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Top ten NBA teams (All time)
« on: June 18, 2011, 12:11:17 PM »

Offline barefacedmonk

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Saw this article on sporting news about the top 10 all time nba teams. These are their rankings:

1. Chicago Bulls 1995-96

2. LA Lakers 1971-72

3. LA Lakers 1986-87

4. Boston Celtics 1985-86

5. Boston Celtics 1964-65

6. Philadelphia 76ers 1966-67

7. Philadelphia 76ers 1982-83

8. Milwaukee Bucks 1970-71

9. Chicago Bulls 1991-92

10. Detroit Pistons 1988-89


Do you agree with their ranking? What is your all time top 10 nba teams? Do you think our 2007-08 team ranks in top 10?


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Re: Top ten NBA teams (All time)
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2011, 12:56:05 PM »

Offline BballTim

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  I wouldn't rate the Bulls team that high, and that 86-87 Lakers team should really have gone back to LA down 3-2 to a Celts team struggling with injuries to key players.

Re: Top ten NBA teams (All time)
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2011, 01:53:12 PM »

Offline Boris Badenov

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Hollinger (for all that he is bashed here) has the 2008 Celtics at #10:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2011/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=Finalists1-10

His ranking omits teams from before the NBA-ABA merger, so it's a less competitive field. But both rankings share the same top 3, in the same order.

Re: Top ten NBA teams (All time)
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2011, 02:14:43 PM »

Offline OsirusCeltics

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I can never put that 95-96 Bulls number one. The league in the mid to late 90's were very watered down

1. Philadelphia 76ers - 1983
2. LA Lakers - 1985
3. Detroit Pistons - 1989
4. Boston Celtics - 1969
5. New York Knicks - 1973
6. Houston Rockets - 1995
7. LA Lakers - 2001
8. Boston Celtics - 1986
9. Chicago Bulls - 1998
10. Boston Celtics - 2008

Re: Top ten NBA teams (All time)
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2011, 02:47:25 PM »

Offline CelticsFanNC

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  I've seen every team since the mid 70's and none of them could have beaten the 1986 Celtics in a 7 game series.

  This was Larry Bird at the height of his powers and no one including Jordan was ever any better or more of a force then Bird was at that point in his career IMO.  He was a cold blooded assassin.  McHale was unstoppable on offense and a lock down defender.  Parish was at his solid but also under rated best.  DJ and Bird had a mental connection few tandems before or since have ever shared.  Walton was the NBA's best 6th man.

 It wasn't just the amazing amount of talent assembled on one team that made them awesome though.  It was how well they played together as a unit that made them so difficult to deal with.  5 players averaged 15+ ppg during those playoffs which is unheard of and evidence of how well the shared the rock.  They were almost completely unbeatable in the Boston Garden.   There were a hole lot of games that season where they seemed to be just toying with the opposition.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2011, 02:59:09 PM by CelticsFanNC »

Re: Top ten NBA teams (All time)
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2011, 03:21:24 PM »

Offline PosImpos

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96 bulls #1 and 86 celtics #2.  that's all i know enough to say for sure.
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Re: Top ten NBA teams (All time)
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2011, 03:28:53 PM »

Offline 86 Celtics

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 I've seen every team since the mid 70's and none of them could have beaten the 1986 Celtics in a 7 game series.

  This was Larry Bird at the height of his powers and no one including Jordan was ever any better or more of a force then Bird was at that point in his career IMO.  He was a cold blooded assassin.  McHale was unstoppable on offense and a lock down defender.  Parish was at his solid but also under rated best.  DJ and Bird had a mental connection few tandems before or since have ever shared.  Walton was the NBA's best 6th man.

 It wasn't just the amazing amount of talent assembled on one team that made them awesome though.  It was how well they played together as a unit that made them so difficult to deal with.  5 players averaged 15+ ppg during those playoffs which is unheard of and evidence of how well the shared the rock.  They were almost completely unbeatable in the Boston Garden.   There were a hole lot of games that season where they seemed to be just toying with the opposition.

On the money!  TP for you.
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Re: Top ten NBA teams (All time)
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2011, 05:24:29 PM »

Offline CelticsFanNC

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96 bulls #1 and 86 celtics #2.  that's all i know enough to say for sure.

  I don't believe for one minute the 96 Bull's could have handled the 86 Celtics or really any of the Laker's or Celtics teams of the 80's.  Those Bull's dominated a watered down NBA.    The 86 Celtics that season dominated in a much stronger NBA a decade earlier.

  Just look at the match ups.  The 96 Bulls couldn't possibly match up against 86 Celtics.  The Celtic's had too many weapons.

Re: Top ten NBA teams (All time)
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2011, 06:14:34 PM »

Offline BballTim

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96 bulls #1 and 86 celtics #2.  that's all i know enough to say for sure.

  I don't believe for one minute the 96 Bull's could have handled the 86 Celtics or really any of the Laker's or Celtics teams of the 80's.  Those Bull's dominated a watered down NBA.    The 86 Celtics that season dominated in a much stronger NBA a decade earlier.

  Just look at the match ups.  The 96 Bulls couldn't possibly match up against 86 Celtics.  The Celtic's had too many weapons.

  The Bulls teams were aided greatly by the fact that the three point line was moved in for those two years IIRC.

Re: Top ten NBA teams (All time)
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2011, 07:00:33 PM »

Offline mgent

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1. Boston Celtics 1964-65

2. Boston Celtics 1985-86

3. Chicago Bulls 1995-96

4. LA Lakers 1986-87

5. Boston Celtics 2007-08
Philly:

Anderson Varejao    Tiago Splitter    Matt Bonner
David West    Kenyon Martin    Brad Miller
Andre Iguodala    Josh Childress    Marquis Daniels
Dwyane Wade    Leandro Barbosa
Kirk Hinrich    Toney Douglas   + the legendary Kevin McHale

Re: Top ten NBA teams (All time)
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2011, 07:11:29 PM »

Online Moranis

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 I've seen every team since the mid 70's and none of them could have beaten the 1986 Celtics in a 7 game series.

  This was Larry Bird at the height of his powers and no one including Jordan was ever any better or more of a force then Bird was at that point in his career IMO.  He was a cold blooded assassin.  McHale was unstoppable on offense and a lock down defender.  Parish was at his solid but also under rated best.  DJ and Bird had a mental connection few tandems before or since have ever shared.  Walton was the NBA's best 6th man.

 It wasn't just the amazing amount of talent assembled on one team that made them awesome though.  It was how well they played together as a unit that made them so difficult to deal with.  5 players averaged 15+ ppg during those playoffs which is unheard of and evidence of how well the shared the rock.  They were almost completely unbeatable in the Boston Garden.   There were a hole lot of games that season where they seemed to be just toying with the opposition.
What you say about the Celtics you could absolutely say about the Bulls.  I mean you have Jordan, who most believe is the best player ever, in his prime.  A solid offensive player and an all time great defender on the wing in Pippen.  The most versatile elite defender and best rebounder ever in Rodman.  Kukoc was a great 6th man.  Harper was still a very good defender and distributor that season.  Longley and Wennington had legitimate size and were solid defenders and just got out of the way offensively.  Kerr was a deadly assasin from outside. 

That team lost 3 games in the playoffs.  Swept the Heat with Mourning and Hardaway.  Lost 1 game to the Knicks with Ewing, Oakley, Mason, Starks, etc.  Swept the Magic with Shaq, Penny, Scott and Anderson (and this was a team that was 7-1 in the playoffs up till then after a 60-22 season).  Then in the finals the Bulls did lose two to the Sonics, but they did have Payton and Kemp in their primes with Schrempf, Perkins, McMillan and Hawkins as veteran support.


That Bulls team would have been a handful for any team in history and given the end result should be deemed the best team ever after a 72-10 regular season and 15-3 post season. 
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Re: Top ten NBA teams (All time)
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2011, 07:29:16 PM »

Offline CelticsFanNC

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 I've seen every team since the mid 70's and none of them could have beaten the 1986 Celtics in a 7 game series.

  This was Larry Bird at the height of his powers and no one including Jordan was ever any better or more of a force then Bird was at that point in his career IMO.  He was a cold blooded assassin.  McHale was unstoppable on offense and a lock down defender.  Parish was at his solid but also under rated best.  DJ and Bird had a mental connection few tandems before or since have ever shared.  Walton was the NBA's best 6th man.

 It wasn't just the amazing amount of talent assembled on one team that made them awesome though.  It was how well they played together as a unit that made them so difficult to deal with.  5 players averaged 15+ ppg during those playoffs which is unheard of and evidence of how well the shared the rock.  They were almost completely unbeatable in the Boston Garden.   There were a hole lot of games that season where they seemed to be just toying with the opposition.
What you say about the Celtics you could absolutely say about the Bulls.  I mean you have Jordan, who most believe is the best player ever, in his prime.  A solid offensive player and an all time great defender on the wing in Pippen.  The most versatile elite defender and best rebounder ever in Rodman.  Kukoc was a great 6th man.  Harper was still a very good defender and distributor that season.  Longley and Wennington had legitimate size and were solid defenders and just got out of the way offensively.  Kerr was a deadly assasin from outside. 

That team lost 3 games in the playoffs.  Swept the Heat with Mourning and Hardaway.  Lost 1 game to the Knicks with Ewing, Oakley, Mason, Starks, etc.  Swept the Magic with Shaq, Penny, Scott and Anderson (and this was a team that was 7-1 in the playoffs up till then after a 60-22 season).  Then in the finals the Bulls did lose two to the Sonics, but they did have Payton and Kemp in their primes with Schrempf, Perkins, McMillan and Hawkins as veteran support.


That Bulls team would have been a handful for any team in history and given the end result should be deemed the best team ever after a 72-10 regular season and 15-3 post season. 

  This is just my opinion but Jordan is the only guy on the 96 Bull's who starts on the 86 Celtics.

 Pippen was great but better then Bird??  Not even close.

 Rodman was a truly great role player, McHale was an absolute beast on both end of the floor.  Again a rather sizable advantage to the 86 Celtics. 

  Robert Parish Parish or Luc Longley?  Dennis Johnson or John Paxson? 

  The talent advantage is squarely in favor of the 86 Celtics.

  The competition during the 80's was tougher then in the 90's.  Expansion watered down the talent base by the mid-90's and there were no other super teams competing with those Bulls'  Some good team yes, absolutely but not even close to the stacked teams at the top during the mid 80's.

  I think you have to account for the competition level.  You have to account for the talent level on each team.  You have to account for how well these teams played together.  I believe all of those things favor the 86 Celtics over the 96 Bulls.

  Again it's just my opinion.


Re: Top ten NBA teams (All time)
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2011, 08:09:27 PM »

Offline ram

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The 1986 Celtics were incredible. 4 HOF frontliners.

Russell's teams rarely get a mention in these "all time best" discussions but they had 7-8 HOFs on a number of those teams. Their reg season records are not impressive because they often played 4 games in 5 days during the reg season.

I am amused by OsirusCeltics pick of 1969 Celtics as 4th best. I saw that team and have their last game on tape. They are my favorite Celt team of all time but they were the worst championship team of the 17. They were old (and injured) and lacked depth (relied on 7 players in the playoffs).
Em Bryant, a journeyman at best (7 PPG career), had to play 33 MPG in the playoffs. THey had no backup center in the playoffs (Russell played all but 35 minutes). Havlicek played all but 14 minutes. They got it done on guts and experience.

Re: Top ten NBA teams (All time)
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2011, 08:49:21 PM »

Offline OsirusCeltics

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The 1986 Celtics were incredible. 4 HOF frontliners.

Russell's teams rarely get a mention in these "all time best" discussions but they had 7-8 HOFs on a number of those teams. Their reg season records are not impressive because they often played 4 games in 5 days during the reg season.

I am amused by OsirusCeltics pick of 1969 Celtics as 4th best. I saw that team and have their last game on tape. They are my favorite Celt team of all time but they were the worst championship team of the 17. They were old (and injured) and lacked depth (relied on 7 players in the playoffs).
Em Bryant, a journeyman at best (7 PPG career), had to play 33 MPG in the playoffs. THey had no backup center in the playoffs (Russell played all but 35 minutes). Havlicek played all but 14 minutes. They got it done on guts and experience.

LOL yeah you're right
Its just that I like the emotional aspect of that team. Battled back in every playoff round. Media thought they were too old to contend. Lakers had their own Big 3 with Wilt, West, and Baylor. Underdog in the Finals but Russell proved the doubters wrong, and retired with a ring

Re: Top ten NBA teams (All time)
« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2011, 09:21:12 PM »

Offline kmcrawfo

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 I've seen every team since the mid 70's and none of them could have beaten the 1986 Celtics in a 7 game series.

  This was Larry Bird at the height of his powers and no one including Jordan was ever any better or more of a force then Bird was at that point in his career IMO.  He was a cold blooded assassin.  McHale was unstoppable on offense and a lock down defender.  Parish was at his solid but also under rated best.  DJ and Bird had a mental connection few tandems before or since have ever shared.  Walton was the NBA's best 6th man.

 It wasn't just the amazing amount of talent assembled on one team that made them awesome though.  It was how well they played together as a unit that made them so difficult to deal with.  5 players averaged 15+ ppg during those playoffs which is unheard of and evidence of how well the shared the rock.  They were almost completely unbeatable in the Boston Garden.   There were a hole lot of games that season where they seemed to be just toying with the opposition.
What you say about the Celtics you could absolutely say about the Bulls.  I mean you have Jordan, who most believe is the best player ever, in his prime.  A solid offensive player and an all time great defender on the wing in Pippen.  The most versatile elite defender and best rebounder ever in Rodman.  Kukoc was a great 6th man.  Harper was still a very good defender and distributor that season.  Longley and Wennington had legitimate size and were solid defenders and just got out of the way offensively.  Kerr was a deadly assasin from outside. 

That team lost 3 games in the playoffs.  Swept the Heat with Mourning and Hardaway.  Lost 1 game to the Knicks with Ewing, Oakley, Mason, Starks, etc.  Swept the Magic with Shaq, Penny, Scott and Anderson (and this was a team that was 7-1 in the playoffs up till then after a 60-22 season).  Then in the finals the Bulls did lose two to the Sonics, but they did have Payton and Kemp in their primes with Schrempf, Perkins, McMillan and Hawkins as veteran support.


That Bulls team would have been a handful for any team in history and given the end result should be deemed the best team ever after a 72-10 regular season and 15-3 post season. 

1985-86 Boston Celtics vs. 1995-96 Chicago Bulls

In Favor of the Bulls:

Bulls Bio:

    Players who have won Playoff MVP award: 1 (Jordan)
    Players on "50 Greatest" list: 2 (Jordan, Pippen)
    Players who have made All Star Team during their career: 3 (Jordan, Pippen, Rodman)
    Players who have made the All-Star team within 3 years of the team's great season: 3 (Jordan, Pippen, Rodman)

    In Jordan and Pippen the Bulls have a strong speed advantage at shooting guard and small forward.  The Celtics only defeats in the 1986 playoffs came at the hands of the Atlanta Hawks (gm 4, East semifinals) & Houston Rockets (gms 3 & 5, NBA Finals), both of those teams possessed big, young and athletic front lines.  Jordan & Pippen certainly come close to that type of athleticism but replace the youth with veteran savvy and top notch defensive skills.

In Favor of the Celtics:

Celtics Bio:

    Players who have won Playoff MVP award: 3 (Bird, Johnson, Walton)
    Players on "50 Greatest" list: 4 (Bird, Parish, McHale, Walton)
    Players who have made All Star Team during career: 7 (Ainge, Bird, Johnson, McHale, Parish, Walton, Wedman)
    Players who have made the All-Star team within 3 years of the team's great season: 5 (Bird, McHale, Parish, Johnson, Ainge)

These Celtics boast quite possibly the greatest front line in NBA History: Larry Bird, Kevin McHale and Robert Parish with Bill Walton and Scott Wedman off the bench give this squad inside scoring firepower, solid interior defense, a great passing game as well as potent outside shooting.  Kevin McHale is a serious match up problem for every player he faces, his long arms allow him to shoot over the top of defenders in the post as well as being able to hit the open 20 footers. Walton and Bird are both great passers who will get the ball to either the open man or the mismatch inside.  Dennis Johnson and Danny Ainge in the backcourt were great at hitting the open shot when the post is double teamed as well as providing solid perimeter defense.  The Celtics are solid to strong on all of the weapons needed to defeat the Bulls.

SYNOPSIS

There is one question here: Can Jordan go off for 55 points per game with Dennis Johnson in his shirt to counter the huge scoring edge the Celtics have in the paint?  He has to if the Bulls are going to beat the Celtics.  Pippen should be able to match Bird on the scoreboard & bother him on D but Pippen won't stop Bird overall.  Bird can get his shot off as well as pass into the post where McHale & Parish can score over Rodman & Longley, plus McHale can hit the open 20 footers that Rodman will give him when he sits under the basket waiting for rebounds.  The Bulls also have no match for the energy and fire that Bill Walton brings in off the Celtic bench, especially since Walton, McHale & Parish will have to extend themselves very little in one-on -one low post defense.  When the Bulls guards are forced to double team the post Danny Ainge & Dennis Johnson will hit their share of the open shots. Ainge shot .386 from 3 point range in 1985-86.  Scott Wedman & Jerry Sichting are a perfect outside shooting counter to the Bulls duo of Toni Kucoc and Steve Kerr off the bench.  One final fact that is overlooked: In the 1986 playoff game after Jordan lit the Celtics up for 63 points the Celtics stuffed Dennis Johnson & some prudent double teams down MJ's shirt and held him to 28 points as they routed the Bulls in game 3, eliminating them from the playoffs.  People also forget that Jordan poured in 50 in game 1 and the Celtics still won easily by 18 points.  The 1996 Bulls are way better than their 1986 counterparts, but they have the same glaring weaknesses. The answer to the question above is NO, Jordan averages 40 to 45 points a game in this match up but the Bulls lose anyway because they get out gunned in the paint.