We Lost Because Rondo Got Hurt

[Jon]

Really, it's that simple. 

Is the team aging?  Could they have used Perk?  Did Jeff Green underwhelm at times? 

These are all questions we can debate, but I think most of us would agree that if Rondo had been healthy the past two games, we'd likely be going back to Boston up 3-2 or at least still be alive in this series. 

And if that's the case, I don't understand why people want to talk about the window being closed. 

KG was All Defensive First Team this year.  All three members of the Big Three were All Stars.  These are not guys holding on by a thread, these are elite players in the league. 

Might they lose a step next year?  Maybe.  But Rondo might also gain one.  Same with Jermaine O'Neal and Jeff Green.  If Danny does well in the off-season, this team still has a shot, albeit a smaller one. 

But I wouldn't entirely rule them out yet. 

[BballTim]

  Agreed.

[Marcus13]

But we played better after Rondo got injured.

We really didn't even make a threat to win Games 1 or 2.

Ultimately, it did hurt us but we got ourselves in a 2-0 hole first...Im not sure, I think we werent mentally ready for the series until we got in that hole and we realized how real it was

[xmuscularghandix]

  Agreed.

[17wasEZ]

Really, it's that simple. 

Is the team aging?  Could they have used Perk?  Did Jeff Green underwhelm at times? 

These are all questions we can debate, but I think most of us would agree that if Rondo had been healthy the past two games, we'd likely be going back to Boston up 3-2 or at least still be alive in this series. 

And if that's the case, I don't understand why people want to talk about the window being closed. 

KG was All Defensive First Team this year.  All three members of the Big Three were All Stars.  These are not guys holding on by a thread, these are elite players in the league. 

Might they lose a step next year?  Maybe.  But Rondo might also gain one.  Same with Jermaine O'Neal and Jeff Green.  If Danny does well in the off-season, this team still has a shot, albeit a smaller one. 

But I wouldn't entirely rule them out yet. 

Can the C's just keep Shaq and hold him out of the line-up until March? April? Or just let him play a few select games until the playoffs? Pretty please?

[PosImpos]

I think Rondo's injury was a major blow, but I'm not convinced that having a healthy Rondo would have made a difference unless he figured out how to score against the Heat defense.  The reason the team collapsed in the fourth quarter every single game they didn't win in the 3rd (i.e. Games 1, 2, 4, and 5) was that the Big 3 exhausted themselves on both ends of the court for the whole game and then were expected to have enough late in the 4th to maintain or regain a lead. 

The only way Rondo would have made a big difference with that is if he could have taken over offensively for stretches, and he didn't do that in Games 1 or 2, or at the start of Game 3, when he was healthy.

[ejk3489]

But we played better after Rondo got injured.

We really didn't even make a threat to win Games 1 or 2.

Ultimately, it did hurt us but we got ourselves in a 2-0 hole first...Im not sure, I think we werent mentally ready for the series until we got in that hole and we realized how real it was

But that's the thing, Rondo was injured even before he hurt his elbow. Obviously this injury was worse than the others, but he's had an extremely unlucky year in terms of health. Rondo at full strength would have significantly changed this series...oh well, happens to every team I guess.

[vinnie]

See, as I posted in a thread the other day, Danny now has his perfect excuse. Danny owes Rondo a raise for getting hurt.

[Jon]

I think Rondo's injury was a major blow, but I'm not convinced that having a healthy Rondo would have made a difference unless he figured out how to score against the Heat defense.  The reason the team collapsed in the fourth quarter every single game they didn't win in the 3rd (i.e. Games 1, 2, 4, and 5) was that the Big 3 exhausted themselves on both ends of the court for the whole game and then were expected to have enough late in the 4th to maintain or regain a lead. 

The only way Rondo would have made a big difference with that is if he could have taken over offensively for stretches, and he didn't do that in Games 1 or 2, or at the start of Game 3, when he was healthy.

On paper, some of what you say makes sense.  However, we went to overtime you Game 4.  Are you telling me that Rondo's presence wouldn't have accounted for an additional bucket?  Or several additional buckets?  

On top of that, did Miami's defense really look that great, or did it look great when either A) they didn't guard Rondo AT ALL because he couldn't do anything or B) because the Celtic offense stagnated because it couldn't do anything either with an armless Rondo or without him in the game?  

I mean would you be raving about the Boston defense if D-Wade had a dislocated arm and we didn't bother to guard him, thus allowing us to slow down everyone else more effectively?  

Similarly, if D-Wade had a dislocated arm, wouldn't everyone be saying that's why Miami lost?  

[PosImpos]

I think Rondo's injury was a major blow, but I'm not convinced that having a healthy Rondo would have made a difference unless he figured out how to score against the Heat defense.  The reason the team collapsed in the fourth quarter every single game they didn't win in the 3rd (i.e. Games 1, 2, 4, and 5) was that the Big 3 exhausted themselves on both ends of the court for the whole game and then were expected to have enough late in the 4th to maintain or regain a lead. 

The only way Rondo would have made a big difference with that is if he could have taken over offensively for stretches, and he didn't do that in Games 1 or 2, or at the start of Game 3, when he was healthy.

On paper, some of what you say makes sense.  However, we went to overtime you Game 4.  Are you telling me that Rondo's presence wouldn't have accounted for an additional bucket?  Or several additional buckets? 

On top of that, did Miami's defense really look that great, or did it look great when either A) they didn't guard Rondo AT ALL because he couldn't do anything or B) because the Celtic offense stagnated because it couldn't do anything either with an armless Rondo or without him in the game? 

I mean would you be raving about the Boston defense if D-Wade had a dislocated arm and we didn't bother to guard him, thus allowing us to slow down everyone else more effectively? 

Similarly, if D-Wade had a dislocated arm, wouldn't everyone be saying that's why Miami lost? 

I'd give more credence to the theory that Rondo's arm was the biggest difference if Games 4 and 5 didn't look so much like Games 1 and 2.  If Rondo in this post-season were more like he was in the last two post-seasons -- attacking the rim and collapsing the defense -- then I would agree with you.  But in this post-season we only really saw one game where Rondo actually looked to score, and that was against one of the worst defenses in the league.

Even when he's healthy, for a while now Rondo has been great at creating shots for others for the first three quarters and a half, but then late in games when things get tighter he defers to Paul or he allows the offense to stagnate and then he dumps it off to somebody for a long jumper.  So no, I don't think his presence would have helped us as much as you say late in games where this series was lost.

[Carhole]

I think Rondo's injury was a major blow, but I'm not convinced that having a healthy Rondo would have made a difference unless he figured out how to score against the Heat defense.  The reason the team collapsed in the fourth quarter every single game they didn't win in the 3rd (i.e. Games 1, 2, 4, and 5) was that the Big 3 exhausted themselves on both ends of the court for the whole game and then were expected to have enough late in the 4th to maintain or regain a lead. 

The only way Rondo would have made a big difference with that is if he could have taken over offensively for stretches, and he didn't do that in Games 1 or 2, or at the start of Game 3, when he was healthy.

On paper, some of what you say makes sense.  However, we went to overtime you Game 4.  Are you telling me that Rondo's presence wouldn't have accounted for an additional bucket?  Or several additional buckets?  

On top of that, did Miami's defense really look that great, or did it look great when either A) they didn't guard Rondo AT ALL because he couldn't do anything or B) because the Celtic offense stagnated because it couldn't do anything either with an armless Rondo or without him in the game?  

I mean would you be raving about the Boston defense if D-Wade had a dislocated arm and we didn't bother to guard him, thus allowing us to slow down everyone else more effectively?  

Similarly, if D-Wade had a dislocated arm, wouldn't everyone be saying that's why Miami lost?  

I think a healthy rondo is better than a not health rondo but are you really comparing rajon to wade?

And you can't just ignore the 10 quarters he played healthy where, surprise surprise, the heat didnt cover him either.

Until he can make people pay for not covering him this is the defense he will continue to see. LA did it last year and forced him to take the most shots of any celtic in last years finals and now every team is going to do it.

Just the reality of the situation and other teams are smart to do it.

Rondo would have helped but I can't say his health guaranteed us a series win.

[Jon]

I think Rondo's injury was a major blow, but I'm not convinced that having a healthy Rondo would have made a difference unless he figured out how to score against the Heat defense.  The reason the team collapsed in the fourth quarter every single game they didn't win in the 3rd (i.e. Games 1, 2, 4, and 5) was that the Big 3 exhausted themselves on both ends of the court for the whole game and then were expected to have enough late in the 4th to maintain or regain a lead. 

The only way Rondo would have made a big difference with that is if he could have taken over offensively for stretches, and he didn't do that in Games 1 or 2, or at the start of Game 3, when he was healthy.

On paper, some of what you say makes sense.  However, we went to overtime you Game 4.  Are you telling me that Rondo's presence wouldn't have accounted for an additional bucket?  Or several additional buckets? 

On top of that, did Miami's defense really look that great, or did it look great when either A) they didn't guard Rondo AT ALL because he couldn't do anything or B) because the Celtic offense stagnated because it couldn't do anything either with an armless Rondo or without him in the game? 

I mean would you be raving about the Boston defense if D-Wade had a dislocated arm and we didn't bother to guard him, thus allowing us to slow down everyone else more effectively? 

Similarly, if D-Wade had a dislocated arm, wouldn't everyone be saying that's why Miami lost? 

I'd give more credence to the theory that Rondo's arm was the biggest difference if Games 4 and 5 didn't look so much like Games 1 and 2.  If Rondo in this post-season were more like he was in the last two post-seasons -- attacking the rim and collapsing the defense -- then I would agree with you.  But in this post-season we only really saw one game where Rondo actually looked to score, and that was against one of the worst defenses in the league.

Even when he's healthy, for a while now Rondo has been great at creating shots for others for the first three quarters and a half, but then late in games when things get tighter he defers to Paul or he allows the offense to stagnate and then he dumps it off to somebody for a long jumper.  So no, I don't think his presence would have helped us as much as you say late in games where this series was lost.

Again, I agree with your assessment of Rondo's play when healthy and the C's play in general.  However, I refuse to believe that a healthy Rondo wouldn't have won them at least Game 4, if not Game 5 too.  At the very least he would've dunked the ball in Game 4 (not to mention done a dozen other things better too).  

The offense could've stagnated all it wanted in the last half of the 4th quarter if the C's were up by 15.  

[LB3533]

I think having a healthy Rondo would have helped, but his health wasn't the reason we lost this series.

The only game we won, Game 3:

PP + KG = 55 points

Wade + Lebron = 38


Stars have to play like stars in the playoffs or you lose.

[Jon]

I think Rondo's injury was a major blow, but I'm not convinced that having a healthy Rondo would have made a difference unless he figured out how to score against the Heat defense.  The reason the team collapsed in the fourth quarter every single game they didn't win in the 3rd (i.e. Games 1, 2, 4, and 5) was that the Big 3 exhausted themselves on both ends of the court for the whole game and then were expected to have enough late in the 4th to maintain or regain a lead. 

The only way Rondo would have made a big difference with that is if he could have taken over offensively for stretches, and he didn't do that in Games 1 or 2, or at the start of Game 3, when he was healthy.

On paper, some of what you say makes sense.  However, we went to overtime you Game 4.  Are you telling me that Rondo's presence wouldn't have accounted for an additional bucket?  Or several additional buckets?  

On top of that, did Miami's defense really look that great, or did it look great when either A) they didn't guard Rondo AT ALL because he couldn't do anything or B) because the Celtic offense stagnated because it couldn't do anything either with an armless Rondo or without him in the game?  

I mean would you be raving about the Boston defense if D-Wade had a dislocated arm and we didn't bother to guard him, thus allowing us to slow down everyone else more effectively?  

Similarly, if D-Wade had a dislocated arm, wouldn't everyone be saying that's why Miami lost?  

I think a healthy rondo is better than a not health rondo but are you really comparing rajon to wade?

And you can't just ignore the 10 quarters he played healthy where, surprise surprise, the heat didnt cover him either.

Until he can make people pay for not covering him this is the defense he will continue to see. LA did it last year and forced him to take the most shots of any celtic in last years finals and now every team is going to do it.

Just the reality of the situation and other teams are smart to do it.

Rondo would have helped but I can't say his health guaranteed us a series win.

No.  I'm not saying that Rondo is as good as Wade.  But the comparison isn't that far off.  In both cases an All Star guard who is a championships contender's most important player would've been out.  If you prefer a Bosh comparison, that's fine. 

The point remains, if the C's had a healthy Rondo, the Heat never get close in Game 4 and the C's likely grind out Game 5.  They may not have guarded him closely in Games 1 and 2; however, they still guarded him.  They didn't in Games 4 and 5.  Moreover, when they didn't guard him at times in Games 1 and 2, he tried to attack the basket.  He all but gave up doing that in Games 4 and 5. 

Finally, if that doesn't convince you, Rondo played 30 minutes tonight of largely bad basketball.  Are you telling me 40+ minutes of a healthy Rondo wouldn't have made the difference in a close game? 

[Onslaught]

Would he help? Yes
Would it = a win? I don't think so.

Miami kicked out tail in the first two games. You had a feeling that Miami was just a little better then Boston. And it's clear that this team now runs out of gas. Perhaps if we have a short season next year that won't happen. But this year I don't think Rondo would be enough to push us over the top.