One more win to prove all the Miami doubters right?

[csfansince60s]

In Dirk We Trust.

+1....and hope you have 80 TPs soon!!!

[MBunge]

I'd say the Heat experiment has been a success to date. 

I'm not trying to argue the Heat haven't been a success.  That would be silly.

The point I'm trying to make is that from before the season even started, some folks (like me) looked at this Miami team and saw flaws in it.  When we tried to point out those flaws, the common response was essentially "LeBron and Wade are so great that nothing else matters".

My fairly self-centered point is that while LeBron and Wade are great enough that they might get Miami a title this season, they're greatness has NOT been enough to simply overwhelm or eliminate the flaws in the Heat.

How many think that this Heat team, as currently constructed, is in great shape to win 3 or 4 titles over the next 4 or 5 years?  I don't, because I think the regular season and playoffs have shown that this team's margin for error is not that big.  They clearly need to improve their bigs and they just as clearly need to address offensive droughts that are rather inexplicable for a team that has two players who can drop 40 points on any given night and a third guy who's a career 20 point a game scorer.

Mike

[CelticG1]

As much as I'd love to agree with you I'm gonna have to do the opposite. Miami made it to the finals in their first year together, and despite their team's construction spitting in the face of a traditional 5 man unit, they have managed to beat teams like Chicago and Boston that have that structure.

They did this on raw talent at three positions and fillers. Imagine what Miami could be capable of with a couple of consistent role players and a coach with a clue.

Well said.

-sw

Perhaps, "well said", granted, however, while Chi and the Cs may have had the structure of a more "balanced" team, the Cs were spent and not very deep or effective due to injuries (esp. Rondo)and the lack of cohesiveness that introducing 5 new players into a sophisticated defensive and offensive system creates.

The Heat were a very bad matchup for the Bulls, obviously especially at the 2 and 3. Call the 4 a wash and the 5 also, because Anthony was just the type of athletic, energetic but otherwise weakly skilled center who could neutralize Noah.

 Add James' athleticism helping to neutralize D. Rose in both assists and scoring and the terrible lack of quality depth of this Chi team is exposed, and that's an easy (I know this is in retrospect)path for the Heat.

Yeah I don't really see what's so special about the Heat are doing either. They were expected to make it to the finals if not win it-that's what they did. The Celtics just 3 years ago had 3 stars come together and in their first year made it the finals and won.

I just don't really see it being that special that the 2 best players in the league along with another all-star have done what they've done. Lot more impresses with Lebron and the Cavs in 07.

Also as far as having a balanced team thats what you get when you have 3 max contracts. I'd rather have 3 studs with fillers than a more balanced team. Not to mention it's not like they didn't have a ton of vets and other players willing to come for less money and less of a role: Miller, Bibby, Haslem, Dampier.

[Fafnir]

My fairly self-centered point is that while LeBron and Wade are great enough that they might get Miami a title this season, they're greatness has NOT been enough to simply overwhelm or eliminate the flaws in the Heat.

So this entire thread is a big attaboy because you predicted that two ball dominant wing players would not mesh seemlessly?

I guess if you're still calling the Heat successful I'm not sure what the "doubters" were right about.

[Fafnir]

As others have said MIA is 2 wins away from the title, and at the very least will be the 2nd best team this year.  If the Heat were eliminiated in the first round or got waxed in the second round you might have something.  Also with key role players Miller and Haslem missing significant time this year, the team is only going to get better if those guys can return healthy

  So the Heat were a Wade takedown on Rondo away from proving all their doubters right?

Eh...  As much as we all hate to admit it, we were down 0-2 with a healthy Rondo.

  True, but we'd have been 2-2 with a healthy Rondo and more likely than not up 3-2. Two wins didn't assure the Heat the series any more than they're assured of beating the Mavs.

Saying that you would have "more likely" won 3 straight games against a team that had just beat you twice in a row seems a little unrealistic.  Especially when the variable expected to yield those 3 straight wins, is the healthy of a player who was healthy during the loses =/

Yeah I wouldn't assume a game 5 win, but I am confident that with a healthy Rondo we'd have been able to close out game 4 properly.

[Steve Weinman]

As much as I'd love to agree with you I'm gonna have to do the opposite. Miami made it to the finals in their first year together, and despite their team's construction spitting in the face of a traditional 5 man unit, they have managed to beat teams like Chicago and Boston that have that structure.

They did this on raw talent at three positions and fillers. Imagine what Miami could be capable of with a couple of consistent role players and a coach with a clue.

Well said.

-sw

Perhaps, "well said", granted, however, while Chi and the Cs may have had the structure of a more "balanced" team, the Cs were spent and not very deep or effective due to injuries (esp. Rondo)and the lack of cohesiveness that introducing 5 new players into a sophisticated defensive and offensive system creates.

The Heat were a very bad matchup for the Bulls, obviously especially at the 2 and 3. Call the 4 a wash and the 5 also, because Anthony was just the type of athletic, energetic but otherwise weakly skilled center who could neutralize Noah.

 Add James' athleticism helping to neutralize D. Rose in both assists and scoring and the terrible lack of quality depth of this Chi team is exposed, and that's an easy (I know this is in retrospect)path for the Heat.

So the fact that the Heat matched up well with the team that had the best record in basketball this season is a demerit to them?

Given your assertion of this as an easy path, I ask the following not meaning to be facetious: Who would you have rather seen Miami play en route to the Finals?

-sw

[BballTim]

As others have said MIA is 2 wins away from the title, and at the very least will be the 2nd best team this year.  If the Heat were eliminiated in the first round or got waxed in the second round you might have something.  Also with key role players Miller and Haslem missing significant time this year, the team is only going to get better if those guys can return healthy

  So the Heat were a Wade takedown on Rondo away from proving all their doubters right?

Eh...  As much as we all hate to admit it, we were down 0-2 with a healthy Rondo.

  True, but we'd have been 2-2 with a healthy Rondo and more likely than not up 3-2. Two wins didn't assure the Heat the series any more than they're assured of beating the Mavs.

Saying that you would have "more likely" won 3 straight games against a team that had just beat you twice in a row seems a little unrealistic.  Especially when the variable expected to yield those 3 straight wins, is the healthy of a player who was healthy during the loses =/

  Yes, things like that never happen. Just ask the Mavs.

 

[MBunge]

I guess if you're still calling the Heat successful I'm not sure what the "doubters" were right about.

Oh, little things like how getting a better PG and a better center was more important than tying up all your available cap space on a back up wing, a back up and undersized power forward and Joel Anthony.  Or maybe about how LeBron and Wade, while very good passers for their positions, do not have the skill set to run teams like point guards.  You know, stuff like that.

Mike

[Roy H.]

I'd say the Heat experiment has been a success to date. 

I'm not trying to argue the Heat haven't been a success.  That would be silly.

The point I'm trying to make is that from before the season even started, some folks (like me) looked at this Miami team and saw flaws in it.  When we tried to point out those flaws, the common response was essentially "LeBron and Wade are so great that nothing else matters".

My fairly self-centered point is that while LeBron and Wade are great enough that they might get Miami a title this season, they're greatness has NOT been enough to simply overwhelm or eliminate the flaws in the Heat.

How many think that this Heat team, as currently constructed, is in great shape to win 3 or 4 titles over the next 4 or 5 years?  I don't, because I think the regular season and playoffs have shown that this team's margin for error is not that big.  They clearly need to improve their bigs and they just as clearly need to address offensive droughts that are rather inexplicable for a team that has two players who can drop 40 points on any given night and a third guy who's a career 20 point a game scorer.

Mike

From my perspective, the claims that the Heat would win 75 games in their first season together, or never lose two straight games, were silly and unjustified hyperbole.

The Heat had some depth concerns that were clear at the beginning of the season.  They were playing with below average centers and point guards, and their offense was run by two guys who were mediocre shooters who needed the ball in their hands.

So, yes, there were reasons to think that they wouldn't run over the league, especially in year one.  However, I think the fact that they're in the Finals and two wins away does, in fact, show that Riley's plan was a viable one.  While I agree that the Heat, if they don't add any more pieces, probably won't win 4 - 5 championships, I do think it's very, very likely that they'll add to their team, and will win at least one (and probably more) titles, unless there are massive CBA rule changes.

[Fafnir]

I guess if you're still calling the Heat successful I'm not sure what the "doubters" were right about.

Oh, little things like how getting a better PG and a better center was more important than tying up all your available cap space on a back up wing, a back up and undersized power forward and Joel Anthony.  Or maybe about how LeBron and Wade, while very good passers for their positions, do not have the skill set to run teams like point guards.  You know, stuff like that.

Mike

Yet they've gotten reasonably adequete play out of the PG positon most nights. Also Haslem now that he's been playing has been a part of most of their best 5 man units. Bosh playing the C position has been their best option all year long and would have been no matter what FA they would have signed with their cap space.

Given James Jones injury having Miller to provide wing depth has also been important for them.

[wdleehi]

If they lose this year and the new CBA forces them to surround their three players with D-Leagers, then it is a fail. 

[csfansince60s]

As much as I'd love to agree with you I'm gonna have to do the opposite. Miami made it to the finals in their first year together, and despite their team's construction spitting in the face of a traditional 5 man unit, they have managed to beat teams like Chicago and Boston that have that structure.

They did this on raw talent at three positions and fillers. Imagine what Miami could be capable of with a couple of consistent role players and a coach with a clue.

Well said.

-sw

Perhaps, "well said", granted, however, while Chi and the Cs may have had the structure of a more "balanced" team, the Cs were spent and not very deep or effective due to injuries (esp. Rondo)and the lack of cohesiveness that introducing 5 new players into a sophisticated defensive and offensive system creates.

The Heat were a very bad matchup for the Bulls, obviously especially at the 2 and 3. Call the 4 a wash and the 5 also, because Anthony was just the type of athletic, energetic but otherwise weakly skilled center who could neutralize Noah.

 Add James' athleticism helping to neutralize D. Rose in both assists and scoring and the terrible lack of quality depth of this Chi team is exposed, and that's an easy (I know this is in retrospect)path for the Heat.

So the fact that the Heat matched up well with the team that had the best record in basketball this season is a demerit to them?

Given your assertion of this as an easy path, I ask the following not meaning to be facetious: Who would you have rather seen Miami play en route to the Finals?

-sw

I think the Magic would have been a tougher out for them match-up wise than the Bulls.

The Magic matched up poorly against the Bulls for similar reasons as to why they matched up poorly against us: a dominant point guard (RR and DRose) that they couldn't contain and a Thibs designed defense (both for the Bulls and Cs) which has historically handled the Magic very well.

Miami has neither that dominant point guard that gives the Magic so much trouble nor the type of defensive  (albeit, those Heat can play some tough D)system that has proven so troublesome for the Magic.

Howard would have eaten Miami alive, Bass and Anderson would have presented different problems for Bosh and JRich, Reddick, Arenas and Turkoglu would have at least kept Wade and James somewhat occupied. In addition, Nelson would have been a problem for either Chalmers or Bibby.

[MBunge]

However, I think the fact that they're in the Finals and two wins away does, in fact, show that Riley's plan was a viable one. 

I guess it depends on what you mean by "Riley's plan".  There are plenty of players that could have been thrown together with Bron, Wade and Bosh and the team could just have easily wound up exactly where they are now.

To me, Riley's plan was to basically forget about PG and center and pair the Not Yet Big 3 with Mike Miller and Udonis Haslem as the unit that would ultimately win games at the end.  Now, maybe they just need more time together and better health, but I look at that lineup and see an overall small team that's not terribly athletic at 3 out of 5 positions and is without anyone who can run a team like a PG.

Mike

[MBunge]

I guess if you're still calling the Heat successful I'm not sure what the "doubters" were right about.

Oh, little things like how getting a better PG and a better center was more important than tying up all your available cap space on a back up wing, a back up and undersized power forward and Joel Anthony.  Or maybe about how LeBron and Wade, while very good passers for their positions, do not have the skill set to run teams like point guards.  You know, stuff like that.

Mike

Yet they've gotten reasonably adequete play out of the PG positon most nights. Also Haslem now that he's been playing has been a part of most of their best 5 man units. Bosh playing the C position has been their best option all year long and would have been no matter what FA they would have signed with their cap space.

Given James Jones injury having Miller to provide wing depth has also been important for them.

Yes, and if Miami had something better than "reasonably adequate" play at PG and something better at center than Bosh (who you do realize is a power forward?), there's no possible way that could have made the Heat a better team.  Nope.  Riley aboEdited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline.ely needed to lock in Miller, Haslem and Joel Antony with long term deals and make it extremely difficult to do anything else with his roster.

Mike

[wdleehi]

I guess if you're still calling the Heat successful I'm not sure what the "doubters" were right about.

Oh, little things like how getting a better PG and a better center was more important than tying up all your available cap space on a back up wing, a back up and undersized power forward and Joel Anthony.  Or maybe about how LeBron and Wade, while very good passers for their positions, do not have the skill set to run teams like point guards.  You know, stuff like that.

Mike

Yet they've gotten reasonably adequete play out of the PG positon most nights. Also Haslem now that he's been playing has been a part of most of their best 5 man units. Bosh playing the C position has been their best option all year long and would have been no matter what FA they would have signed with their cap space.

Given James Jones injury having Miller to provide wing depth has also been important for them.

Yes, and if Miami had something better than "reasonably adequate" play at PG and something better at center than Bosh (who you do realize is a power forward?), there's no possible way that could have made the Heat a better team.  Nope.  Riley abo****ely needed to lock in Miller, Haslem and Joel Antony with long term deals and make it extremely difficult to do anything else with his roster.

Mike

He got them under market value.  What three players that are better could he have gotten for under market value?