Scottie Pippen has lost his mind (Lebron > MJ?)

[StartOrien]

Pip's backing up a bit
http://twitter.com/#!/ScottiePippen

ScottiePippen Scottie Pippen
Don't get me wrong, MJ was and is the greatest. But LeBron could by all means get to his level someday.

ScottiePippen Scottie Pippen
Every NBA generation has a new set of stars and LeBron is there as the best all around player in the game.

[Mike-Dub]

Stephen A. Smith couldn't have said it better on SportsCenter (and I'm not a hue fan of Stephen A.).

No Scottie LeBron is not better than Jordan... But Russell was  !

[Mr October]

I'm not talking about his stats over the course of a game. I'm talking about whether he delivers consistently in the last 4 minutes of close games.

I have seen him fail at least as often as I have seen him succeed. That is being a 50-50 player in the clutch.

If Lebron was automatic in the clutch, he'd have a couple rings by now.

Jordan wasn't automatic either no one is. If he's making shots/plays 50% of the time in the clutch that'd give him the best percentage in the NBA most years.

Bottom line, is that I don't see any rings on James fingers. If you are the best player in the NBA year after year, are being called the best NBA athlete of all time, and you are a clutch player, you should have a couple rings.

[BballTim]

  A better rebounder? Yes. A more versatile defender? Possibly. A better defender? Not sold on that one from what I've seen.

What more do you have to see? He literally took over the Chicago series with his defense on Rose. Jordan was a great defender, but I think it's fair to say LeBron is at least equally as good.

  You're taking quite a bit of umbrage considering you're claim is only slightly different than mine.

[Fafnir]

I'm not talking about his stats over the course of a game. I'm talking about whether he delivers consistently in the last 4 minutes of close games.

I have seen him fail at least as often as I have seen him succeed. That is being a 50-50 player in the clutch.

If Lebron was automatic in the clutch, he'd have a couple rings by now.

Jordan wasn't automatic either no one is. If he's making shots/plays 50% of the time in the clutch that'd give him the best percentage in the NBA most years.

Bottom line, is that I don't see any rings on James fingers. If you are the best player in the NBA year after year, are being called the best NBA athlete of all time, and you are a clutch player, you should have a couple rings.

Bottom line: I hate moving goalposts. Clutch to ring counting, what?

The best player in the league can lose to the better team, isn't that the whole concept behind how the Celtics have won most of their rings?

[BballTim]

Lebron needs to prove his clutch scoring about 5 more times after he finishes this postseason....then you can start to compare his postseason clutchness to that of Jordan's.

But I tend to agree with Pippen's overall estimation.

I think if you are looking at scoring, passing and defense...Lebron is better than Jordan overall.

Lebron has the physical gifts from god that he can be the best defender this league has ever seen.

Probably the best 2 way player this league has ever seen.

KG is also a physical marvel too. But he was never strong enough to guard the great PFs and he was too tall to be a true lockdown perimeter defender.

  LeBron's a better passer, on defense they're fairly equal, and LeBron's not the scorer Jordan was at all.

LeBron's a better rebounder, and actually a better defender than Michael. His size allows him to be more disruptive defensively and guard more positions.

He's definitely not the same sort of scorer that Michael was.

  A better rebounder? Yes. A more versatile defender? Possibly. A better defender? Not sold on that one from what I've seen.

If they're fairly equal (which you said in above and I agree with ), but LeBron is more versatile that puts LeBron ahead of Jordan doesn't it?

LeBron's ability to play 1-4 allows for killer small lineups that Jordan for all his greatness doesn't grant you.

  No, I was taking versatility into account. I think MJ was a better on the ball defender, although I'd probably have to reconsider based on current hand checking rules.

[CelticG1]

I'm not talking about his stats over the course of a game. I'm talking about whether he delivers consistently in the last 4 minutes of close games.

I have seen him fail at least as often as I have seen him succeed. That is being a 50-50 player in the clutch.

If Lebron was automatic in the clutch, he'd have a couple rings by now.

Jordan wasn't automatic either no one is. If he's making shots/plays 50% of the time in the clutch that'd give him the best percentage in the NBA most years.

Bottom line, is that I don't see any rings on James fingers. If you are the best player in the NBA year after year, are being called the best NBA athlete of all time, and you are a clutch player, you should have a couple rings.

Yeah I agree. And even though people will discredit his teams they have been favored to win the championship at least a couple times and have had home court throughout the playoffs twice as well.

I mean 2 years ago the Cavs lost 2 games at home ALL YEAR during the regular season. Then they come up way short in the Orlando series with HCA? Not to mention it's not like that Magic team was stacked

[Mr October]

I'm not talking about his stats over the course of a game. I'm talking about whether he delivers consistently in the last 4 minutes of close games.

I have seen him fail at least as often as I have seen him succeed. That is being a 50-50 player in the clutch.

If Lebron was automatic in the clutch, he'd have a couple rings by now.

Jordan wasn't automatic either no one is. If he's making shots/plays 50% of the time in the clutch that'd give him the best percentage in the NBA most years.

Bottom line, is that I don't see any rings on James fingers. If you are the best player in the NBA year after year, are being called the best NBA athlete of all time, and you are a clutch player, you should have a couple rings.

Bottom line: I hate moving goalposts. Clutch to ring counting, what?

The best player in the league can lose to the better team, isn't that the whole concept behind how the Celtics have won most of their rings?

Bringing rings in to the discussion isn't so far fetched. Gaining multiple championship rings has something to do with being clutch. But, sure lets step back.

What is your goal?

Is Lebron more clutch than Kobe and worthy of being called the best in the NBA? Yes i agree with you.

Is Lebron as clutch as Jordan? No. That was my point.

Jordan also did his damage in an era of great centers protecting the basket. Jordan also did his damage when guards could be hand checked.

[kn 99]

after 6 championships thats what people are saying about MJ. lets see if lebron can even win one

[Fafnir]

Once again we went from whether or not LeBron has been a choker, to how clutch he is, to how many rings, and now finally is he better than Jordan.

I'm done.

[barefacedmonk]

LeBron doesn't choke, he only quits.

[dlpin]

Jordan was significantly more efficient in the playoffs than Lebron has been, and Jordan played against superior competition in an era where the rules were nowhere near as friendly to wing players as they are now.

Increased charge area, 3 seconds rule, hand checking rules, all significantly protect wing players. There is a reason why Lebron shoots so many more free throws per shot attempt than Jordan did.


As for Pippen saying what he said, it is the same with Maxwell saying that Nowitzki is better than Bird: old sidekick trying to get attention and a spot on tv with outrageous claims.

[Mike-Dub]

LeBron doesn't choke, he only quits.

Actually it's both.  He chokes and quits.  He choked against the Magic and us, but we also made him quit.

[Mr October]

Once again we went from whether or not LeBron has been a choker, to how clutch he is, to how many rings, and now finally is he better than Jordan.

I'm done.

Dude, when did I call Lebron a choker?

To be honest I bet our opinions are not all that far off from one another. This is one of the problems with the meandering style of forum thread style debates.

And your original debate point is that James is more clutch than Kobe. My original post was wrong and I agree. I honestly don't know what i was thinking when i gave Kobe higher props.

Anyway, the topic of the thread is Jordan vs James. I'm curious. Where do you stand?

[LB3533]

Lebron needs to prove his clutch scoring about 5 more times after he finishes this postseason....then you can start to compare his postseason clutchness to that of Jordan's.

But I tend to agree with Pippen's overall estimation.

I think if you are looking at scoring, passing and defense...Lebron is better than Jordan overall.

Lebron has the physical gifts from god that he can be the best defender this league has ever seen.

Probably the best 2 way player this league has ever seen.

KG is also a physical marvel too. But he was never strong enough to guard the great PFs and he was too tall to be a true lockdown perimeter defender.

I certainly don't agree with you on Lebron being a better scorer than Jordan,

Also KG was never strong enough to guard the great PF's? Huh?

KG was able to guard the PF's, but he couldn't shut down the best ones.

Lebron can actually shut down the best perimeter players in the game.