50 Greatest NBA Players of All Time

[nickagneta]

I think Finals MVP and NBA MVP are important awards that need to be recognized. From the mid 60's to the early 90's, they got almost all of those years right on. Recently with the advent of mass media and ESPN, I think they make more mistakes. Still, there isn't an MVP that isn't in the Hall if they are eligible and for good reason. I value the Finals MVP so much because those are guys that came up big when you had to and those guys tend to be the best players.

1st team All-NBA and 1st team All-Defense tend to be popularity contests except for the very multiple time winners(Rodman, Garnett, Pippen, Cooper, Moncrief, Mutombo, etc on defense Duncan, Kobe, Shaq, Jordan etc for All-NBA).

Strictly stats stuff tends to put guys like Dantley, Gervin, English, Thompson Iverson and such higher than they deserve because they played selfish ball and were lesser players because of that.

Maybe instead keep the awards points but give bonus points for finishing top 3 in each category as well as bonuses for finishing in top 10 in 3 or more categories more bonus for finishing top 10 in 5 or more categories for each year. Then more complete players become more highly ranked.

[Eja117]

Yes. Robery Horry is better than Lebron.

haha

ITS THE ONLY ARGUMENT I NEED, SHAWN!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_wnAUWpoJA

exactly.

[PosImpos]

Waaaiitttt a second.   6th man is worth twice as much as All Nba 1rst team?  That kind of favors not as good players over the best, right?

I mean how many times did MJ win 6th man?

Also the list obviously favors longevity, which is probably a good thing.


Kevin McHale isn't on the list, but a lot of others are.

Give me rings.  It's the only stat that matters.  Yes. Robery Horry is better than Lebron.

Meh, Adam Morrison is not better than LeBron.  And yes, the list favors longevity -- a body of work as opposed to one or two years of greatness (sorry, Tracy McGrady).


Sixth man of the year is a legitimate award.  It doesn't heavily factor into the rankings anyway, though, since most players who win sixth men aren't all time greats, as you noted (although McHale is on the list and he does benefit from it).

I didn't want to value All-NBA 1st team too strongly since some players were on it numerous times.  I think 5 points is fine for that.  Same for championships.


IP, I agree that valuing things like "top 2 scorer on a championship team" would be very useful, but alas it would also be a lot more work than I'm willing to put in.  It was enough to assemble the list as is. 

Also, I think the primary stats have been weighted enough.  While MVP and DPOY are somewhat arbitrary awards, I still think they have a lot of meaning.  Any player that was considered the greatest player in the league by the majority of (at least somewhat) learned people covering the sport for a season, they should at least be in the running for one of the top players to ever play the sport.  The same can be said of defensive player of the year.

[indeedproceed]

IP, I agree that valuing things like "top 2 scorer on a championship team" would be very useful, but alas it would also be a lot more work than I'm willing to put in.  It was enough to assemble the list as is. 

As a person who has spent an hour trying to figure out who was better between 2 guys on a per-36 basis in head to head competition using only basketball-reference.com as a source, yeah man..there is a definite line.

[PosImpos]

Would it be possible to also factor in runners-up for the MVP, DPOY and All-NBA teams?  I'd be interested to see how the list looked after that adjustment.  

One of the stats I factored in was "MVP award shares."  That's MVP award runners up.  There were no recorded stats for "DPOY award shares" or "Finals MVP award shares," or else I might have factored those in as well.

Does Dwight Howard really deserve to be 30th when he's only been relevant for three or four years?  I like Big Ben and Dikembe on the list, but not in the top 25.  

See what I've already said to justify the high placement of Dwight, Big Ben, and Dikembe.  They might be a bit high right now, though, I will admit.

Reggie but no Ray?  LeBron at 24 but no Wade?  I'm also not fond of Kareem at #2, but for whatever reason I can't explain why, so I'll drop that one.

Reggie has done a lot more than Ray in a number of categories.  Ray has been a great scorer and 3 point shooter in his career, but Reggie played in the playoffs more and led his team to more wins over the course of his career.  I was kind of surprised by this as well, so I don't blame you for being a little surprised.

LeBron has similarly done more in his career in terms of a variety of categories than Dwyane Wade.  He's also won the MVP award twice.  If Wade had won the MVP award when he deserved to (in '08, for instance), he would be on the list for sure, since he was almost on the list without having won MVP.  My guess is Wade will work his way well into the Top 50 before his career is done.

Kareem is as high as he is mainly because he was a great, productive player for an obscenely long time.  That doesn't mean he doesn't deserve to be rated that high, though.  There is certainly something to be said for longevity.

Maybe instead keep the awards points but give bonus points for finishing top 3 in each category as well as bonuses for finishing in top 10 in 3 or more categories more bonus for finishing top 10 in 5 or more categories for each year. Then more complete players become more highly ranked.

That's a very intriguing idea but that's another one that would take a great deal of extra work.  Maybe at some point, but not something I will consider right now.  I think the list will look just about right if I make the award point adjustments you suggested.

[Roy H.]

Mark Eaton > Kevin McHale (and a bunch of other guys)

DPOY might be a tad overrated (especially since it wasn't even an award until the 1980s)

[Eja117]

Waaaiitttt a second.   6th man is worth twice as much as All Nba 1rst team?  That kind of favors not as good players over the best, right?

I mean how many times did MJ win 6th man?

Also the list obviously favors longevity, which is probably a good thing.


Kevin McHale isn't on the list, but a lot of others are.

Give me rings.  It's the only stat that matters.  Yes. Robery Horry is better than Lebron.

Meh, Adam Morrison is not better than LeBron.  And yes, the list favors longevity -- a body of work as opposed to one or two years of greatness (sorry, Tracy McGrady).


Sixth man of the year is a legitimate award.  It doesn't heavily factor into the rankings anyway, though, since most players who win sixth men aren't all time greats, as you noted (although McHale is on the list and he does benefit from it).

I didn't want to value All-NBA 1st team too strongly since some players were on it numerous times.  I think 5 points is fine for that.  Same for championships.


IP, I agree that valuing things like "top 2 scorer on a championship team" would be very useful, but alas it would also be a lot more work than I'm willing to put in.  It was enough to assemble the list as is. 

Also, I think the primary stats have been weighted enough.  While MVP and DPOY are somewhat arbitrary awards, I still think they have a lot of meaning.  Any player that was considered the greatest player in the league by the majority of (at least somewhat) learned people covering the sport for a season, they should at least be in the running for one of the top players to ever play the sport.  The same can be said of defensive player of the year.

I saw McHale and edited, but not fast enough.  You win that round.

I'm not sure I'm seeing your logic of not awarding much for 1rst team because some people were on it multiple times. Some people won multiple rings and multiple mvps too.  Wouldn't that favor a guy.

I'd think maybe one would gibe 10 points for 1rst team and 7 or 8 or 9 for 2nd team and something for 3rd.  That might have given a few more points to Paul Pierce.

Also there were no points for all-stars.   So somewhat as a result you've got Dennis Johnson over Ray Allen who isn't on the list.

Also Reggie over Ray Allen puzzles me somewhat.

Chris Paul isn't in there. But Bron and D Howard is. Also D Wade isn't in there but Bron is.

Interesting list

[PosImpos]

Mark Eaton > Kevin McHale (and a bunch of other guys)

DPOY might be a tad overrated.

Yeah, as others have noted.  Mark Eaton is also way up there in a bunch of other categories, though -- mostly associated with blocks. 

I was surprised by how low Kevin McHale was on the list, but the fact is he doesn't rate very highly in many categories, which is probably because was the 2nd best player on his team for most of his career (the drawback of playing next to Larry, I guess).  Scottie Pippen has a similar issue.

[PosImpos]

Also there were no points for all-stars.   So somewhat as a result you've got Dennis Johnson over Ray Allen who isn't on the list.

All-Star is a total popularity contest and not something I considered factoring even for a second.

Allen Iverson and Tracy McGrady were All-Stars last year.  Yao Ming has been an All-Star every single year that he has been eligible. 

'Nuff said.

[nickagneta]

Waaaiitttt a second.   6th man is worth twice as much as All Nba 1rst team?  That kind of favors not as good players over the best, right?

I mean how many times did MJ win 6th man?

Also the list obviously favors longevity, which is probably a good thing.


Kevin McHale isn't on the list, but a lot of others are.

Give me rings.  It's the only stat that matters.  Yes. Robery Horry is better than Lebron.

Meh, Adam Morrison is not better than LeBron.  And yes, the list favors longevity -- a body of work as opposed to one or two years of greatness (sorry, Tracy McGrady).


Sixth man of the year is a legitimate award.  It doesn't heavily factor into the rankings anyway, though, since most players who win sixth men aren't all time greats, as you noted (although McHale is on the list and he does benefit from it).

I didn't want to value All-NBA 1st team too strongly since some players were on it numerous times.  I think 5 points is fine for that.  Same for championships.


IP, I agree that valuing things like "top 2 scorer on a championship team" would be very useful, but alas it would also be a lot more work than I'm willing to put in.  It was enough to assemble the list as is. 

Also, I think the primary stats have been weighted enough.  While MVP and DPOY are somewhat arbitrary awards, I still think they have a lot of meaning.  Any player that was considered the greatest player in the league by the majority of (at least somewhat) learned people covering the sport for a season, they should at least be in the running for one of the top players to ever play the sport.  The same can be said of defensive player of the year.

I saw McHale and edited, but not fast enough.  You win that round.

I'm not sure I'm seeing your logic of not awarding much for 1rst team because some people were on it multiple times. Some people won multiple rings and multiple mvps too.  Wouldn't that favor a guy.

I'd think maybe one would gibe 10 points for 1rst team and 7 or 8 or 9 for 2nd team and something for 3rd.  That might have given a few more points to Paul Pierce.

Also there were no points for all-stars.   So somewhat as a result you've got Dennis Johnson over Ray Allen who isn't on the list.

Also Reggie over Ray Allen puzzles me somewhat.

Chris Paul isn't in there. But Bron and D Howard is. Also D Wade isn't in there but Bron is.

Interesting list

I would take DJ over ray Allen every day of the week. Did you see him when not in a Celtic uni? Truly unreal player. Then add what he did as a Celtic? Except for three point shooting I think DJ a better player in every respect.

[Eja117]

Kendrick Perkins needs to be top 15.

Also I just got a call from Danny Ainge. He's ticked Avery Bradley isn't top 5.

[Eja117]

Also there were no points for all-stars.   So somewhat as a result you've got Dennis Johnson over Ray Allen who isn't on the list.

All-Star is a total popularity contest and not something I considered factoring even for a second.

Allen Iverson and Tracy McGrady were All-Stars last year.  Yao Ming has been an All-Star every single year that he has been eligible. 

'Nuff said.

Well when you put it that way. 

But MVPs and Finals MVPs and All NBA are popularity contests too.

That's kinda why I like rings. You gotta earn em. 

[CelticsPrideKG]

Don't really agree with Malone, Nash, Mutumbo, Barkley, and a few others being placed ahead of Garnett - but pretty nice list.

[CelticsPrideKG]

Wait . . . Ben Wallace ahead of KG.

Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline.? Am I missing something?  I realize he was a great defender in his prime - but seriously, Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline.?

[PosImpos]

Don't really agree with Malone, Nash, Mutumbo, Barkley, and a few others being placed ahead of Garnett - but pretty nice list.

I would have liked to place KG higher, but the stats simply didn't bear that out.  He only won MVP once, he's only got one ring, and he isn't at the tops in nearly any statistical categories.  This list wasn't created with subjective opinions about how great a player was in his prime, or else KG would be higher.