Start Green over KG or Pierce (merged thread)

[Roy H.]

People need to stop talking about what Jeff Green could be. He is the player he is. He's about to turn 25 years old. He's played 5 full seasons in the league. The idea that he hasn't had a chance to show the player he could be is crazy--if he was good enough to be a great player, he'd already be a great player.

I think people need to stop thinking of Green as a potential all star and start thinking of him as a Rick Fox type (though not as good defensively). A solid role player. An asset, sure. But that's it.

Not that it really matters with Miami looking the way they do right now. I don't think there is a short term future in the East.

I don't really think anyone is looking at Jeff Green as more than what you describe him as.  Guys like that can be valuable pieces on a contender.  Look at what Luol Deng is doing in Chicago, for example. 

For whatever it's worth, I think Deng is quite a bit better than Green.  If Green was as good as Deng is, I could buy into inserting him into the starting lineup.  However, he's not.  Basically, Deng does everything Green does on offense (and then some), but also plays elite defense.

[chambers]

Our starting unit -- at least four of them -- have tremendous chemistry together.  Collectively, they were statistically the most effective unit in the NBA last year.  If we weaken our starters, we weaken our team.

Jeff Green needs to adjust to a bench role.  He's a big boy, he's going to have to handle it.  It's Danny's job to find more talent for the bench.

There's plenty of time for Jeff Green to start in the future.  Right now, if the team cares about winning, they'll keep our starters intact.

I just don't see Pierce getting through 3-4 potential playoff series having to guard the number one SF's on each playoff team in the East.

through rounds 1-3 of the conference finals is one of the following(most likely).
Joe Johnson
Carmelo
Lebron
Deng

For one series, no problem.
But once we potentially reach 2nd round and then the ECF, is Pierce really going to have enough left in the tank to guard these guys and then perform offensively at his age?
We wouldn't have even reached the ECF yet and have him guard Durant.

Pierce played well in both the playoffs last year (when we played four series) and this year.  People are trying to solve a theoretical problem that doesn't really have a basis in reality.

Doesn't have a basis in reality?
You're saying that Pierces (and Kg's) age didn't have anything to do with those 4th quarter collapses when the Miami Heat blasted us on the defensive and offensive end, game after game when it came down to crunch time?

I'm sorry, but that statement is just blowing off the fact that this teams age is seriously starting to catch up with them.
The current roster and potential free agent situation means we aren't going to have much to work with and we need to try and get an offensive spark and put a halt to these offensive droughts that we've gone through this year.

These are serious suggestions from fairly knowledgeable fans, regarding a situation that is most definitely not 'hypothetical'. You are simply kidding yourself if you think running the same crew with a few bench adjustments is going to get us anywhere next year.
Our guys are older, the competition is better, faster and tougher that we've ever seen- Jeff Green is the closest thing we've got to the athleticism of guys like the NBA's current Small forward studs etc.
Danny and Doc have both stated that we need to get younger and faster.

We could potentially solve 2 problems (Pierce's minutes, Bench scoring) whilst bringing out the potential in Jeff Green.

[wdleehi]

I would be on board using Green in a trade that brings back a player good enough to warrant using Pierce as a 6th man.


Well, not really.  I would still likely start Pierce and use the new piece to bolster the bench.




Is it possible Green doesn't fit this team very well?

[wdleehi]

Our starting unit -- at least four of them -- have tremendous chemistry together.  Collectively, they were statistically the most effective unit in the NBA last year.  If we weaken our starters, we weaken our team.

Jeff Green needs to adjust to a bench role.  He's a big boy, he's going to have to handle it.  It's Danny's job to find more talent for the bench.

There's plenty of time for Jeff Green to start in the future.  Right now, if the team cares about winning, they'll keep our starters intact.

I just don't see Pierce getting through 3-4 potential playoff series having to guard the number one SF's on each playoff team in the East.

through rounds 1-3 of the conference finals is one of the following(most likely).
Joe Johnson
Carmelo
Lebron
Deng

For one series, no problem.
But once we potentially reach 2nd round and then the ECF, is Pierce really going to have enough left in the tank to guard these guys and then perform offensively at his age?
We wouldn't have even reached the ECF yet and have him guard Durant.

Pierce played well in both the playoffs last year (when we played four series) and this year.  People are trying to solve a theoretical problem that doesn't really have a basis in reality.

Doesn't have a basis in reality?
You're saying that Pierces (and Kg's) age didn't have anything to do with those 4th quarter collapses when the Miami Heat blasted us on the defensive and offensive end, game after game when it came down to crunch time?

I'm sorry, but that statement is just blowing off the fact that this teams age is seriously starting to catch up with them.
The current roster and potential free agent situation means we aren't going to have much to work with and we need to try and get an offensive spark and put a halt to these offensive droughts that we've gone through this year.

These are serious suggestions from fairly knowledgeable fans, regarding a situation that is most definitely not 'hypothetical'. You are simply kidding yourself if you think running the same crew with a few bench adjustments is going to get us anywhere next year.
Our guys are older, the competition is better, faster and tougher that we've ever seen- Jeff Green is the closest thing we've got to the athleticism of guys like the NBA's current Small forward studs etc.
Danny and Doc have both stated that we need to get younger and faster.

We could potentially solve 2 problems (Pierce's minutes, Bench scoring) whilst bringing out the potential in Jeff Green.

If Green is good enough, he should be good enough to strengthen the bench. 

What is the missing potential?  Was it potential with the Thunder when he was playing a lot of minutes?

Why does starting in Boston suddenly and magically pull that potential out when years of starting with the Thunder did not?

[chambers]

People need to stop talking about what Jeff Green could be. He is the player he is. He's about to turn 25 years old. He's played 5 full seasons in the league. The idea that he hasn't had a chance to show the player he could be is crazy--if he was good enough to be a great player, he'd already be a great player.

I think people need to stop thinking of Green as a potential all star and start thinking of him as a Rick Fox type (though not as good defensively). A solid role player. An asset, sure. But that's it.

Not that it really matters with Miami looking the way they do right now. I don't think there is a short term future in the East.

No one is saying that he has to be an All Atar or as good as Pierce.
But we have an opportunity to try and reduce Pierces minutes, and inserting Jeff Green into a situation as the number one offensive option- on a team that shares the scoring load evenly- meaning he doesn't need to score 25 ppg as stated earlier.
He has never been the number one scoring option on any team in his 5 years. And when he was on OKC, he averaged 15.2 ppg behind Durant and Westbrook.

Either way, he needs his minutes increased DRAMATICALLY both in total and time playing with the starting unit( be it starting or off the bench.) We also need Pierce and KG's minutes reduced significantly.

Why can't Paul Pierce play a Manu Ginobli role?

[wdleehi]

People need to stop talking about what Jeff Green could be. He is the player he is. He's about to turn 25 years old. He's played 5 full seasons in the league. The idea that he hasn't had a chance to show the player he could be is crazy--if he was good enough to be a great player, he'd already be a great player.

I think people need to stop thinking of Green as a potential all star and start thinking of him as a Rick Fox type (though not as good defensively). A solid role player. An asset, sure. But that's it.

Not that it really matters with Miami looking the way they do right now. I don't think there is a short term future in the East.

No one is saying that he has to be an All Atar or as good as Pierce.
But we have an opportunity to try and reduce Pierces minutes, and inserting Jeff Green into a situation as the number one offensive option- on a team that shares the scoring load evenly- meaning he doesn't need to score 25 ppg as stated earlier.
He has never been the number one scoring option on any team in his 5 years. And when he was on OKC, he averaged 15.2 ppg behind Durant and Westbrook.

Either way, he needs his minutes increased DRAMATICALLY both in total and time playing with the starting unit( be it starting or off the bench.) We also need Pierce and KG's minutes reduced significantly.

Why can't Paul Pierce play a Manu Ginobli role?

You can reduce minutes and start.


Look at KG.


Look at Duncan. 



You just need a player on the bench the coach trust to put in there.

[Celtics18]

People need to stop talking about what Jeff Green could be. He is the player he is. He's about to turn 25 years old. He's played 5 full seasons in the league. The idea that he hasn't had a chance to show the player he could be is crazy--if he was good enough to be a great player, he'd already be a great player.

I think people need to stop thinking of Green as a potential all star and start thinking of him as a Rick Fox type (though not as good defensively). A solid role player. An asset, sure. But that's it.

Not that it really matters with Miami looking the way they do right now. I don't think there is a short term future in the East.

I don't really think anyone is looking at Jeff Green as more than what you describe him as.  Guys like that can be valuable pieces on a contender.  Look at what Luol Deng is doing in Chicago, for example. 

For whatever it's worth, I think Deng is quite a bit better than Green.  If Green was as good as Deng is, I could buy into inserting him into the starting lineup.  However, he's not.  Basically, Deng does everything Green does on offense (and then some), but also plays elite defense.

I agree with that.  I'm still saying it's an apt comparison, and that when I put my green googles I see someone a lot like Luol Deng when I look at Jeff Green.

The skill sets are pretty similar.  Offensively, Deng can knock down a jumper, and finish at the rim, but he's not a polished, ball handling three by any stretch of the imagination.  He's probably a little longer than Green which helps him defensively.  Otherwise, I wouldn't give him an edge athletically. 

Luol's got a warrior's mentality.  I think that's pretty clear.  It remains to be seen if Jeff Green's got that.  Jeff's probably always going to have that stoic look about him, but I suspect there's a little more fire in the belly than we've seen out of him (or maybe I should say of which we've seen only small glimpses). 

It'll be interesting to follow him next year.  I jumped on the Pierce off the bench band wagon because I do think it's a neat idea, but chances are Pierce will be the starter and Green will be his backup.  That's fine with me.  I'm still looking forward to seeing what Jeff Green can give us next season. 

[vinnie]

The only reason to start Green over anyone is for Danny to try and prove to everyone how he was right and that Jeff Green is a great player. There is no other reason to start him.

One other question: how long does an NBA player have potential before it is no longer potential and the player is what he is?

[Celtics18]

The only reason to start Green over anyone is for Danny to try and prove to everyone how he was right and that Jeff Green is a great player. There is no other reason to start him.

One other question: how long does an NBA player have potential before it is no longer potential and the player is what he is?

The dude averaged 15 and 5 in OKC for a couple of seasons.  I'm happy if he is what he is.  None of us are asking him to be Lebron James. 

Having said that, I think there's a good shot he'll return to being more of the player he was in OKC than the one he was while adjusting to his new role with the Celtics. 

I'm looking forward to seeing him play for our team with a full training camp under his belt as a Boston Celtic.