Realistically

[Jubunta]

Seriously... enough of the vapid and panic fueled trade Rondo or Ray talk... it's absolute foolishness.
First of, DA pretty pretty much said that Rondo is not going to be traded... and why would he? at 10m next season (as much as there is one) he is perhaps the one of the best bargains in the league.
Ray has PLENTY of basketball left. He is going to be more productive then Reggie was at 39... and Reggie was pretty darn productive...
But yes... perhaps if any of the starters from this last season, he is the most plausible to come off bench.
I firmly doubt Paul or Howard are coming through that door... we just don't have what it will take.
This is a bridge year... we will be competitive, but will have to seriously muster some feat of awesomeness to win it all...
Let KG and Ray play.. hopefully convince them to come back for 2012 in support roles off the bench...
Let Shaq and JO retire.. hopefully convince one of them to come back after the deadline a la PJ Brown.
Deandre Jordan is even a stretch... he is restricted, and assuming the CBA doesn't change too much, will cost us too much of the exception.
Don't sleep on Krstic, but he is far from enough.
We have 6 roster spots to fill (assuming at least Jeff is back) and not too much to spread around to do so...
again... this is a going to be a bridge year... DA knows it, Doc knows it.. deep down you do too.. you just don't want to admit it yourself due to the sliver of hope we have another deep run in us...
Yes, we will win 50 games... yes, we will win a playoff series.
But this time next year, when we have gone as far as this year... but have a lot more money to play with, and hopefully a cheaply priced Ray and KG playing 24 minutes each off the bench... we are going to be elated and have good reason to be optimistic.
 

[zimbo]

TP. Real talk.

[GreenEnvy]

Seriously... enough of the vapid and panic fueled trade Rondo or Ray talk... it's absolute foolishness.
First of, DA pretty pretty much said that Rondo is not going to be traded... and why would he? at 10m next season (as much as there is one) he is perhaps the one of the best bargains in the league.
Ray has PLENTY of basketball left. He is going to be more productive then Reggie was at 39... and Reggie was pretty darn productive...
But yes... perhaps if any of the starters from this last season, he is the most plausible to come off bench.
I firmly doubt Paul or Howard are coming through that door... we just don't have what it will take.
This is a bridge year... we will be competitive, but will have to seriously muster some feat of awesomeness to win it all...
Let KG and Ray play.. hopefully convince them to come back for 2012 in support roles off the bench...
Let Shaq and JO retire.. hopefully convince one of them to come back after the deadline a la PJ Brown.
Deandre Jordan is even a stretch... he is restricted, and assuming the CBA doesn't change too much, will cost us too much of the exception.
Don't sleep on Krstic, but he is far from enough.
We have 6 roster spots to fill (assuming at least Jeff is back) and not too much to spread around to do so...
again... this is a going to be a bridge year... DA knows it, Doc knows it.. deep down you do too.. you just don't want to admit it yourself due to the sliver of hope we have another deep run in us...
Yes, we will win 50 games... yes, we will win a playoff series.
But this time next year, when we have gone as far as this year... but have a lot more money to play with, and hopefully a cheaply priced Ray and KG playing 24 minutes each off the bench... we are going to be elated and have good reason to be optimistic.
 

If you don't want to trade Rondo or Ray, and don't think we can land Dwight or Paul, this is a "bridge year" to what?

Rondo is not leading a group of good players very far. He needs at least two excellent players around him. I'd rather rebuild entirely now than be the Hawks for the next 6 years and then have to start over with an over-the-hill Rondo.


I highly doubt we can get D'Andre Jordan, because a lot of teams would offer the MLE (why wouldn't Miami?) and the Clips will assuredly match. But using the MLE wisely can keep us a contender.

[chambers]

I think Ray is the least plausible to come off the bench.
I mean he'd be a great spark off the bench ala Manu Ginobli but KG and Pierce need more rest than him.
The guy is in better shape than most 25 year olds in the league,except his first step is a little slower.
You could start all of them and bench them very early- not start them the second half etc...
just preserve their legs for post season.

[2short]

I think Pierce off the bench makes a lot of sense.  Not so much his offense will be better against 2nd teamers (because he can score on anyone) but it will get  Green going and the team running more AND Pierce won't have the wear and tear of guarding against starting sf (til 4th quarter)
tp for realistic post!

[jc3celticsphan]

i say we take a shot at some young talent who could possibly emerge durring our next season how bout deandre jordan and terrance williams. williams had problems with the rockets and did not play a game with the team last season maybe we can get him via trade

we still keep our core players and add a player to the bench with potential.

[Roy H.]

Seriously... enough of the vapid and panic fueled trade Rondo or Ray talk... it's absolute foolishness.
 

It's hard to take the rest of your post seriously when you insult a large percentage of the board in your first sentence.

Why is thinking about trading Rondo (our biggest trade chip) or Ray Allen (a 36 year old on an expiring contract) "vapid" or "foolish"? 

I mean, seriously, what's a bigger leap:  to think that we could trade Rondo (a top five point guard) for Chris Paul (the best point guard), or to think that Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett are going to take huge pay cuts (collectively, around $28 million) to come off the bench after we go on a spending spree in 2012? 

And why does it make more sense to put all our eggs in the basket of free agency, when we'll be coming off a year in decline and in a market where there are very few elite players?

It seems a lot more prudent to explore options, rather than to stubbornly decide that you're only going to pursue one course of action.

[Q_FBE]

Who would start if Ray and KG came off the Bench?

Rondo, Delonte, Pierce, Troy Murphy, and Nenad Krstic

Perhaps the best course is to keep what you have and re-evaluate your options at the 2012 trading deadline.

[Jubunta]

Seriously... enough of the vapid and panic fueled trade Rondo or Ray talk... it's absolute foolishness.
 

It's hard to take the rest of your post seriously when you insult a large percentage of the board in your first sentence.

Why is thinking about trading Rondo (our biggest trade chip) or Ray Allen (a 36 year old on an expiring contract) "vapid" or "foolish"? 

I mean, seriously, what's a bigger leap:  to think that we could trade Rondo (a top five point guard) for Chris Paul (the best point guard), or to think that Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett are going to take huge pay cuts (collectively, around $28 million) to come off the bench after we go on a spending spree in 2012? 

And why does it make more sense to put all our eggs in the basket of free agency, when we'll be coming off a year in decline and in a market where there are very few elite players?

It seems a lot more prudent to explore options, rather than to stubbornly decide that you're only going to pursue one course of action.

Roy, I don't mean to insult.. that was not my intention. I just feel "a large percentage of the board" is reaching... I don't think it makes sense to trade Rondo or Ray... I was stating an opinion. I DO think it is more of a leap to land Paul then to think KG will finish his career coming off the bench.

Also, I didn't intend to imply we would be putting our all eggs into free agency, of course you evaluate all options. I just feel that next year is going to be a tad ho hum... I don't think its realistic that DA trades Rondo for Paul. He pretty much shot down any talk of trading Rondo in the WEEI interview, and we have a better shot of getting Howard in 2012 then via trade this coming season. I would consider a Paul for Rondo trade a win for us to be honest... as much is I like Rondo, I just don't see it happening. Ill be the first to insert foot to mouth if it does.

Who would start if Ray and KG came off the Bench?

Rondo, Delonte, Pierce, Troy Murphy, and Nenad Krstic

Perhaps the best course is to keep what you have and re-evaluate your options at the 2012 trading deadline.

Thats pretty much the jist of what I was saying...
next year I expect KG and Ray to start however..

To GreenEnvy
"If you don't want to trade Rondo or Ray, and don't think we can land Dwight or Paul, this is a "bridge year" to what?"

To better options to improve team after next season.

"I highly doubt we can get D'Andre Jordan, because a lot of teams would offer the MLE (why wouldn't Miami?) and the Clips will assuredly match. But using the MLE wisely can keep us a contender."

Agreed. Wholeheartedly. We do need to use MLE wisely, and Jordan is going to be tough to land, but I disagree that the MLE will be enough for us to contend for the championship.

I bleed as much green as anyone... I'm just not getting in the free kool-aid line.

[paulcowens]

It's not insulting to call vapid and panic fueled talk vapid and panic fueled.   That's criticizing the talk and not the folks who did the talking, nor is it calling out anyone specifically.

Rondo is the best player we have.  Talk of trading him is, to me, just bizarre.  He's someone you build with.  We are fantastically lucky to  have such a good building piece for a future team.

For a lot of folks, the players on other teams are like bright, shiny baubles.  Our players always looked acne scarred and kinda messy to us.  The grass is always greener.   Chris Paul is a fine player.  We HAVE a fine point guard, one who I think has more upside than Paul has.  If Paul hadn't had the big series against the Lakers, no one would be hyperventilating over him, and let's not forget that HE LOST.  He's not exactly superman, nor is Dwight Howard.

[Roy H.]

Seriously... enough of the vapid and panic fueled trade Rondo or Ray talk... it's absolute foolishness.
 

It's hard to take the rest of your post seriously when you insult a large percentage of the board in your first sentence.

Why is thinking about trading Rondo (our biggest trade chip) or Ray Allen (a 36 year old on an expiring contract) "vapid" or "foolish"? 

I mean, seriously, what's a bigger leap:  to think that we could trade Rondo (a top five point guard) for Chris Paul (the best point guard), or to think that Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett are going to take huge pay cuts (collectively, around $28 million) to come off the bench after we go on a spending spree in 2012? 

And why does it make more sense to put all our eggs in the basket of free agency, when we'll be coming off a year in decline and in a market where there are very few elite players?

It seems a lot more prudent to explore options, rather than to stubbornly decide that you're only going to pursue one course of action.

Roy, I don't mean to insult.. that was not my intention. I just feel "a large percentage of the board" is reaching... I don't think it makes sense to trade Rondo or Ray... I was stating an opinion. I DO think it is more of a leap to land Paul then to think KG will finish his career coming off the bench.

Also, I didn't intend to imply we would be putting our all eggs into free agency, of course you evaluate all options. I just feel that next year is going to be a tad ho hum... I don't think its realistic that DA trades Rondo for Paul. He pretty much shot down any talk of trading Rondo in the WEEI interview, and we have a better shot of getting Howard in 2012 then via trade this coming season. I would consider a Paul for Rondo trade a win for us to be honest... as much is I like Rondo, I just don't see it happening. Ill be the first to insert foot to mouth if it does.

I understand your opinion, and no hard feelings.  At the same time, calling the ideas of others "foolish" or "vapid" (i.e., dull, tiresome, etc.) just isn't a good way to get your ideas across.  Reasonable minds can disagree about whether it makes sense to trade Rondo or Ray; some of the adjectives used above were just unnecessary. 

I do agree with you that the *most likely* scenario is to go into the season with our starting five + Green all intact.  Depending upon what trade options are out there, it might even be the preferred course of action.  However, I think we agree that Danny has to aggressively explore options.

I mean, it might not sound realistic to land Chris Paul right now, but as we waited on the lottery balls to fall in 2007, how many of us were expecting a championship the very next season?  The NBA landscape can be unpredictable, and therefore I think the best practice is not to chastise people for thinking big.

[Roy H.]

It's not insulting to call vapid and panic fueled talk vapid and panic fueled.   That's criticizing the talk and not the folks who did the talking, nor is it calling out anyone specifically.

As an aside, the staff has a different perspective.

We think that saying "your ideas are stupid" or "you're using stupid logic" is the functional equivalent of saying "you're stupid".  It's just a debating tactic that doesn't really serve any purpose.

It's better to say "I disagree with your idea, and here's why..."

(Also, for whatever it's worth, my own opinion is that trade ideas for Chris Paul aren't "panic fueled".  Maybe they're unrealistic, but the reason people covet the best PG in the league has little to do with panic, and more to do with wanting to upgrade our lineup with a more elite player.)

[LooseCannon]

Realistically, it's foolishness to propose trade ideas without knowing what the next CBA would look like.  If I offend people by telling them they are fools for proposing trades that might be ridiculous even under the current CBA, so be it.

Trading Rondo probably doesn't make the team younger or more athletic.  Instead of proposing trade ideas involving Rondo for another point guard, perhaps it would be more realistic to explore ideas involving Rondo for a non-PG (who is not Dwight Howard) to a team that needs a point guard.

[Jubunta]

It's not insulting to call vapid and panic fueled talk vapid and panic fueled.   That's criticizing the talk and not the folks who did the talking, nor is it calling out anyone specifically.

As an aside, the staff has a different perspective.

We think that saying "your ideas are stupid" or "you're using stupid logic" is the functional equivalent of saying "you're stupid".  It's just a debating tactic that doesn't really serve any purpose.

It's better to say "I disagree with your idea, and here's why..."

(Also, for whatever it's worth, my own opinion is that trade ideas for Chris Paul aren't "panic fueled".  Maybe they're unrealistic, but the reason people covet the best PG in the league has little to do with panic, and more to do with wanting to upgrade our lineup with a more elite player.)

Agreed, and I'll be less sharp with my tongue.

By "panic fueled" I suppose I should say: I don't believe if it was accepted the Celtics are a declining team, or had we not bowed out earlier then expected or liked, that there would even be talk of trading Rondo.

[wahz]

Seriously... enough of the vapid and panic fueled trade Rondo or Ray talk... it's absolute foolishness.
First of, DA pretty pretty much said that Rondo is not going to be traded... and why would he? at 10m next season (as much as there is one) he is perhaps the one of the best bargains in the league.
Ray has PLENTY of basketball left. He is going to be more productive then Reggie was at 39... and Reggie was pretty darn productive...
But yes... perhaps if any of the starters from this last season, he is the most plausible to come off bench.
I firmly doubt Paul or Howard are coming through that door... we just don't have what it will take.
This is a bridge year... we will be competitive, but will have to seriously muster some feat of awesomeness to win it all...
Let KG and Ray play.. hopefully convince them to come back for 2012 in support roles off the bench...
Let Shaq and JO retire.. hopefully convince one of them to come back after the deadline a la PJ Brown.
Deandre Jordan is even a stretch... he is restricted, and assuming the CBA doesn't change too much, will cost us too much of the exception.
Don't sleep on Krstic, but he is far from enough.
We have 6 roster spots to fill (assuming at least Jeff is back) and not too much to spread around to do so...
again... this is a going to be a bridge year... DA knows it, Doc knows it.. deep down you do too.. you just don't want to admit it yourself due to the sliver of hope we have another deep run in us...
Yes, we will win 50 games... yes, we will win a playoff series.
But this time next year, when we have gone as far as this year... but have a lot more money to play with, and hopefully a cheaply priced Ray and KG playing 24 minutes each off the bench... we are going to be elated and have good reason to be optimistic.
 

I see the discussion has degenerated a bit but as far as Rondo's salary goes, the fact that he has a great contract is exactly why is the perfect player for New Orleans to get. If we are willing to do it, this is a case where we might have one of the best packages to offer if not clearly the best in trading a young exciting improving player who's salary is low and replaces the position you(NO) gave up. Paul is right on the line of saying he wants out. His back and forth taunts with Rondo about who Rondo plays with will also be attractive to Paul himself. Rondo, pick(s) and whatever else we need to do, without losing our other 4 starters or perhaps DW and Green,is probably enough and as much others might give. Rondo sign and trade Baby, clips pick and other stuff is close to right and helps us too. The trade would likely teeter on how many picks and who else, will cp3 sign an extension and is there anyway to know if DuWight likes snow?