What all-time records could Lebron have when he retires?

[Boris Badenov]

If he has a longer career, he will change his game, much like Kobe and Jordan did. It is not possible to sustain a slashing style of play for an entire career.

Given that, I think the interesting question is whether he changes his game like Jordan and Kobe - moving to the perimeter - or whether he becomes more of a low-post scorer. Lebron has the physical strength to be quite effective in the post against other SFs.

If he moves to the perimeter I think you'll see his free throws decline. Perhaps not if he becomes more of a post threat.

The one given seems to be that he will break the assist record for a non-guard.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

Okay, I understand making a thread once in a while about other players but can you give me a break with this love fest of 100 threads about the CHeat? I know we are out and there is not much to talk about but why not talk about things that could help US or the news around the world? How about talking about Them in ONE thread? I'm sure they have enough threads about them on their team's site! I realize you have the right to do these threads, doesn't mean you should.

[feckless]

Most yards rushing.   


With all the skill, talent and athletic ability for the most part all Lebron does is put his head down, run over people and count on the refs to go with star quality in their call. Calling a charge a charge would cut off 80% of Lebron's game.  No love for Lebron's game here!

[barefacedmonk]

Most crab dribbles ever?

[OsirusCeltics]

The most sit-down interviews on ESPN

[nickagneta]

Listen I have zero love for Lebron. I can't stand the guy. But I can look objectively at what he might accomplish and the numbers he could put up and try to place him in history.

Also, to ImShak, besides being a Celtics sight, this is a basketball site as well and Lebron, whether you hate or love him, is the best basketball player playing today so it's not out of place to discuss him on this site.

If you don't like the subject, just don't read it or participate in the thread.

[BballTim]

So in the CB Historical Draft our fellow CBer, Moranis, chose Lebron James with the 12th pick in the 1st round and got some mixed reaction. I happened to think that was a good pick at that spot but others, not so much. So it got me thinking.

If Lebron plays 12 more season and retires after his 20th season and maintains relatively very good health, what all-time records could he be looking to hold and could we be looking at him as one of the best players ever if not the best player ever based on his records?

Games - 1611 held by Robert Parish. LBJ has 627 in 8 years. Given the same pace of about 78 games a year that would leave Lebron about a half season short of the record. Would he return for a 21st year at 38 and 39 years old just to break the record?

Minutes Played - 57446 held by Karem Abdul Jabbar. LBJ has 25171. See above he might need one more year to accomplish this record.

Field goals made and attempted and points - He's about 40% of the way there on all three records and is only 26 having played 8 seasons. Could he maintain a career scoring average of about 27 PPG and pull these three huge records off?

Assists for a non-PG - held by Reggie Theus at 6453. Lebron should shatter this record and probably be amongst the top ten in career assists when all is said and done.

Free throws attempted and made - again he's over 40% of the way there already and it could be very close though with ten years of "Lebron rules" he could reach these before the end.

So, if Lebron James could attain all these career NBA records, where does that put him in comparison to his peers who attained them in a different era, for better or worse?

  Are you assuming his stats in his mid 30s will duplicate his stats in his mid 20s? I don't see that happening.

MJ's and Kobe's stats didn't really trail off much. I don't see why it can't be assumed that Lebron, who is every much a freak of athletic nature as they are couldn't produce consistently into his mid 30's

  Kobe's only 32. Jordan quit when he was 34 and his stats were dropping. Look at his numbers on the Bullets, when he was the age you're still expecting LeBron to be putting up similar numbers to what he did in his mid 20s. It's not going to happen, and how well he plays when he gets past Kobe's age will depend on whether he's able to evolve his game or not.

[Fafnir]

  Kobe's only 32. Jordan quit when he was 34 and his stats were dropping. Look at his numbers on the Bullets, when he was the age you're still expecting LeBron to be putting up similar numbers to what he did in his mid 20s. It's not going to happen, and how well he plays when he gets past Kobe's age will depend on whether he's able to evolve his game or not.

If he learns to play in the post like MJ and Kobe did his size and athleticism should give him a long career arc.

[BballTim]

  Kobe's only 32. Jordan quit when he was 34 and his stats were dropping. Look at his numbers on the Bullets, when he was the age you're still expecting LeBron to be putting up similar numbers to what he did in his mid 20s. It's not going to happen, and how well he plays when he gets past Kobe's age will depend on whether he's able to evolve his game or not.

If he learns to play in the post like MJ and Kobe did his size and athleticism should give him a long career arc.

  I agree but that probably cuts down on his touches by quite a bit.

[Eja117]

One guy that gives me some perspective on this is Shaq. The guy has been around forever. There are zero players still around from the draft class after his.   There are 3 guys around from the one after that. And KG out of high school is the only one around from the class after that. No wait. Antonio McDyess is also.

Shaq was absolutely dominant for a very very long time and he isn't going to break that many records.

This is just really hard to do

[Fafnir]

One guy that gives me some perspective on this is Shaq. The guy has been around forever. There are zero players still around from the draft class after his.   There are 3 guys around from the one after that. And KG out of high school is the only one around from the class after that. No wait. Antonio McDyess is also.

Shaq was absolutely dominant for a very very long time and he isn't going to break that many records.

This is just really hard to do

Shaq missed a ton of games though, injury prone his whole career.

[Moranis]

So in the CB Historical Draft our fellow CBer, Moranis, chose Lebron James with the 12th pick in the 1st round and got some mixed reaction. I happened to think that was a good pick at that spot but others, not so much. So it got me thinking.

If Lebron plays 12 more season and retires after his 20th season and maintains relatively very good health, what all-time records could he be looking to hold and could we be looking at him as one of the best players ever if not the best player ever based on his records?

Games - 1611 held by Robert Parish. LBJ has 627 in 8 years. Given the same pace of about 78 games a year that would leave Lebron about a half season short of the record. Would he return for a 21st year at 38 and 39 years old just to break the record?

Minutes Played - 57446 held by Karem Abdul Jabbar. LBJ has 25171. See above he might need one more year to accomplish this record.

Field goals made and attempted and points - He's about 40% of the way there on all three records and is only 26 having played 8 seasons. Could he maintain a career scoring average of about 27 PPG and pull these three huge records off?

Assists for a non-PG - held by Reggie Theus at 6453. Lebron should shatter this record and probably be amongst the top ten in career assists when all is said and done.

Free throws attempted and made - again he's over 40% of the way there already and it could be very close though with ten years of "Lebron rules" he could reach these before the end.

So, if Lebron James could attain all these career NBA records, where does that put him in comparison to his peers who attained them in a different era, for better or worse?

  Are you assuming his stats in his mid 30s will duplicate his stats in his mid 20s? I don't see that happening.

MJ's and Kobe's stats didn't really trail off much. I don't see why it can't be assumed that Lebron, who is every much a freak of athletic nature as they are couldn't produce consistently into his mid 30's

  Kobe's only 32. Jordan quit when he was 34 and his stats were dropping. Look at his numbers on the Bullets, when he was the age you're still expecting LeBron to be putting up similar numbers to what he did in his mid 20s. It's not going to happen, and how well he plays when he gets past Kobe's age will depend on whether he's able to evolve his game or not.

Kobe also had 4 years in the beginning that weren't very good and he still averaged over 25 a game this year (which is more then he had during two seasons clearly in his prime).  Kobe also had the strike shortened season and four other seasons of games in the 60's during his prime.  Lebron had 1 bad season in the beginning, hasn't had a shortened season (hopefully that continues), and hasn't played less then 75 games in any season. 

What really might stop Lebron is Wade and Bosh.  There just may not be enough shots for Lebron for him to approach Malone and Kareem. 

[BballTim]

If he has a longer career, he will change his game, much like Kobe and Jordan did. It is not possible to sustain a slashing style of play for an entire career.

Given that, I think the interesting question is whether he changes his game like Jordan and Kobe - moving to the perimeter - or whether he becomes more of a low-post scorer. Lebron has the physical strength to be quite effective in the post against other SFs.

If he moves to the perimeter I think you'll see his free throws decline. Perhaps not if he becomes more of a post threat.

The one given seems to be that he will break the assist record for a non-guard.

  If LeBron spends most of his time on the post he'll be going against pfs, not sfs. He'll probably get assists for a non-guard (although that's not really a record) but he's only a little over a half an assist a game over Bird. If he goes the low post route his career will probably be longer but his assist rate will probably drop as well.

[BballTim]

So in the CB Historical Draft our fellow CBer, Moranis, chose Lebron James with the 12th pick in the 1st round and got some mixed reaction. I happened to think that was a good pick at that spot but others, not so much. So it got me thinking.

If Lebron plays 12 more season and retires after his 20th season and maintains relatively very good health, what all-time records could he be looking to hold and could we be looking at him as one of the best players ever if not the best player ever based on his records?

Games - 1611 held by Robert Parish. LBJ has 627 in 8 years. Given the same pace of about 78 games a year that would leave Lebron about a half season short of the record. Would he return for a 21st year at 38 and 39 years old just to break the record?

Minutes Played - 57446 held by Karem Abdul Jabbar. LBJ has 25171. See above he might need one more year to accomplish this record.

Field goals made and attempted and points - He's about 40% of the way there on all three records and is only 26 having played 8 seasons. Could he maintain a career scoring average of about 27 PPG and pull these three huge records off?

Assists for a non-PG - held by Reggie Theus at 6453. Lebron should shatter this record and probably be amongst the top ten in career assists when all is said and done.

Free throws attempted and made - again he's over 40% of the way there already and it could be very close though with ten years of "Lebron rules" he could reach these before the end.

So, if Lebron James could attain all these career NBA records, where does that put him in comparison to his peers who attained them in a different era, for better or worse?

  Are you assuming his stats in his mid 30s will duplicate his stats in his mid 20s? I don't see that happening.

MJ's and Kobe's stats didn't really trail off much. I don't see why it can't be assumed that Lebron, who is every much a freak of athletic nature as they are couldn't produce consistently into his mid 30's

  Kobe's only 32. Jordan quit when he was 34 and his stats were dropping. Look at his numbers on the Bullets, when he was the age you're still expecting LeBron to be putting up similar numbers to what he did in his mid 20s. It's not going to happen, and how well he plays when he gets past Kobe's age will depend on whether he's able to evolve his game or not.

Kobe also had 4 years in the beginning that weren't very good and he still averaged over 25 a game this year (which is more then he had during two seasons clearly in his prime).  Kobe also had the strike shortened season and four other seasons of games in the 60's during his prime.  Lebron had 1 bad season in the beginning, hasn't had a shortened season (hopefully that continues), and hasn't played less then 75 games in any season. 

What really might stop Lebron is Wade and Bosh.  There just may not be enough shots for Lebron for him to approach Malone and Kareem. 

  I wasn't talking about whether Kobe had a chance at a record. I'm just pointing out that there's no way that LeBron's going to be putting up numbers like he is now when he's 35-36 or so. He won't keep up this pace forever so it would take longer to break any records than Nick was implying.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

One guy that gives me some perspective on this is Shaq. The guy has been around forever. There are zero players still around from the draft class after his.   There are 3 guys around from the one after that. And KG out of high school is the only one around from the class after that. No wait. Antonio McDyess is also.

Shaq was absolutely dominant for a very very long time and he isn't going to break that many records.

This is just really hard to do

Shaq missed a ton of games though, injury prone his whole career.

I can tell you never actually watched Shaq if you say he has been "injury prone his whole career" (maybe you never even looked it up). Last season was Shaq's 19th season, he had missed only like 2 or so (I'm too lazy to get an actual number but I watched him, so I know it isn't much more than that) playoff games b4 this season b/c of injury (only missed the playoffs 1 of those seasons so that would make 17 playoff appearances not including this one)! He has been injured his last few seasons quite a bit but he played like 78 games only 2 seasons ago and that was b/c he was intentionally held out on some of the Suns b2b games or he would have played in them all! His season with the Cavs was b/c of a freak injury (that Shaq has had 2 times 0.0) BBD caused by stripping the ball and getting Shaq's thumb. Counting on Shaq playing in the playoffs wasn't as huge a gamble as some would say (now that it's over, hindsight is 20/20), going off of Shaq's history of playing in the playoffs, it wasn't as if they put the chips on someone who frequently was out b/c of injury in the playoffs before!