Dirk vs. Webber

[Chelm]

Dirk isn't a slightly better offensive player, he is a significantly better offensive player.  Put a little more stock in PER and TS% here.

Longevity and health are important when making HOF arguments.  Dirk has already played 7374 minutes more than Webber (41,121 vs 33,747)in his career and is obviously FAR from done.

These two players aren't even close.

[BballTim]

  Webber had 1 great year and some really good years. He was never durable and he didn't sustain his play for any length of time. I don't know that Reggie should be a shoe-in either.

Agreed on his lack of durability - however, I would make the case that over 831 NBA games, he ended up averaging 20 and 10...He had six seasons where he averaged 20/10, and two others where he averaged 19.5/9.1 and 21.9/9.5. That's not sustained enough for you?  

To inform the discussion - Webber was definitely injury prone. He only had six seasons where he played at least 70 games.

  He sustained being a very good player for a while, not being a franchise player for that long IMO.

[MBz]

Dirk needs to start being tossed into the discussion of one of the top 5 PF's of all time.  His numbers are simply amazing.  Right now, he's about 200 pts shy of 23,000 career points, depending on how long he wants to play and how effective his game continues to be he could end up in the top 10 for career points.  I know he's not the best rebounder, but he's a solid rebounder.  The guy is a first ballot hall of famer with ease.  When it's all done, he could end up in the KG, Duncan, McHale conversation.

[Fafnir]

Dirk needs to start being tossed into the discussion of one of the top 5 PF's of all time.  His numbers are simply amazing.  Right now, he's about 200 pts shy of 23,000 career points, depending on how long he wants to play and how effective his game continues to be he could end up in the top 10 for career points.  I know he's not the best rebounder, but he's a solid rebounder.  The guy is a first ballot hall of famer with ease.  When it's all done, he could end up in the KG, Duncan, McHale conversation.

I don't think he'll ever approach KG/TD because he could only impact the game by scoring. His rebounding and defense have always been at best neutral and now are negatives for his team.

KG/Duncan had similarly long primes and were amazing two way players.

Because of McHale's short peak I do think Dirk will pass him barring a sudden injury.

[Tw1x990]

I think Webber was better, but it was for a shorter period of time. Dirk wins out due to longevity and if he wins a title this year its a no brainer. One of the reasons Dirk has been able to be so effetive for so long is that he doesnt play the hardest minutes for a big man. Some call it soft, some call it smart, but when your a jump shooting big who doesnt rebound a whole lot its alot easier to stay healthy.

Both fantastic players though. Both HOFers IMO.

[wdleehi]

I think Webber was better, but it was for a shorter period of time. Dirk wins out due to longevity and if he wins a title this year its a no brainer. One of the reasons Dirk has been able to be so effetive for so long is that he doesnt play the hardest minutes for a big man. Some call it soft, some call it smart, but when your a jump shooting big who doesnt rebound a whole lot its alot easier to stay healthy.

Both fantastic players though. Both HOFers IMO.

Dirk has a MVP season.  Webber did not.

[soap07]

To keep the discussion on track: Keep in mind, I think the vast majority of fans would agree that Dirk has had a better career and it's not really very close. He has an MVP, sustained his top level of play longer, made two Finals, better in the clutch...etc...

The question is who would you rather have in their prime? To me, Webber wins out by a hair.


Also, is Chris Webber a HOFer? That's independent of Dirk. I say no, but I also don't think Reggie is one either.

[soap07]

I think Webber was better, but it was for a shorter period of time. Dirk wins out due to longevity and if he wins a title this year its a no brainer. One of the reasons Dirk has been able to be so effetive for so long is that he doesnt play the hardest minutes for a big man. Some call it soft, some call it smart, but when your a jump shooting big who doesnt rebound a whole lot its alot easier to stay healthy.

Both fantastic players though. Both HOFers IMO.

Dirk has a MVP season.  Webber did not.

Some would argue Dirk didn't deserve his. The MVP is a very subjective debate. Dirk has the same amount of MVPs as AI....their HOF candidacies are not similar in any way.

[wdleehi]

I think Webber was better, but it was for a shorter period of time. Dirk wins out due to longevity and if he wins a title this year its a no brainer. One of the reasons Dirk has been able to be so effetive for so long is that he doesnt play the hardest minutes for a big man. Some call it soft, some call it smart, but when your a jump shooting big who doesnt rebound a whole lot its alot easier to stay healthy.

Both fantastic players though. Both HOFers IMO.

Dirk has a MVP season.  Webber did not.

Some would argue Dirk didn't deserve his. The MVP is a very subjective debate. Dirk has the same amount of MVPs as AI....their HOF candidacies are not similar in any way.

Both have made the finals.  Neither have won it (yet)

[Finkelskyhook]

Iverson vs Rose....Iverson vs Nowitski.  The epitomy of meaninglessness.

It would be a travesty for a malcontent tanking team wrecker like Iverson to get anywhere near the hall of fame.  I'd put Webber in ahead of Iverson.  Webber, IMHO, isn't close to deserving either. 

I'll give Webber this....He's a decent commentator.

[Celtics18]

Iverson vs Rose....Iverson vs Nowitski.  The epitomy of meaninglessness.

It would be a travesty for a malcontent tanking team wrecker like Iverson to get anywhere near the hall of fame.  I'd put Webber in ahead of Iverson.  Webber, IMHO, isn't close to deserving either. 

I'll give Webber this....He's a decent commentator.

Iverson was never a team wrecker, but he did manage to lead a couple of Sixer teams that overachieved due to his contributions.

[Finkelskyhook]

Iverson vs Rose....Iverson vs Nowitski.  The epitomy of meaninglessness.

It would be a travesty for a malcontent tanking team wrecker like Iverson to get anywhere near the hall of fame.  I'd put Webber in ahead of Iverson.  Webber, IMHO, isn't close to deserving either. 

I'll give Webber this....He's a decent commentator.

Iverson was never a team wrecker, but he did manage to lead a couple of Sixer teams that overachieved due to his contributions.

Iverson undermined every NBA coach (except Karl...Or Karl kept silent) he ever played for.

I'm pretty sure he didn't go to Turkey for more money...Or to expand his cultural horizons.   He can't buy his way on an NBA team for a reason, Celtics18.  It sure isn't because of a lack of talent.

[Bingbangbarros]

I think Webber and Dirk are pretty even. In their primes I would probably take Dirk. Neither were great rebounders, Dirk is actually slightly better defensive rebounder than Webber was. Webber obviously grabbed more offensive rebounds since Dirk plays on the perimeter. Webber was more athletic, better defender, better passer but Dirk had the scorers mentality.

Its close but I would take Dirk for the simple fact that he is clutch and could score in a variety of ways. Webber had no go to moves, horrible post game and rubbed me the wrong way at times. Kind of overrated and in my opinion never reached his potential. Its a tough call that you could argue either way since Webber was better at more things.

and I would take DRose over AI.

[greg_kite]

Webber never came close to what Dirk is doing in these playoffs.  He has been legendary with his efficiency and clutch play.

In big games all I can remember is Webber bricking jumpers in the fourth quarter as leads would slip away.  He would shy away from the basket because he couldn't hit clutch free throws.  He was a great regular season and first three quarter guy but could never will himself to win a game the way the true greats do.

[Celtics18]

Iverson vs Rose....Iverson vs Nowitski.  The epitomy of meaninglessness.

It would be a travesty for a malcontent tanking team wrecker like Iverson to get anywhere near the hall of fame.  I'd put Webber in ahead of Iverson.  Webber, IMHO, isn't close to deserving either. 

I'll give Webber this....He's a decent commentator.

Iverson was never a team wrecker, but he did manage to lead a couple of Sixer teams that overachieved due to his contributions.

Iverson undermined every NBA coach (except Karl...Or Karl kept silent) he ever played for.

I'm pretty sure he didn't go to Turkey for more money...Or to expand his cultural horizons.   He can't buy his way on an NBA team for a reason, Celtics18.  It sure isn't because of a lack of talent.

Yeah, he's made some mistakes.  It's a tough way to go out for an NBA legend.  In his prime, that guy was really fun to watch.  

His toughness was uncanny for a guy with as slight a frame as his.  

I get that a lot of fans despised Iverson and still do, but to me he was a legendary baller.  I couldn't help but root for him.  I still do, but I doubt we'll ever see him back in the NBA.