The loyalty is sometimes an issue

[wedman8]

Last time the Celtics had to rebuild they kept the original Big Three although they couldn't be stars anymore. I know they had the horrible tragedies of Len Bias and Reggie Lewis, but they also skipped to make any trade with Larry, Kevin and Robert at that time.

Now, the situation stands more or less the same as it happened in the late 80's. They respect and venerate PP, Ray and KG, great, but I think this pushes them to make a possible rebuilding a lot more difficult. Maybe the only true untradeble piece would be Pierce for having been the core of this team.

Should Danny try to do what he has declared he asked to Red back in the eighties? Would any team be interested in Ray or KG?

[Who]

Should Danny try to do what he has declared he asked to Red back in the eighties? Would any team be interested in Ray or KG?

Danny won't have the opportunity to do what he wanted Red too.

The Big Three are already too old and their trade value has declined too much as a result.

Danny won't be able to move them for young stars or top prospects. They just don't have enough value, as trade assets, anymore.

Danny simply doesn't have the opportunity.

[Bahku]

Paul, KG and Ray should retire as Celtics ... whatever that means in terms of "sacrifice". Chemistry and integrity are more important than the bottom line, IMHO, and if you get rid of Ray and KG, say goodbye to any sense of cohesiveness or Ubuntu. No way do we trade this incredible core ... they can still produce and defend, and they still intimidate every team in the NBA.

[BballTim]

Should Danny try to do what he has declared he asked to Red back in the eighties? Would any team be interested in Ray or KG?

Danny won't have the opportunity to do what he wanted Red too.

The Big Three are already too old and their trade value has declined too much as a result.

Danny won't be able to move them for young stars or top prospects. They just don't have enough value, as trade assets, anymore.

Danny simply doesn't have the opportunity.

  He looked into doing this with Ray before and during the 09-10 season. But really, Who's right. Danny didn't have that opportunity (although I don't know that Red really did either). Danny's claim was that (whenever it was, 1989 or so), the team no longer had a real shot at the title (I disagree with this). In any case, that "closing of the window" was due to Bird's health, not old age. McHale was 31 or so at the time, Bird 32 and Parrish was 35 but still averaging double doubles.

  Contrast that to the present situation, where we may right now be entering that almost closed window or may have one more shot next year. Ray's going to be 36 next year and KG's 35 and somewhat on the decline. Minny and Seattle made the kinds of deals Danny was talking about.

[clover]

I really don't get the loyalty thing.  Certain players are paid $20M a year to play for a team--and for the team to have the right to trade them elsewhere in the league.

Pretty central to organization of the sport and not that big a deal IMO.

[Chief]

Ray is still a very good player with a $10 million dollar expiring contract. I could easily see Ray, Bradley, and a draft pick fetching a star like Gay or Iggy.

As far as letting guys retire as Celtics out of loyalty, put me down for a no. If they have real trade value, get rid of them. The big three are not going to beat the Heat anymore. They had a good run and now it's time to build a team that can match-up with Lebron and Wade.

[hpantazo]

Should Danny try to do what he has declared he asked to Red back in the eighties? Would any team be interested in Ray or KG?

Danny won't have the opportunity to do what he wanted Red too.

The Big Three are already too old and their trade value has declined too much as a result.

Danny won't be able to move them for young stars or top prospects. They just don't have enough value, as trade assets, anymore.

Danny simply doesn't have the opportunity.

He found that out the hard way back when Ray's deal was expiring and he couldn't get much for him at the trading deadline other than Caron Butler.

[ManUp]

Paul, KG and Ray should retire as Celtics ... whatever that means in terms of "sacrifice". Chemistry and integrity are more important than the bottom line, IMHO, and if you get rid of Ray and KG, say goodbye to any sense of cohesiveness or Ubuntu. No way do we trade this incredible core ... they can still produce and defend, and they still intimidate every team in the NBA.

I don't think our team will intimidate anyone anymore, atleast not any team that matters. The Heat/Bulls are the new beasts of the east. They are only going to get better, they are on the rise we are on the decline.

[LooseCannon]

Danny ended up doing what Red did.  The Perk trade is like the Ainge trade.

[PosImpos]

Paul, KG and Ray should retire as Celtics ... whatever that means in terms of "sacrifice". Chemistry and integrity are more important than the bottom line, IMHO, and if you get rid of Ray and KG, say goodbye to any sense of cohesiveness or Ubuntu. No way do we trade this incredible core ... they can still produce and defend, and they still intimidate every team in the NBA.

I don't think our team will intimidate anyone anymore, atleast not any team that matters. The Heat/Bulls are the new beasts of the east. They are only going to get better, they are on the rise we are on the decline.

Si.

[GreenFaith1819]

Paul, KG and Ray should retire as Celtics ... whatever that means in terms of "sacrifice". Chemistry and integrity are more important than the bottom line, IMHO, and if you get rid of Ray and KG, say goodbye to any sense of cohesiveness or Ubuntu. No way do we trade this incredible core ... they can still produce and defend, and they still intimidate every team in the NBA.

I agree with Bahku here. Paul, KG and Ray should retire as Celtics, no question.

This core brought us Banner 17. KG's presence allowed Perk to bloom. Ray brought class and a deadly outside shot - that is still affective even at 35.

The Big Three allowed Rondo to grow into an All-Star.

KG brought back a Defensive mindset.

IMO, Kevin Garnett is our modern day Bill Russell.

It's one thing to turn down a blockbuster trade - IF that came up. But the fabric of Team and what certain players bring to the table cannot be ignored - or replaced - if traded.

Even though I disliked the Trade, I supported Danny's decision to do it - but even with that I think we all saw how it temporarily affected the fabric of the team somewhat when Perk left.

One of the things that has made me a lifelong Celtic fan is the tradition...the teamwork...in the case of The Big Three, they embody that for this team - right now.

That's why - no matter WHO we brought in in a potential trade involving those three - we'd take a step back for next season.

Trade any of the Big Three next season - close the window.

Some players do have an immense level of talent (Wade, Lebron, Rose, Kobe, etc) - but you must have Chemistry and KG, Ray and Paul bring that to the table for us.

Let the next season play out, make a few tweaks, give Jeff more responsibility, etc.....but maintain the loyalty.

[birdwatcher]

The only Celtic from the original big 3 that could still play & contribute after 1992 was Parish. McHale broke his foot which meant all those classic footwork moves in the post were done. He was just tall. Everyone knows Bird was almost immobile from his back, chronic bone spurs in his heels & ankles--he was a broken man by the time he won a gold medal and retired.

The new big 3 is not in that situation--yet. Although Ray is in excellent shape, I do feel he has lost a step, but not his stroke. He will still be regarded as a key pick up for a playoff team who needs a shooter off the bench who can truly stretch the floor. Our problem is, he should probably be coming off the bench now but we don't have an adequate starter to replace him. So I think his trade value with his expiring contract is absolutely valuable.

Pierce may end up having the most trade value of any of the 3 as he still does everything well--defends, shoots at a high level, can still run the floor, is injury free and in the best shape he's been in for years. He's still tough to defend, can still play above the rim and can still carry a team if need be. His long contract may be what keeps teams from seriously gunning for him. These are the reasons I actually want to keep Paul--he could contribute on any team we put on the floor for the rest of his career, barring any severe injuries. This is the one player I want to be loyal to.

KG, well he had a good bounce back year, but it's clear too that his legs are starting to fail him in extended minutes. He has all the value that Ray has for a team that needs a leader and defense from the 4 off the bench, some reliable scoring and passing, and of course, his contract would free up some serious space for someone. He would be a good pick up for a team that needs to get over the top, most likely out west--someone like Portland--but I think the pieces teams would be willing to trade for him would not be the ones we'd look to start building with.

[Marcus13]

We dont have to worry about Danny being too loyal.

He's more likely to dump key players that still need than keep them too long

[Tradetime]

Danny ended up doing what Red did.  The Perk trade is like the Ainge trade.

Perk is getting absolutely lit up right now by Zach Randolph, in case you haven't seen that Memphis/Thunder series. He's being exposed quite a bit as the slow-footed, bulky body that he is.

Randolph, on the other hand, was a guy we had a chance to obtain some years ago when he was supposedly "the problem" in Portland. Not that Sheed punting basketballs into the stands during practice had anything to do with any disruption of that team.    Now the guy is a franchise player and schooling our beloved Perk on all facets of the game. Nobody here can deny this.

[clover]

Paul, KG and Ray should retire as Celtics ... whatever that means in terms of "sacrifice". Chemistry and integrity are more important than the bottom line, IMHO, and if you get rid of Ray and KG, say goodbye to any sense of cohesiveness or Ubuntu. No way do we trade this incredible core ... they can still produce and defend, and they still intimidate every team in the NBA.

I agree with Bahku here. Paul, KG and Ray should retire as Celtics, no question.

This core brought us Banner 17. KG's presence allowed Perk to bloom. Ray brought class and a deadly outside shot - that is still affective even at 35.

The Big Three allowed Rondo to grow into an All-Star.

KG brought back a Defensive mindset.

IMO, Kevin Garnett is our modern day Bill Russell.

It's one thing to turn down a blockbuster trade - IF that came up. But the fabric of Team and what certain players bring to the table cannot be ignored - or replaced - if traded.

Even though I disliked the Trade, I supported Danny's decision to do it - but even with that I think we all saw how it temporarily affected the fabric of the team somewhat when Perk left.

One of the things that has made me a lifelong Celtic fan is the tradition...the teamwork...in the case of The Big Three, they embody that for this team - right now.

That's why - no matter WHO we brought in in a potential trade involving those three - we'd take a step back for next season.

Trade any of the Big Three next season - close the window.

Some players do have an immense level of talent (Wade, Lebron, Rose, Kobe, etc) - but you must have Chemistry and KG, Ray and Paul bring that to the table for us.

Let the next season play out, make a few tweaks, give Jeff more responsibility, etc.....but maintain the loyalty.

The Big Three aren't going to get it done next year.  What Danny might have learned is that it's best not to make too many major trades at the deadline.  Better to get his team all in order in the offseason.

As to Kg's contribution to chemistry, etc., that means nothing if you don't have the talent in their prime to win.  No need to fossilize a team that once brought the town one banner.  The idea is to win more championships, not just memorialize the last one won.