Ray Allen says he's willing to come off the bench

[CelticsFanNC]

   While I appreciate that Ray is such a great team guy who is willing to do this, he's not the best option of the Big Three to come off of the bench.   He is a rhythm shooter who benefits from early shots in both halves and he isn't great at creating shots for himself or others.  He depends more then anyone else in our starting line up on Rondo to get him his shots where he likes them.

  Also who starts at the shooting guard spot if Ray doesn't?  A lot of people have thrown around Paul Pierce's name to switch to the 2 spot.  I don't see that working at all.  Pierce is an above average defender at the 3 spot but I'm afraid he'd be well below average at the 2 spot against starting caliber shooting guards.  You can ask Pierce to do it in spurts but for 30+ minutes per game?? That would negatively effect our defense at both wings spots and in today's NBA that is a recipe for disaster. It would also effect Pierce negatively on offense due to expending so much energy chasing around guys who are younger, quicker and faster then he is.

  Pierce is the better option to come off of the bench if Doc chooses to go this route.

[GreenEnvy]

I think it is an idea that was thrown out there by DA that will never come to fruition.

But if it did, of course it won't be KG. Out of Ray and Paul, the logical choice would be Pierce because he can operate on his own and someone like Delonte may actually benefit him more than Rondo. He doesn't need the precise pass at the perfect time like KG and Ray need.

I just can't see us going into the playoffs with Pierce on the bench. I wouldn't want to see Carmelo or LeBron in double digits before we put our best wing defender on them.

I'll believe it when I see it, but this is not surprising coming from Ray. He's the ultimate class act.

[thirstyboots18]

Just because someone comes "off the bench" does not necessarily mean they won't get their minutes, or finish the game.  If PP comes off the bench his minutes will be easier to manage, but won't diminish that much, IMO.  And I think he would be a boon bench scoring, defense, and management (on court coaching).

[Inside-Out]

I don't understand why some would bring Paul off the bench instead of Ray if the reason is that Paul is a better defender and is better at creating offense.  I always thought the better players started.

Red put a twist on that by bringing a vet off the bench and starting a rookie, who would blend with the starters, then the vet becomes the potent 6th man, but still... 

Wouldn't Ray be more effective against bench players?

Wouldn't Ray be able to find his rhythm in 20 minutes off the bench if those minutes were in long stretches, like the end of 1st/most of 2nd quarter?  If Ray can shoot in his sleep, wouldn't he probably be okay doing it off the bench?

And what about the size/strength advantage of Paul at the 2?

[OsirusCeltics]

My idea:
-Bench Ray, Paul, and Kevin for the season. Would make the Celtics bench so potent
-Let the the Big 3 finish games

-But when the playoffs start, play the Big 3 more minutes

The Big 3 were productive last season, but we shouldn't bank on that. They are getting older, and Celtics should preserve them for the post season

[Bahku]

Sorry, but you don't have your core three players - your superstars - coming off the bench. It's not going to happen ... it makes no sense strategically or chemistry-wise. Doc would never agree to this ... I don't know why it keeps coming up.

[Chief]

Sorry, but you don't have your core three players - your superstars - coming off the bench. It's not going to happen ... it makes no sense strategically or chemistry-wise. Doc would never agree to this ... I don't know why it keeps coming up.

Dallas does.And I don't want to hear that, right now, Ray Allen is better than Jason Terry; because he is not. Terry is a super 6th man with ice water in his veins. Ray could be the same thing for the Celtics. Doc would do good, to take a few pointers from Rick Carlisle. Dallas has the model to beat the Heat. Doc needs to steal the plan.

[Bahku]

Sorry, but you don't have your core three players - your superstars - coming off the bench. It's not going to happen ... it makes no sense strategically or chemistry-wise. Doc would never agree to this ... I don't know why it keeps coming up.

Dallas does.And I don't want to hear that, right now, Ray Allen is better than Jason Terry; because he is not. Terry is a super 6th man with ice water in his veins. Ray could be the same thing for the Celtics. Doc would do good, to take a few pointers from Rick Carlisle. Dallas has the model to beat the Heat. Doc needs to steal the plan.

They also have someone equal to/better in their starting lineup, (so they can afford to have a guy like JT off the bench), we don't. If you want to decrease his minutes, you can do it without changing the starting five ... I don't see any advantage of having Ray come off the bench, unless there's a better alternative to start ... right now there isn't, and it's all just speculation.

[Who]

Jason Terry is best used as a combo guard off the bench because of his deficient defense + rebounding. Getting him more minutes against lesser opposition helps hide those flaws plus it gets him more shot attempts.

Ray Allen, at his advanced age + lesser shot-creation ability (off the dribble / more reliant on others) + superior defense and rebounding, is best used as a starter and alongside a top playmaker like Rajon Rondo.

The two players have very different skill-sets and should be used accordingly.

[Chief]

Sorry, but you don't have your core three players - your superstars - coming off the bench. It's not going to happen ... it makes no sense strategically or chemistry-wise. Doc would never agree to this ... I don't know why it keeps coming up.

Dallas does.And I don't want to hear that, right now, Ray Allen is better than Jason Terry; because he is not. Terry is a super 6th man with ice water in his veins. Ray could be the same thing for the Celtics. Doc would do good, to take a few pointers from Rick Carlisle. Dallas has the model to beat the Heat. Doc needs to steal the plan.

They also have someone equal to/better in their starting lineup, (so they can afford to have a guy like JT off the bench), we don't. If you want to decrease his minutes, you can do it without changing the starting five ... I don't see any advantage of having Ray come off the bench, unless there's a better alternative to start ... right now there isn't, and it's all just speculation.

So you think Deshawn Stevenson is better than Jeff Green or Jason Terry. It was not until game three of the NBA finals where Barea finally got the start.

Jason Terry is best used as a combo guard off the bench because of his deficient defense + rebounding. Getting him more minutes against lesser opposition helps hide those flaws plus it gets him more shot attempts.

Ray Allen, at his advanced age + lesser shot-creation ability (off the dribble / more reliant on others) + superior defense and rebounding, is best used as a starter and alongside a top playmaker like Rajon Rondo.

The two players have very different skill-sets and should be used accordingly.

Carlisle was not trying to hide Jason Tery's deficiencies. If so, he'd get no minutes in the 4th. It's about having a scoring punch off the bench. Ray would be perfect for it.

[Who]

A one dimensional scorer who is a liability in terms of defense and rebounding is best used as a bench player.

The player's limitations are harder to take advantage of + his strength, as a scorer, is maximized because he can be the main go-to option instead of the 2nd or 3rd option for an additional period of the time. Creating better balance for the team as a whole -- more effective / balanced lineups in terms of scoring and offensive cohesiveness -- + allowing the player to get himself in better rhythm to supply support for the top scorer down the stretch of games by pitting him against weaker defenders and the larger role (main scorer vs 2nd/3rd option).

The reason Carlisle started DeShawn Stevenson was because Dallas' defense was much better with him in the starting lineup. Their individual defense at the SG spot was far superior + their team defense due the added size and length in the backcourt by having Kidd alongside a player with solid size and athleticism at the SG spot. 

[OsirusCeltics]

A one dimensional scorer who is a liability in terms of defense and rebounding is best used as a bench player.

The player's limitations are harder to take advantage of + his strength, as a scorer, is maximized because he can be the main go-to option instead of the 2nd or 3rd option for an additional period of the time. Creating better balance for the team as a whole -- more effective / balanced lineups in terms of scoring and offensive cohesiveness -- + allowing the player to get himself in better rhythm to supply support for the top scorer down the stretch of games by pitting him against weaker defenders and the larger role (main scorer vs 2nd/3rd option).

The reason Carlisle started DeShawn Stevenson was because Dallas' defense was much better with him in the starting lineup. Their individual defense at the SG spot was far superior + their team defense due the added size and length in the backcourt by having Kidd alongside a player with solid size and athleticism at the SG spot. 

If Carlisle started Stevenson instead of Terry because of his defense, then why does he play Terry for the whole 4th quarter, which defense matters most?

[Who]

A one dimensional scorer who is a liability in terms of defense and rebounding is best used as a bench player.

The player's limitations are harder to take advantage of + his strength, as a scorer, is maximized because he can be the main go-to option instead of the 2nd or 3rd option for an additional period of the time. Creating better balance for the team as a whole -- more effective / balanced lineups in terms of scoring and offensive cohesiveness -- + allowing the player to get himself in better rhythm to supply support for the top scorer down the stretch of games by pitting him against weaker defenders and the larger role (main scorer vs 2nd/3rd option).

The reason Carlisle started DeShawn Stevenson was because Dallas' defense was much better with him in the starting lineup. Their individual defense at the SG spot was far superior + their team defense due the added size and length in the backcourt by having Kidd alongside a player with solid size and athleticism at the SG spot. 

If Carlisle started Stevenson instead of Terry because of his defense, then why does he play Terry for the whole 4th quarter, which defense matters most?

Obviously what I am trying to say ... I am not communicating well and it's not being understood.

And I can't think of another way to say it.

Edit: You want to limit your player's exposure to difficult situations. Not eliminate it totally but limit it.

You do that best by bringing your one dimensional scorer off the bench and getting him a chunk of his playing time in the second unit and against fellow bench players where his offensive talents are even more difficult to contain + his poor defense and rebounding are easier to hide.

Not all of his minutes but a significant chunk of his minutes. Against bench players and in the second unit. With the remainder of his minutes coming alongside the starters.

You do that to get him his 30 or so minutes a night to best take advantage of both his scoring skills and to limit the negatives of his limitations defensively and on the backboards.

---------------------------------------------

You start a guy like DeShawn Stevenson or a Dahntay Jones type (Keith Bogans in Chicago) because they help establish a defensive mindset and identity to begin games. With the hope that that defensive mindset carries over, continues on, throughout the contest.

Their relative value there as a part time starter, in 16-20mpg, is greater than it is as backup SG.

It helps form a collective identity. Character. Personality of a team. A toughness.

---------------------------------------------

If that makes any more sense than my first attempt at explaining what I was trying to say.

[OsirusCeltics]

A one dimensional scorer who is a liability in terms of defense and rebounding is best used as a bench player.

The player's limitations are harder to take advantage of + his strength, as a scorer, is maximized because he can be the main go-to option instead of the 2nd or 3rd option for an additional period of the time. Creating better balance for the team as a whole -- more effective / balanced lineups in terms of scoring and offensive cohesiveness -- + allowing the player to get himself in better rhythm to supply support for the top scorer down the stretch of games by pitting him against weaker defenders and the larger role (main scorer vs 2nd/3rd option).

The reason Carlisle started DeShawn Stevenson was because Dallas' defense was much better with him in the starting lineup. Their individual defense at the SG spot was far superior + their team defense due the added size and length in the backcourt by having Kidd alongside a player with solid size and athleticism at the SG spot. 

If Carlisle started Stevenson instead of Terry because of his defense, then why does he play Terry for the whole 4th quarter, which defense matters most?

Obviously what I am trying to say ... I am not communicating well and it's not being understood.

And I can't think of another way to say it.

Edit: You want to limit your player's exposure to difficult situations. Not eliminate it totally but limit it.

You do that best by bringing your one dimensional scorer off the bench and getting him a chunk of his playing time in the second unit and against fellow bench players where his offensive talents are even more difficult to contain + his poor defense and rebounding are easier to hide.

Not all of his minutes but a significant chunk of his minutes. Against bench players and in the second unit. With the remainder of his minutes coming alongside the starters.

You do that to get him his 30 or so minutes a night to best take advantage of both his scoring skills and to limit the negatives of his limitations defensively and on the backboards.

---------------------------------------------

You start a guy like DeShawn Stevenson or a Dahntay Jones type (Keith Bogans in Chicago) because they help establish a defensive mindset and identity to begin games. With the hope that that defensive mindset carries over, continues on, throughout the contest.

Their relative value there as a part time starter, in 16-20mpg, is greater than it is as backup SG.

It helps form a collective identity. Character. Personality of a team. A toughness.

---------------------------------------------

If that makes any more sense than my first attempt at explaining what I was trying to say.

Yeah, I understand now. You're right
The start of the game is just as important as the finish