Would Rondo be better without the Big 3?

[syfy9]

Well, the Celtics did just fine in 2008 with Rondo having a lesser role.  How would they fare with their decreased abilities without him? I don't know.

It's not like Rondo is orchestrating a top 5 offense.  He's not Steve Nash who has run a top 5 offense nearly every season.  This has been a bad offense the past two seasons. They've finished 18th and 15th in offensive efficiency the last two seasons.  Rondo has it pretty good.  He gets to handle the ball all the time and is surrounded by top notch shooters at three positions.  Ray and Paul are two of the most efficient scorers in basketball and yet, the team has still only rated as an average and below-average offense.  One I say that's because they've lost a lot of three point shooting and haven't replaced it and two, because Glen Davis has taken on too large an offensive load and laid his awful numbers on this team.

When Ray and Paul are gone, it's going to be a long time before Rondo is again flanked by two guys who allow him to control the ball so much and put up plus 60 percent true shooting percentages.

Nevertheless, Rondo also orchestrates one of the league's best defenses, top 5 caliber in defensive efficiency since the 2007-2008 season. He's the play maker on not only offense, but defense as well, leading the league in steals 2 years ago. This might not be valid to some of you because it's KG who is the back bone of the Celtics D, which is true. KG makes his teammates better at defense, but Rondo does as well, but with a lesser emotion/dedication.

What if you take Rajon Rondo as is, have him drink some magical potion to bring him to full health, and place him in the Blazers or the Grizzlies or the Knicks? I think he'd bring some of that KG aura he has and make that team better defensively, and thus, cause more fast breaks while having more athletic players who can shoot and finish almost/close to as well as Ray and Paul do?

[Galeto]

Nevertheless, Rondo also orchestrates one of the league's best defenses, top 5 caliber in defensive efficiency since the 2007-2008 season. He's the play maker on not only offense, but defense as well, leading the league in steals 2 years ago. This might not be valid to some of you because it's KG who is the back bone of the Celtics D, which is true. KG makes his teammates better at defense, but Rondo does as well, but with a lesser emotion/dedication.

What if you take Rajon Rondo as is, have him drink some magical potion to bring him to full health, and place him in the Blazers or the Grizzlies or the Knicks? I think he'd bring some of that KG aura he has and make that team better defensively, and thus, cause more fast breaks while having more athletic players who can shoot and finish almost/close to as well as Ray and Paul do?

You really think it was Rondo orchestrating the defense?  I'm sorry, I have to disagree.  It was KG by a mile.  Rondo's defense wasn't even that good last season.  He didn't care about staying in front of his and allowed way too much dribble penetration.  I remember him getting torched frequently.

If he was defensively anchoring the three teams you mentioned, they would still be bad defensive teams, well not Memphis because Memphis was actually a good defensive team last season and Portland wasn't bad, only average, but the Knicks would still be a bad defensive team because they would still have no rim protectors.  Point guards don't anchor defenses. 

[Change]

Would the big three be as good without Rondo?...

What kind of question is this? Lets not overrate Rajon Rondo. He is after all playing along side top5 all time Power-foward, top5 all time Celtic, and greatest shooter of all time.

[BballTim]

Would the big three be as good without Rondo?...

What kind of question is this? Lets not overrate Rajon Rondo. He is after all playing along side top5 all time Power-foward, top5 all time Celtic, and greatest shooter of all time.

  If you think that the big three are currently playing like a top5 all time Power-foward, top5 all time Celtic, and greatest shooter of all time then you're the last person that should talk about overrating people. If you don't think that Rondo has something to do with how good the big three are then why do PP and Ray shoot so much worse when Rondo's out of the game?

[StartOrien]

Nevertheless, Rondo also orchestrates one of the league's best defenses, top 5 caliber in defensive efficiency since the 2007-2008 season. He's the play maker on not only offense, but defense as well, leading the league in steals 2 years ago.

He's definitely the defensive playmaker, butits the sound defensive skill of his teammates that allow him to be that playmaker. He takes A LOT of gambles, I don't know if he'd have the same luxuries on another team

[BballTim]

It's not like Rondo is orchestrating a top 5 offense.  He's not Steve Nash who has run a top 5 offense nearly every season.  This has been a bad offense the past two seasons. They've finished 18th and 15th in offensive efficiency the last two seasons.  Rondo has it pretty good.  He gets to handle the ball all the time and is surrounded by top notch shooters at three positions.  Ray and Paul are two of the most efficient scorers in basketball and yet, the team has still only rated as an average and below-average offense.  One I say that's because they've lost a lot of three point shooting and haven't replaced it and two, because Glen Davis has taken on too large an offensive load and laid his awful numbers on this team.

When Ray and Paul are gone, it's going to be a long time before Rondo is again flanked by two guys who allow him to control the ball so much and put up plus 60 percent true shooting percentages.

  Ray and Paul are putting up the best and second best numbers of their careers with Rondo playing, and are putting up pretty mediocre numbers when he's not.

[Change]

Would the big three be as good without Rondo?...

What kind of question is this? Lets not overrate Rajon Rondo. He is after all playing along side top5 all time Power-foward, top5 all time Celtic, and greatest shooter of all time.

  If you think that the big three are currently playing like a top5 all time Power-foward, top5 all time Celtic, and greatest shooter of all time then you're the last person that should talk about overrating people. If you don't think that Rondo has something to do with how good the big three are then why do PP and Ray shoot so much worse when Rondo's out of the game?

I actually think it hurts the team.

Its one of the main reasons the offense is stagnant. Everyone waits for Rondo to feed them. This team in my opinion is too dependent on Rondo. Rajon Rondo being dominant ball handler takes away from Big3 game. They have been relegated into jump-shooters. I blame it on the Coaches for letting it happen. Ray used to create his own shot in addition to being a great shooter. Garnett no longer works in the post. He is now a strictly Pick and Pop player. Pierce is the only of the big3 who gets the ball from time to time. There are signs however Celtics taking that away from Pierce as Rondo dominates the ball more and more. Celtics need to diversify their attack. They are too predictable right now.

[BballTim]

Would the big three be as good without Rondo?...

What kind of question is this? Lets not overrate Rajon Rondo. He is after all playing along side top5 all time Power-foward, top5 all time Celtic, and greatest shooter of all time.

  If you think that the big three are currently playing like a top5 all time Power-foward, top5 all time Celtic, and greatest shooter of all time then you're the last person that should talk about overrating people. If you don't think that Rondo has something to do with how good the big three are then why do PP and Ray shoot so much worse when Rondo's out of the game?

I actually think it hurts the team.

Its one of the main reasons the offense is stagnant. Everyone waits for Rondo to feed them. This team in my opinion is too dependent on Rondo. Rajon Rondo being dominant ball handler takes away from Big3 game. They have been relegated into jump-shooters. I blame it on the Coaches for letting it happen. Ray used to create his own shot in addition to being a great shooter. Garnett no longer works in the post. He is now a strictly Pick and Pop player. Pierce is the only of the big3 who gets the ball from time to time. There are signs however Celtics taking that away from Pierce as Rondo dominates the ball more and more. Celtics need to diversify their attack. They are too predictable right now.

  It's hard to say. I don't think that the big three are necessarily capable of expanded offensive roles at this point in their careers. Getting good shooters easy shots might just be the easiest way to extend their window of effectiveness.

[Galeto]

I actually think it hurts the team.

Its one of the main reasons the offense is stagnant. Everyone waits for Rondo to feed them. This team in my opinion is too dependent on Rondo. Rajon Rondo being dominant ball handler takes away from Big3 game. They have been relegated into jump-shooters. I blame it on the Coaches for letting it happen. Ray used to create his own shot in addition to being a great shooter. Garnett no longer works in the post. He is now a strictly Pick and Pop player. Pierce is the only of the big3 who gets the ball from time to time. There are signs however Celtics taking that away from Pierce as Rondo dominates the ball more and more. Celtics need to diversify their attack. They are too predictable right now.

I totally agree and it's not even all that fun to watch.  I like to watch a diversify attack, a little bit of Pierce taking it coast to coast, a little of bit Ray pulling up for three, which used to be a staple of his game, Ray playing pick and roll, Pierce trying to get to the basket and to the line.  There are way too many jumpshots.  I also hate when they pass BACK to Rondo after rebounds instead at least letting Ray or Pierce, if they get the ball first, to probe and see what they can get early.  Ray and Paul have each averaged more than 4 assists per season.  They're not one-dimensional scorers but a lot of the time, they're made to be. The most beautiful offense materializes in my opinion when Ray, Paul and Garnett are all involved together in a play.  The synergy, passing and shooting is outstanding.

If the Celtics are going to take a ton of jumpshots, I rather that they try to take more threes then.  A good offense can't be last in three point attempts, nearly last or last in free throw attempts and last in offensive rebounds.  I really haven't understood some of this team's principles lately.  

[Change]

I actually think it hurts the team.

Its one of the main reasons the offense is stagnant. Everyone waits for Rondo to feed them. This team in my opinion is too dependent on Rondo. Rajon Rondo being dominant ball handler takes away from Big3 game. They have been relegated into jump-shooters. I blame it on the Coaches for letting it happen. Ray used to create his own shot in addition to being a great shooter. Garnett no longer works in the post. He is now a strictly Pick and Pop player. Pierce is the only of the big3 who gets the ball from time to time. There are signs however Celtics taking that away from Pierce as Rondo dominates the ball more and more. Celtics need to diversify their attack. They are too predictable right now.

I totally agree and it's not even all that fun to watch.  I like to watch a diversify attack, a little bit of Pierce taking it coast to coast, a little of bit Ray pulling up for three, which used to be a staple of his game, Ray playing pick and roll, Pierce trying to get to the basket and to the line.  There are way too many jumpshots.  I also hate when they pass BACK to Rondo after rebounds instead at least letting Ray or Pierce, if they get the ball first, to probe and see what they can get early.  Ray and Paul have each averaged more than 4 assists per season.  They're not one-dimensional scorers but a lot of the time, they're made to be. The most beautiful offense materializes in my opinion when Ray, Paul and Garnett are all involved together in a play.  The synergy, passing and shooting is outstanding.

If the Celtics are going to take a ton of jumpshots, I rather that they try to take more threes then.  A good offense can't be last in three point attempts, nearly last or last in free throw attempts and last in offensive rebounds.  I really haven't understood some of this team's principles lately.  

Well said. With all the great players on this team the offense should not be this awful. You'd think by trading their worst offensive player (Perk) adding two scorer (Green and Krstic) would solve the problems. Nope, scoring problems worse. On a team that has three 20,000+ scorers, scoring points shouldn't be this difficult. I'm thinking its the system cause Chicago Bulls have difficulty scoring too. The difference is the Bulls don't have 3 hall of fame player in top35 scoring list all-time.

[Galeto]

Well said. With all the great players on this team the offense should not be this awful. You'd think by trading their worst offensive player (Perk) adding two scorer (Green and Krstic) would solve the problems. Nope, scoring problems worse. On a team that has three 20,000+ scorers, scoring points shouldn't be this difficult. I'm thinking its the system cause Chicago Bulls have difficulty scoring too. The difference is the Bulls don't have 3 hall of fame player in top35 scoring list all-time.

It truly is perplexing.  How can a team whose two wings both put together true shooting percentages of over 60 percent, good for 4th (Pierce) and 6th (Ray) in the league, only have a 18th ranked offense?  Then when you consider how often it was repeated why Pierce or Allen don't shoot more, I suppose it's really not all that perplexing. 

I was wrong about some of the rankings.  They were last in offensive boards but 22th in free throw attempts and 28th in three point attempts, still not very good.  They were also last in field goal attempts.  Unbelievable. 

[jdz101]

Paul pierce is fitter and a better player than melo.

[syfy9]

Paul pierce is fitter and a better player than melo.

In terms of defense and IQ, but we need to face it. Father Time just dunked on the Truth. He's older and not as fast. Meanwhile, Mr.Melo is approaching the prime of his career. Did you see that 42 point game he had in the Boston series? Almost all of his shots were going in. When was the last time Pierce put up 40 points? Melo is a better player now than Pierce, but the Truth in his prime is better than Melo in his.

[pearljammer10]

Would the big three be as good without Rondo?...

What kind of question is this? Lets not overrate Rajon Rondo. He is after all playing along side top5 all time Power-foward, top5 all time Celtic, and greatest shooter of all time.

  If you think that the big three are currently playing like a top5 all time Power-foward, top5 all time Celtic, and greatest shooter of all time then you're the last person that should talk about overrating people. If you don't think that Rondo has something to do with how good the big three are then why do PP and Ray shoot so much worse when Rondo's out of the game?

I actually think it hurts the team.

Its one of the main reasons the offense is stagnant. Everyone waits for Rondo to feed them. This team in my opinion is too dependent on Rondo. Rajon Rondo being dominant ball handler takes away from Big3 game. They have been relegated into jump-shooters. I blame it on the Coaches for letting it happen. Ray used to create his own shot in addition to being a great shooter. Garnett no longer works in the post. He is now a strictly Pick and Pop player. Pierce is the only of the big3 who gets the ball from time to time. There are signs however Celtics taking that away from Pierce as Rondo dominates the ball more and more. Celtics need to diversify their attack. They are too predictable right now.

  It's hard to say. I don't think that the big three are necessarily capable of expanded offensive roles at this point in their careers. Getting good shooters easy shots might just be the easiest way to extend their window of effectiveness.

exactly. The big three's game has become jump shots. Thats what they are good at. KG should be in the post more but he just gets knocked around, if he can get an easy set up shot from rondo, why not take it?

All the big three have said that Rondo makes the game tons easier for them. Pierce and Allen both had one of their best shooting years of their careers last year. How can you say Rondo didnt make the big three better?

[mgent]

If you're talking about replacing the Big 3 with some of best fast breakers and defenders in the league, like Igoudala, Gerald Wallace, and Josh Smith, then yeah that team would be nasty (and pretty long).

Unfortunately we probably can't get that type of talent for the Big 3 at this point in their careers.  Anything less won't be worth it, the biggest value in the Big 3 is how perfectly they fit together.