Tony Allen - a chain of events

[BC1996]

Shoutout to everyone who hated the trade when it was made and stood by it.  People are just now jumping on the bandwagon now lol

I hope you're not calling me out as someone who just started to hate the trade. I was borderline depressed after that trade because it honestly felt like Ainge decided to shut the window himself.

I hated it from the moment it happened. But what I hated even more was the fact that Ainge let Tony go because that's exactly what led to the trade.

Wasn't aimed at you at all.  I didn't keep track of who was against and who was for it.  But it's funny now how a majority of the board stood by that awful move even going into the playoffs despite our poor play and now all of a sudden people are realizing what a mistake it was

Sadly, there's no badge of honor for hating that trade and being proven right (although a lot of folks will still dispute that).  I would have much, much rather been wrong.  If Jeff Green averages 30 points per game the rest of the playoffs and leads this team to victory, I'd be thrilled.

Couldn't agree with you more.  I would love nothing more than to be completely wrong.

[CelticSooner]

Shoutout to everyone who hated the trade when it was made and stood by it.  People are just now jumping on the bandwagon now lol

The fact there is a bandwagon is a shame. The trade risks were way too high for my liking but I understand where Ainge was coming from. If anything he wanted healthy players on the floor.

I'm not sure the C's would be in a different situation if there was no trade. C's backup wing is Pavlovic with even worse bench depth.

Injury concerns have been a staple for this group the past 3 seasons. Signed a bunch of good players in the off-season that were injury prone as well though.

[BC1996]

Shoutout to everyone who hated the trade when it was made and stood by it.  People are just now jumping on the bandwagon now lol

The fact there is a bandwagon is a shame. The trade risks were way too high for my liking but I understand where Ainge was coming from. If anything he wanted healthy players on the floor.

I'm not sure the C's would be in a different situation if there was no trade. C's backup wing is Pavlovic with even worse bench depth.

Injury concerns have been staple for this group the past 3 seasons. Signed a bunch of good players in the off-season that were injury prone as well though.

I agree with everything you said except for the Pavlovic statement.  Danny could have tried to move a different combo of players or picks for a different wing.  Not sure who it would have been, but there were plenty of names thrown out there.

[aporel#18]

We should cut the drama around here. TA? we're talking about TA? I'm a big TA fan, even when "Bad Tony" showed up you could see how the kid was trying hard, with all his heart. But he's no longer a Celtic. He was trying to get a bigger role (the extra year didn't hurt either) when he signed for the Grizzlies. He didn't want to be overshadowed by Ray and Paul. Good riddance, Tony.

What I can't believe is how many people were secret TA fans. I've read hundreds of posts on how poor his IQ is, on his multiple flaws, and it goes on and on and on (like in Rapper's delight). And now TA is the key to everything, and now he's a lockdown defender, and suddenly he won't dribble on his foot or make a bonehead play... really? Come on...

That said, I still like Tony, but I don't think many people here actually like him. Anything goes (like in the Cole Porter song).

Green is a better all-around player than Tony, he shoots better than Tony and isn't too short to defend SF's (BBallTim, you're right), but listen, Tony has grown 2-3 inches while in Memphis... great!

And Perk is better than Nenad... after 7 years figuring out his role in this team. But get over it, Perk is not a Celtic anymore, except in his heart maybe. Nenad is our player, Perk isn't.

This team depends on many things to be successful, but Rondo is bigger than the rest. It's not the shooters, it's how he manages the match.

Go Celtics!!!

[Onslaught]

We'd be a significantly better team this year with Perk + Tony than we are with Green + Krstic, in my opinion.

I agree. And this year is the only one that was important. Not getting "value" for Perk. I'm not even sure we got that.

[BC1996]

We should cut the drama around here. TA? we're talking about TA? I'm a big TA fan, even when "Bad Tony" showed up you could see how the kid was trying hard, with all his heart. But he's no longer a Celtic. He was trying to get a bigger role (the extra year didn't hurt either) when he signed for the Grizzlies. He didn't want to be overshadowed by Ray and Paul. Good riddance, Tony.

What I can't believe is how many people were secret TA fans. I've read hundreds of posts on how poor his IQ is, on his multiple flaws, and it goes on and on and on (like in Rapper's delight). And now TA is the key to everything, and now he's a lockdown defender, and suddenly he won't dribble on his foot or make a bonehead play... really? Come on...

That said, I still like Tony, but I don't think many people here actually like him. Anything goes (like in the Cole Porter song).

Green is a better all-around player than Tony, he shoots better than Tony and isn't too short to defend SF's (BBallTim, you're right), but listen, Tony has grown 2-3 inches while in Memphis... great!

And Perk is better than Nenad... after 7 years figuring out his role in this team. But get over it, Perk is not a Celtic anymore, except in his heart maybe. Nenad is our player, Perk isn't.

This team depends on many things to be successful, but Rondo is bigger than the rest. It's not the shooters, it's how he manages the match.

Go Celtics!!!

I can't blame Danny for Tony's departure, but I miss him because he is such a "Celtic".  I always have liked Jeff Green and he was extremely fun to watch in OKC, but you can tell he's doubtful of himself.  Tony made more than his fair share of mistakes, but he usually left some sort of imprint on the game, which more often was postive last season.

You could always tell his lived for the moments where he had to guard the opposing teams best player.  It took the burden off the rest of the team because they knew he was more than up for the task, regardless of success of failure.  That's what made last year's team so great.  They rarely played with doubt, and nearly every player wanted to rise to the challenge, as opposed to hoping they could do it.  

With that said, Tony certainly didn't break this team.  Unless he had the distinct role of guarding a LeBron or Wade, he seemed somewhat lost at times.    

[jowwwman]

We should cut the drama around here. TA? we're talking about TA? I'm a big TA fan, even when "Bad Tony" showed up you could see how the kid was trying hard, with all his heart. But he's no longer a Celtic. He was trying to get a bigger role (the extra year didn't hurt either) when he signed for the Grizzlies. He didn't want to be overshadowed by Ray and Paul. Good riddance, Tony.

What I can't believe is how many people were secret TA fans. I've read hundreds of posts on how poor his IQ is, on his multiple flaws, and it goes on and on and on (like in Rapper's delight). And now TA is the key to everything, and now he's a lockdown defender, and suddenly he won't dribble on his foot or make a bonehead play... really? Come on...

That said, I still like Tony, but I don't think many people here actually like him. Anything goes (like in the Cole Porter song).

Green is a better all-around player than Tony, he shoots better than Tony and isn't too short to defend SF's (BBallTim, you're right), but listen, Tony has grown 2-3 inches while in Memphis... great!

And Perk is better than Nenad... after 7 years figuring out his role in this team. But get over it, Perk is not a Celtic anymore, except in his heart maybe. Nenad is our player, Perk isn't.

This team depends on many things to be successful, but Rondo is bigger than the rest. It's not the shooters, it's how he manages the match.

Go Celtics!!!

He's got the potential to be better than TA, too bad he's only got 10% of TA's heart and desire to win. His one good offensive game in the playoffs was yesterday (10 points, although one of the 3 pointers was goaltending on Bosh) yet his poor play on defense negated that and then some.

Green's defense is so bad he better be shooting >60% from the field to make up for all the points opponents score on him. That will never happen. Just check his stats for the playoffs im sure someone posted it.

Jeff Green will NEVER be a winner, he simply brings NOTHING except for scoring and when shots aren't falling he is a glaring hole and a negative on the team.

[BC1996]

We should cut the drama around here. TA? we're talking about TA? I'm a big TA fan, even when "Bad Tony" showed up you could see how the kid was trying hard, with all his heart. But he's no longer a Celtic. He was trying to get a bigger role (the extra year didn't hurt either) when he signed for the Grizzlies. He didn't want to be overshadowed by Ray and Paul. Good riddance, Tony.

What I can't believe is how many people were secret TA fans. I've read hundreds of posts on how poor his IQ is, on his multiple flaws, and it goes on and on and on (like in Rapper's delight). And now TA is the key to everything, and now he's a lockdown defender, and suddenly he won't dribble on his foot or make a bonehead play... really? Come on...

That said, I still like Tony, but I don't think many people here actually like him. Anything goes (like in the Cole Porter song).

Green is a better all-around player than Tony, he shoots better than Tony and isn't too short to defend SF's (BBallTim, you're right), but listen, Tony has grown 2-3 inches while in Memphis... great!

And Perk is better than Nenad... after 7 years figuring out his role in this team. But get over it, Perk is not a Celtic anymore, except in his heart maybe. Nenad is our player, Perk isn't.

This team depends on many things to be successful, but Rondo is bigger than the rest. It's not the shooters, it's how he manages the match.

Go Celtics!!!

He's got the potential to be better than TA, too bad he's only got 10% of TA's heart and desire to win. His one good offensive game in the playoffs was yesterday (10 points, although one of the 3 pointers was goaltending on Bosh) yet his poor play on defense negated that and then some.

Green's defense is so bad he better be shooting >60% from the field to make up for all the points opponents score on him. That will never happen. Just check his stats for the playoffs im sure someone posted it.

Jeff Green will NEVER be a winner, he simply brings NOTHING except for scoring and when shots aren't falling he is a glaring hole and a negative on the team.

I wont go that far because he's had to handle a lot in such a short amount of time.  He isn't wired like Tony, but I believe Jeff Green wants to win extremely badly.  I think his nerves are more of an issue than desire.  Nate Robinson is a perfect example.  Nobody viewed him as a player who would do everything to win.  However, he bought into the system and played his heart out last post-season.  At the same time, he was also able to come in with less pressure than Jeff Green.  

Jeff Green is quiet, but I'm not ready to say he lacks the will to win.  The unfortunate part is that we don't have time for him to find his confidence.  It needs to happen now.

[jowwwman]

He's had plenty of time to adjust, and even if he's not adjusted to the system well, if he really had a will to win he would be showing it by doing other things like rebounding and solid D.

His playoff stats for 6 games: 7.3 points in 18.3 minutes. He's shooting 39 percent from the field (horrendous for a power forward) 58 percent from the line. Has 3 rebounds a game, 0.2 assists per game and 1.5 turnovers a game. That's suckage from all across the board.

For those that want to argue its not about stats what does he bring outside of the that some scrub for the minimum can’t bring? His amazing lockdown defense, veteran leadership and good locker room presence?

I’d rather have a gimpy Perk and Nate cheering on the sidelines than watch this goofy soft Green fumble another pass.

[GreenFaith1819]

From what I understand with the TA situation, he chose to leave Boston because he wanted a bigger role?

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but last summer that's what I understood the reason for TA leaving to be.

So...if my speculation is true....then what "Bigger Role" did Tony Allen want here in Boston? Did he want to start over Ray Allen?

Did he want to start over Paul Pierce?

He seems to be happy in a starting role in MEM, and I'll be the first to say that I'm happy for him. I was pulling for TA (and Scal and Sheed) back when it was almost comical to do so - because I believed in Team.

I'll never forget that Christmas Day game back in Dec 2009, I believe - the one where TA stood in for Paul Pierce and scored 16 pts in a Christmas Day victory over ORL.

TA is thriving in his role now, with Rudy being out - and I'm happy for him. But if I am correct in above assumption then I'm happy Danny let him go.

Another speculation was that it was money? I thought the issue wasn't money, If I remember it.

With this being said, Tony Allen doesn't, evidently, have the humility of Jeff Green. Jeff gave up his starting spot on a contending team to report to Boston and fill a need - behind our Captain.

Sure - Jeff Green has a different demeanor than TA. He is also 4 or 5 years younger than TA - and if I'm right in his career so far - he's also healthier than TA. Jeff Green has also not had the fortune of playing with a certain future HOF PF that has an incredible intensity about him....I'm sure some of that same intensity has rubbed off on TA over the years.

My point is that Tony Allen is now thriving in a situation that has been provided for him. Even once Rudy comes back, I cannot see him going back to the bench...my guess is that he'll start at the 2 spot. That is an opportunity that Boston could not afford him, and I wish TA the best in MEM.

Oh - and Jeff - nice game last night. Your 11 pts and timely baskets were for naught, as Boston unfortunately lost. You provided deep threes and offense last night, and your defense was, well.........about the same as the rest of the NBA in trying to guard Lebron James.

When I think about it....Jeff Green's Defense is in fact TURRIBLE .....if we look at this postseason, he's had issues slowing down Carmelo Anthony, Amar'e (in stretches), and now? Lebron.

I don't think there's a defender in the history of the NBA besides maybe Bill Russell, Hakeem, or Rodman that could slow down those three.

[Jon]

This team is losing because our superstars are being outplayed by their superstars.  Tony Allen wouldn't have changed that.  Neither would have Kendrick Perkins. 

Might we have lost by less?  Sure.  But the Celtics have bigger problems that need to be addressed than that. 

[BC1996]

This team is losing because our superstars are being outplayed by their superstars.  Tony Allen wouldn't have changed that.  Neither would have Kendrick Perkins.  

Might we have lost by less?  Sure.  But the Celtics have bigger problems that need to be addressed than that.  

The flaw in that logic is that it goes against everything that this team has stood for the last few years.  We were never going to win if we had to rely on our Big Four aginst Miami.  Coming into the season, we all believed the Celtics would win because they had an edge in mental toughness, as well as size in the middle that was going to combat Miami's ability to get to the hoop.  Ray and Paul can't match Wade and LeBron for 48 minutes, and the KG/Bosh matchup has been somewhat off I wash.  But as a TEAM, there's no doubt that role players like Perkins and Tony would be huge.  Perkin's would have been especially important because we would always have a legit Center on the court. 

One thing that can't be understated is the value that JO is bringing to the court, and I'm not talking about stats.  He's providing a solid presence in the paint, and you can tell he's completely comfortable with the Celtics defense.  He doesn't miss many rotations and he's usually in the right position.  Wouldn't it be nice to have two Centers who could do that throughout the game?

Remember the 6 minute stretch in the 2nd quarter where Miami didn't score a field goal?  That stretch happened when JO came back into the game.  Our defense has been exceptional when KG and JO have played together.    

We obviously need Rondo to play better, and hopefully KG can match his second half output throughout the series.  The difference this year is that we don't have any fall back option.  If the Big 4 aren't sharp every night we are going to have trouble winning. 

[jbsprinter1]

This team is losing because our superstars are being outplayed by their superstars.  Tony Allen wouldn't have changed that.  Neither would have Kendrick Perkins. 

Might we have lost by less?  Sure.  But the Celtics have bigger problems that need to be addressed than that. 

But it's impossible to limit their impact to these two games. You'd have to rethink the entire regular season. We were so close to the 2 seed and had a chance at the 1 seed. Not only would they have given us a better chance of winning those 2 games, but we'd have home court against the Heat. We could just as easily be up 2-0 right now. Heck, we could be facing the Hawks right now and the Bulls and Heat would be beating each other up at the same time.

And what are their bigger problems? Every problem I can think of connects directly to Ainge. Shaq's injury? Wouldn't matter if Perk was here. Rondo was frustrated in the regular season? Wouldn't have happened if the chemistry was still here. Our bench is lazy? Wouldn't have happened if Ainge didn't make bonehead decisions. Big Baby is playing hero ball? That's what happens when he's the only person stepping up off the bench! Baby isn't supposed to be the leader of the 2nd unit but now he is because the bench is terrible (which connects to Ainge).

Regardless, Perk and TA would have changed the entire season. We can't limit their impact to just two games.

[mrpoundforpound]

Jeff Green is horrible.

Completely agree. Would much rather be proven wrong. . .

Shoutout to everyone who hated the trade when it was made and stood by it.  People are just now jumping on the bandwagon now lol

I hope you're not calling me out as someone who just started to hate the trade. I was borderline depressed after that trade because it honestly felt like Ainge decided to shut the window himself.

I hated it from the moment it happened. But what I hated even more was the fact that Ainge let Tony go because that's exactly what led to the trade.

Wasn't aimed at you at all.  I didn't keep track of who was against and who was for it.  But it's funny now how a majority of the board stood by that awful move even going into the playoffs despite our poor play and now all of a sudden people are realizing what a mistake it was

Sadly, there's no badge of honor for hating that trade and being proven right (although a lot of folks will still dispute that).  I would have much, much rather been wrong.  If Jeff Green averages 30 points per game the rest of the playoffs and leads this team to victory, I'd be thrilled.

[vinnie]

Shoutout to everyone who hated the trade when it was made and stood by it.  People are just now jumping on the bandwagon now lol

I hope you're not calling me out as someone who just started to hate the trade. I was borderline depressed after that trade because it honestly felt like Ainge decided to shut the window himself.

I hated it from the moment it happened. But what I hated even more was the fact that Ainge let Tony go because that's exactly what led to the trade.

Wasn't aimed at you at all.  I didn't keep track of who was against and who was for it.  But it's funny now how a majority of the board stood by that awful move even going into the playoffs despite our poor play and now all of a sudden people are realizing what a mistake it was

Sadly, there's no badge of honor for hating that trade and being proven right (although a lot of folks will still dispute that).  I would have much, much rather been wrong.  If Jeff Green averages 30 points per game the rest of the playoffs and leads this team to victory, I'd be thrilled.

This. Prove us wrong, Jeff Green. Show some heart, soul, guts and toughness. Lead us to the promised land.