Celtics should bench the Big 3 during the regular season

[OsirusCeltics]

What do you mean by "bench the Big 3". How many minutes, what roles, etc...

Its important to preserve the Big 3's bodies, but the team still needs to be accustomed to the roles they'll need to play in the playoffs against the best competition.

I'm thinking Celtics could start them, but play them bench minutes, about 20 mpg. A good example would be the way the Spurs limited Duncan's role this past regular season. He starts games, but they plays weren't run for him that much

Tim Duncan still played 28 mpg.

I don't think any of the Big 3 should play less than that, too much of a disruption of their role and rhthym for the entire team. They weren't run into the ground this past year for the most part, but cutting another 2-3 MPG off their totals each wouldn't hurt.

He played 28 min? Wow, seemed like he hardly played much. Yeah you have a point. But somehow I want Doc to run plays for other guys instead of "give it to the Big 3 and get out the way" offense. I think its time to give more attention to the younger guys next season

He doesn't "give it to the big 3 and get out of the way".

They run plays that have a bunch of options for everyone, the Big 3 when they are out there are 3 of the 4 best offensive players out there. (the other is Rondo who usually has the ball anyways)

True. But I hardly remember a time where the bench scored without any of the Big 3 being part of the play. I feel the Celtics are too dependent on them. Especially with their age, its time to cut their minutes. They need to uncover some young talent

[LooseCannon]

You might be better off committing to giving each of them a few days off during the season where you make one of them inactive on the second game of a back to back.

[Marcus13]

We just need them capped at 30 mpg and we'd be fine.

Doc doesnt work well with caps though on anybody.  He absolutely ran Ray Allen into the ground.  I don't care what condition you're in, playing a 35 year old for 25 mpg 80 games a year plus playoffs takes its toll on anybody

[Weird Facts]

Nice.

We'll let you coach the team too
& I can be GM. 

[Chris]

True. But I hardly remember a time where the bench scored without any of the Big 3 being part of the play. I feel the Celtics are too dependent on them. Especially with their age, its time to cut their minutes. They need to uncover some young talent

While I do agree that their minutes need to be cut a bit, I think you are touching on a very different issue, which, IMO is much more important.  

I think these guys, especially Ray and Pierce can still play 30-35 minutes (and more in the playoffs) and be very effective (KG really needs to be capped in the 30-35 minute range).  The problem is, these guys can no longer carry the team on the backs for multiple games in a row.  Now, they are all at a point in their career, where they are only dominant in spurts, compared to a few years ago, where they could be dominant on a more consistent basis.

What killed the C's this year was that no one other than the Big 3 were stepping up, so that when the Big 3 were not hitting on all cylinders, the team just fell apart.  

In 2010, they had a healthy Rondo for the playoffs, and in different games, Rondo, Perkins, Davis, and Nate all took turns carrying a larger portion of the load, so that Pierce, KG and Allen only had to really carry the team to maybe 9 or 10 of their 15 wins.  Contrast that to 2011, where they Rondo led the way to 1 win, but the other 4 were led by KG, Pierce, or Allen (or some combination of the 3), and no one else (Davis, West, Green, JO) stepped up enough to lift them to any other wins.

So, the key isn't going to be minutes IMO, it is going to be getting those other guys to play a bigger role.  Now, a lot of it will come down on Rondo being healthy.  And if Green comes back, he is the most capable of picking up that torch as well.  But no matter how few minutes the Big 3 play, this team is sunk if the other guys do not put things together and lift this team to at least a handful of wins in the playoffs.

[OsirusCeltics]

Nice.

We'll let you coach the team too
& I can be GM. 

So the Big 3 didn't look tired after every playoff game against the Heat? The always had good starts, but their tiredness prevented them from finishing

[OsirusCeltics]

True. But I hardly remember a time where the bench scored without any of the Big 3 being part of the play. I feel the Celtics are too dependent on them. Especially with their age, its time to cut their minutes. They need to uncover some young talent

While I do agree that their minutes need to be cut a bit, I think you are touching on a very different issue, which, IMO is much more important.  

I think these guys, especially Ray and Pierce can still play 30-35 minutes (and more in the playoffs) and be very effective (KG really needs to be capped in the 30-35 minute range).  The problem is, these guys can no longer carry the team on the backs for multiple games in a row.  Now, they are all at a point in their career, where they are only dominant in spurts, compared to a few years ago, where they could be dominant on a more consistent basis.

What killed the C's this year was that no one other than the Big 3 were stepping up, so that when the Big 3 were not hitting on all cylinders, the team just fell apart.  

In 2010, they had a healthy Rondo for the playoffs, and in different games, Rondo, Perkins, Davis, and Nate all took turns carrying a larger portion of the load, so that Pierce, KG and Allen only had to really carry the team to maybe 9 or 10 of their 15 wins.  Contrast that to 2011, where they Rondo led the way to 1 win, but the other 4 were led by KG, Pierce, or Allen (or some combination of the 3), and no one else (Davis, West, Green, JO) stepped up enough to lift them to any other wins.

So, the key isn't going to be minutes IMO, it is going to be getting those other guys to play a bigger role.  Now, a lot of it will come down on Rondo being healthy.  And if Green comes back, he is the most capable of picking up that torch as well.  But no matter how few minutes the Big 3 play, this team is sunk if the other guys do not put things together and lift this team to at least a handful of wins in the playoffs.

TP, very true. I still want the Big 3 to play 25mpg tops
Doc has to start running plays for Jeff Green, West, the new draft picks, Wafer, Bradley etc.
This is the reason why so many of the bench players looked lost when the star players are out of the game. Celtics are too dependent on Ray, Paul, and KG

[pearljammer10]

This trio is probably the best combination of three players in the history of the league. They need another title to cement their legacies...
But for this year, they should be benched for the regular season. They have plenty left in the tank but Celtics would be a much better team if they give younger guys a chance to play significant minutes. Here are my reasons

1. It preserves the veterans until the games really matter. The Big 3 have been the league for 12+ seasons. It makes no sense to tire them out in a 82 game season. Games count more in the 16 games in the playoffs

2. Younger guys are more eager to win regular season games. They are more energetic, get to loose balls faster, rebound more, etc. They don't lose interest in the dog days of the regular season. Look at those older teams. Both the Lakers and Celtics didn't play to their potential during the season (The Pistons 5 years ago with Billups and Sheed fell victim to that also). Plain and simple they just don't care

I rather have younger guys who are fighting to make a name in this league start. They would win those games against the Nets and Wolves that Celtics usually lose too. It doesn't hurt that it helps the seeding for HCA

3. It gets the younger guys more acclimated into the Celtic system. I always felt it was so hard for new guys to fit on this team. They have so much pressure because of the shadow the Big 3 has over this team. Like they can't make a mistake or their punished and sent to the bench

Not to mention, it helps the younger guys gain confidence and become better players. Also down the line in the playoffs they would win games for the Celtics. We all know how the Mavs bench was huge for their Finals win

Great idea. Then we can not make the playoffs. Best idea I've heard on hear yet.

[celtics2]

They will most likely be benched, won't be much round ball played anyway. 22 teams lost $$. Depends on how much charity they can get. Stern is Captain of the Titanic and the iceberg is just ahead.

[erisred]

You might be better off committing to giving each of them a few days off during the season where you make one of them inactive on the second game of a back to back.

That's what I thought the OP was going to suggest and something I strongly favor. The starters are starters and should play starter minutes...sure keep them down to 28 to 32, but play them that many. But also rest them several games throughout the year, give KG a night off on a back to back, sit Pierce for a game when he has a little nagging injury instead of having him play through it, let Allen take a night off now and then. Try to keep 2 of the 3 starting every game, and most of the time 3 or 3, but for 8, 10, 12 games rest them...and this applies to Rondo, too. The C's will probably lose some games they would have won if you do this, but I think they'll get to the playoffs stronger and deeper and the playoffs are what matters most.

[greenpride32]

So the Big 3 didn't look tired after every playoff game against the Heat? The always had good starts, but their tiredness prevented them from finishing

We had plenty of bad 1Q, 2Q, 3Q, and 4Q performances.  Of the big 3, KG is the only one that really needs additional rest because of the bad knee.  Since you want to reference the Heat series, we scored 14 points in Q1 game; 16 points Q2 game 2, 17 points Q2 game 3; no we did not always start good.

I used to think the C's were awful at back to backs because it gets so much press; but then I looked at the stats (don't have them handy now) for other teams and league wide, and all teams have poor recordes under this scenario. I think it has more to do with different time zones and having your sleep schedule constantly thrown off, than with age alone.

[OsirusCeltics]

So the Big 3 didn't look tired after every playoff game against the Heat? The always had good starts, but their tiredness prevented them from finishing

We had plenty of bad 1Q, 2Q, 3Q, and 4Q performances.  Of the big 3, KG is the only one that really needs additional rest because of the bad knee.  Since you want to reference the Heat series, we scored 14 points in Q1 game; 16 points Q2 game 2, 17 points Q2 game 3; no we did not always start good.

I used to think the C's were awful at back to backs because it gets so much press; but then I looked at the stats (don't have them handy now) for other teams and league wide, and all teams have poor recordes under this scenario. I think it has more to do with different time zones and having your sleep schedule constantly thrown off, than with age alone.

This is my point. I know the Big 3 CAN play 30-35 minutes, they proved that last year. But I see that as counterproductive to have the offense so dependent on only 3 players for next season

There needs to be a spread of wealth. Theres too many cases of new players on this team feeling lost. Doc hardly draws plays for "the other guys" and the players feel out of place and are pressured to fit in or they get benched

Age has something to do with it though. the 3 are all have played 12+ seasons and theres alot of wear and tear. Just preserve them (25 mpg) and just let the younger guys get more opportunities to make a mark on this team

[Fafnir]

So the Big 3 didn't look tired after every playoff game against the Heat? The always had good starts, but their tiredness prevented them from finishing

We had plenty of bad 1Q, 2Q, 3Q, and 4Q performances.  Of the big 3, KG is the only one that really needs additional rest because of the bad knee.  Since you want to reference the Heat series, we scored 14 points in Q1 game; 16 points Q2 game 2, 17 points Q2 game 3; no we did not always start good.

I used to think the C's were awful at back to backs because it gets so much press; but then I looked at the stats (don't have them handy now) for other teams and league wide, and all teams have poor recordes under this scenario. I think it has more to do with different time zones and having your sleep schedule constantly thrown off, than with age alone.

This is my point. I know the Big 3 CAN play 30-35 minutes, they proved that last year. But I see that as counterproductive to have the offense so dependent on only 3 players for next season

There needs to be a spread of wealth. Theres too many cases of new players on this team feeling lost. Doc hardly draws plays for "the other guys" and the players feel out of place and are pressured to fit in or they get benched

Age has something to do with it though. the 3 are all have played 12+ seasons and theres alot of wear and tear. Just preserve them (25 mpg) and just let the younger guys get more opportunities to make a mark on this team

Or you'll get a bad record that leaves us without HCA for the important playoff series, a bench that has been exposed and over taxed by biting off too big of a role in the regular season, an angry big 3 who chaffe under minute restrictions, and a team that is lacking the chemistry of knowing what roles Doc is going to ask them to play in the playoffs.

But they'd be rested!

I don't think the Big 3 suffocate the development of other players, Perkins and Rondo developed quite nicely with them after all. I think the other players we've had just haven't been very good, especially on the offensive end.

[GreenFaith1819]

Personally I'd be very wary of ANY reduction in the Big Four's minutes, especially Ray Allens.

I think a minute or two less than last year and they'll be fine, with maybe a little more attention paid to KG?

But yeah PLEASE do not upset Ray's routine. Anything happening drastically to his minutes and we won't be seeing much more of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RciLe9SUqVM

I just think that limiting Ray Allen will put a strain on our offense. He is such a threat from deep, and opponents always have to account for him.

EDIT: Off-topic, but I loved how Glen Davis set sturdy picks on at least two of those threes by Ray.

C'mon back to us, Glen!!

[action781]

I do agree with your point about getting bench players more experience, which could be important AND will help expose them to the league in hopeful efforts to increase trade value if necessary.  I also agree that they are more eager to win the games, but don't be mistaken, our starters' talent trump our bench's hunger here.

I'd like to see the minutes all stay in the 30 mpg range.  I don't think players are going to adjust well to playing 25 mpg for 82 games, then suddenly making a jump to playing 35-40 mpg in the playoffs.  I think they will be worn out at the end of playoff games.

Instead of lowering minutes per game, what I'd like to see is us alternate completely sitting starters on certain nights of back-to-backs.  There are no back-to-backs in the playoffs, so this will have no effect on conditioning for playoffs.  Who we bench is based on each starter's health and health of their backup.