don't see any MJ title team having the necessary balance to beat the other teams that have won in the past decade or so (basically since the Kobe-Shaq title teams).

[CelticG1]

Would Scottie Pippen have one 6 without Phil?