Joakim Noah is a dirty player....weird

[BballTim]

Noah is, and always has been KG without the offense.  Both of them are pests who like to get under the skin of opponents, and neither has any interest in an actual fight. 

   I think that the vast majority of players (including most of the stars) have little to no interest in getting into actual fights. When these guys talk about backing things up in the alley after the game I think of  players that at best are angry that they don't have the skill to let their play do their talking for them and more likely have a screw loose. Trash talk is part of the nba, players that can't handle it without wanting to get into a fight are IMO more of "can't take the heat" guys than tough guys.

[jdpapa3]

KG is a lot of good things, but..dude is kind of a all bark no bite kinda person when it comes to actually fighting..which i'm fine with.

Disagrees.

But, seriously, it is funny when people call KG an all bark, no bite kind of person when they have never seen him interact with people outside of an NBA court. Kind of lame if you ask me.

[Rondo9dunx]

People want to take away from the fact the fighting is the wrong thing to do. There are suspensions, heavy fines, loss of sponsorship, injury. I'd rather see KG back down from an actual fight 10 out of 10 times. Don't need him getting hurt or suspended. To some extent he has to be a professional. If you're looking to like someone because they are tough go watch GSP work over Jake Shields this saturday.

[indeedproceed]

KG is a lot of good things, but..dude is kind of a all bark no bite kinda person when it comes to actually fighting..which i'm fine with.

Disagrees.

But, seriously, it is funny when people call KG an all bark, no bite kind of person when they have never seen him interact with people outside of an NBA court. Kind of lame if you ask me.

EDIT: Also, I already covered this:

KG hasn't gotten beyond a shoving match in 5 years..and the only real 'fights' he's been in we've heard about have been with puny young white guys.

He also hit Wally Szerbiak.

Well alright, than he might as well be John Wayne off the court for all I care.

My point, my only point, is that KG talks incessantly, but hardly pushes, elbowed once, and never squares off.

He's not a fighter on the court, pure and simple. Who cares what he does in his spare time when the cameras aren't on him. He might pick his nose and eat it for all I know. Point is, on the court, in his jersey, KG has never been much of a fighter, and has always been a trash talker and instigator.

And, as I said before, I have no problem with that, I honestly kind of like it. I'd rather see this play:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luUAazRLc50

Than this play:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tJImw8A3zQ

Also, for the record, the ratio of 'fake tough guys' to 'real tough guys', if on the court action is theonly thing that matters, is like 25:1. Real punches were thrown what, once or twice so far this season?

[drza44]

NBA "tough guy" does not equal fight.  Not even the same equation.

It's not, IMO, a case of "NBA players talk a lot but don't want to fight".

Instead, it's "NBA players talk a lot which has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH FIGHTING."

To say someone is all bark and no bite connotes that they were barking about something, then when called upon to follow up did nothing.

Instead, in the case of the really good NBA trash talkers, they were talking a lot and BACKED IT UP RUTHLESSLY ON THE COURT.

Huge difference in my opinion.  I'm sorry for all the caps, but that's just a really silly line of thought to me.  If a basketball player talks mad trash to his opponent on the court, proceeds to stomp a mutt-hole in him as a player, and is uninterested in fighting...he more than backed up his bark IMO.  To think that fighting has any bearing at all on the bark/bite continuum is as ridiculous to me as someone calling Mohammed Ali all bark/no bite because he never proved he could hit a jump-shot in Foreman's eye.

[mgent]

Noah is, and always has been KG without the offense.  Both of them are pests who like to get under the skin of opponents, and neither has any interest in an actual fight. 

Hahahaha you can't compare KG to Noah they aren't even close.  Shouldn't even be used in the same sentence.  Who says KG has no interest in an actual fight?

Well...I do.

KG hasn't gotten beyond a shoving match in 5 years..and the only real 'fights' he's been in we've heard about have been with puny young white guys.

KG is a lot of good things, but..dude is kind of a all bark no bite kinda person when it comes to actually fighting..which i'm fine with. I'd rather he talk with his play and not get suspended.

Don't you think KG would rather have the same thing.  I mean if you're talking games right now I don't know how you can judge someone's will to fight.  There's a 100% chance of getting suspended.  For example I'd consider running into the stands to punch people out and not playing for 70 games plus playoffs because some guy was trying to start a fight with you is more stupid than tough.

As for guys on the court, they absolutely provoke guys in an attempt to get them thrown out.  Just because KG doesn't "bite" doesn't mean he doesn't want to or wouldn't if there wasn't 50 cameras on him.

There is no way I'd call every player in the NBA (except a couple dumb guys like Artest, S-Jax) a fake tough guy because they've never responded to a guy getting in his face, talking trash, or giving him a shove on TV.  You're trying to say none of those guys would end up in a fight if someone who wasn't in a position to get them kicked out of a game got in their face and provoked them in a private setting?  Did Tony Allen suddenly change from fake tough guy (who's never into a fight on the court) to real tough guy this year because of OJ Mayo?  Or Delonte West (same thing) because he blindsided Wafer?

Do you really think fans are aware of every fight every player has been in?Basically my question is how are you qualified to say KG has no interest in a fight by watching him at his job for 15 years?  I can't say for a fact that yes KG would oblige if someone he knew was trying to start a fight with him somewhere other than his workplace, but considering his personality and demeanor I'd lean in that direction before I'd agree with you and say he'd run away or that he'd just say "MF" and wait for 3 guys plus a ref to hold him back.

[mgent]

NBA "tough guy" does not equal fight.  Not even the same equation.

It's not, IMO, a case of "NBA players talk a lot but don't want to fight".

Instead, it's "NBA players talk a lot which has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH FIGHTING."

To say someone is all bark and no bite connotes that they were barking about something, then when called upon to follow up did nothing.

Instead, in the case of the really good NBA trash talkers, they were talking a lot and BACKED IT UP RUTHLESSLY ON THE COURT.

Huge difference in my opinion.  I'm sorry for all the caps, but that's just a really silly line of thought to me.  If a basketball player talks mad trash to his opponent on the court, proceeds to stomp a mutt-hole in him as a player, and is uninterested in fighting...he more than backed up his bark IMO.  To think that fighting has any bearing at all on the bark/bite continuum is as ridiculous to me as someone calling Mohammed Ali all bark/no bite because he never proved he could hit a jump-shot in Foreman's eye.

I agree with this.  Most of time guys start with KG because of something HE already said, so it was really KG who started it; why would he be the first guy to throw a punch?  It's in the guy who's upset hands' to start the fight (but that's never happened to my knowledge) and then KG can decide whether it's worth it to fight back.

Why is KG being called out as a guy who doesn't want to fight when he's really just getting the guy to do exactly what he was trying to get him to do?  He's trying to get the other guy to want to fight him and lose his cool/get his head out of the game.  If the guy wants to do the exact same thing back to him, why the heck would he fall for it?  It's what he was trying to do in the first place.

[indeedproceed]

NBA "tough guy" does not equal fight.  Not even the same equation.

It's not, IMO, a case of "NBA players talk a lot but don't want to fight".

Instead, it's "NBA players talk a lot which has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH FIGHTING."

To say someone is all bark and no bite connotes that they were barking about something, then when called upon to follow up did nothing.

Instead, in the case of the really good NBA trash talkers, they were talking a lot and BACKED IT UP RUTHLESSLY ON THE COURT.

Huge difference in my opinion.  I'm sorry for all the caps, but that's just a really silly line of thought to me.  If a basketball player talks mad trash to his opponent on the court, proceeds to stomp a mutt-hole in him as a player, and is uninterested in fighting...he more than backed up his bark IMO.  To think that fighting has any bearing at all on the bark/bite continuum is as ridiculous to me as someone calling Mohammed Ali all bark/no bite because he never proved he could hit a jump-shot in Foreman's eye.

Eh, I think your metaphor is lacking a bit, although it is pretty snappy.

We'll never know what is actually said on the court, but if a guy questions another guy's manhood, calls him a coward (or another 5 letter word meaning coward), and as a result gets into a confrontation which he than retreats from, I think in a lot of ways that's sending conflicting messages.

I think your view of what constitutes 'tough', and the intended meaning of 'tough' in the view of actual basketball players is a bit more optimistic and idealoigcal than practical. These guys aren't brought up to prove their manhood by soundly boxing out a guy and getting a contested rebound, or being able to hit a fadeaway baseline jumper, and when they question a guy's manhood, they're not questioning whether or not he's a 85% freethrow shooter.

I think MGent's post speaks more to the point of KG and the whole notion of 'tough'.

Noah is, and always has been KG without the offense.  Both of them are pests who like to get under the skin of opponents, and neither has any interest in an actual fight.  

Hahahaha you can't compare KG to Noah they aren't even close.  Shouldn't even be used in the same sentence.  Who says KG has no interest in an actual fight?

Well...I do.

KG hasn't gotten beyond a shoving match in 5 years..and the only real 'fights' he's been in we've heard about have been with puny young white guys.

KG is a lot of good things, but..dude is kind of a all bark no bite kinda person when it comes to actually fighting..which i'm fine with. I'd rather he talk with his play and not get suspended.

Don't you think KG would rather have the same thing.  I mean if you're talking games right now I don't know how you can judge someone's will to fight.  There's a 100% chance of getting suspended.  For example I'd consider running into the stands to punch people out and not playing for 70 games plus playoffs because some guy was trying to start a fight with you is more stupid than tough.

As for guys on the court, they absolutely provoke guys in an attempt to get them thrown out.  Just because KG doesn't "bite" doesn't mean he doesn't want to or wouldn't if there wasn't 50 cameras on him.

There is no way I'd call every player in the NBA (except a couple dumb guys like Artest, S-Jax) a fake tough guy because they've never responded to a guy getting in his face, talking trash, or giving him a shove on TV.  You're trying to say none of those guys would end up in a fight if someone who wasn't in a position to get them kicked out of a game got in their face and provoked them in a private setting?  Did Tony Allen suddenly change from fake tough guy (who's never into a fight on the court) to real tough guy this year because of OJ Mayo?  Or Delonte West (same thing) because he blindsided Wafer?

Do you really think fans are aware of every fight every player has been in?Basically my question is how are you qualified to say KG has no interest in a fight by watching him at his job for 15 years?  I can't say for a fact that yes KG would oblige if someone he knew was trying to start a fight with him somewhere other than his workplace, but considering his personality and demeanor I'd lean in that direction before I'd agree with you and say he'd run away or that he'd just say "MF" and wait for 3 guys plus a ref to hold him back.

Maybe. The only documented fights I know of that KG has been in has been with 2 white guys who would get owned by Danny Ainge with one hand behind his back. Basically every other player in the league says KG doesn't back up his trash talking, and watching him play, when a confrontation turns physical, KG is much more tactical than reactionary in most instances, even when he is being aggressive. KG does seem very, very aware of the consequences of fighting, and I don't think it is a coincidence that at most he's been suspended 1 game for elbowing Q-Rich.

Now, I'm not calling KG a coward, or anything of the sort. I am only saying that during games, KG talks a big game, but doesn't seem to follow it up when challenged physically, and that's kind of irrefutable.

[mgent]

Yeah I'd agree that KG defies the typical tough guy persona in that he is tough, but more smart than tough.  I mean you can't really be successful in the NBA by being an "on-court fighter."  What's the point?  Even Artest has calmed down after he realized it sucks sitting out a season and having GMs around the league blacklist you.  Can you name anybody who had a decent lengthy career and never once backed down from a fight on the court?

Also is it well known who started the white guy fights?  Could it have been the little guy trying to look tough by picking a fight with one of the biggest meanest black guys in the league?  You refer to them as puny white guys but I bet just by being an NBA-caliber athlete they can fight better than most of the guys you and I know (and I bet they didn't choose KG for the first fight of their life).

[indeedproceed]

Also is it well known who started the white guy fights?  Could it have been the little guy trying to look tough by picking a fight with one of the biggest meanest black guys in the league?  You refer to them as puny white guys but I bet just by being an NBA-caliber athlete they can fight better than most of the guys you and I know (and I bet they didn't choose KG for the first fight of their life).

This is one report, but from a very biased source.

NBA most valuable player Kevin Garnett punched a former University of Minnesota player during a pickup game last week at Target Center, cutting the man's face and chipping his tooth.

Garnett punched Rick Rickert, a second-round draft pick of the Timberwolves last season, according to several sources with knowledge of the event. Seven stitches were required to close the cut on Rickert's chin, said Susan Rickert, the player's mother, during a phone interview yesterday.

Rickert, 21, scored several times with the 6-foot-11 Garnett guarding him. Several other players began to "tease" Garnett about being outplayed, according to a source. When Rickert scored again, Garnett struck him without warning.

This another report, from the Washington Post:

Garnett punched Rick Rickert, a second-round draft pick of the Timberwolves last season, according to several sources with knowledge of the event. Seven stitches were required to close the cut on Rickert's chin, said Susan Rickert, the player's mother, during a phone interview yesterday.

Garnett's agent and a Timberwolves spokesman declined to comment.

According to a report in the St. Paul Pioneer Press, Garnett's attack was unprovoked.

Rickert, 21, scored several times with the 6-foot-11 Garnett guarding him. Several other players began to "tease" Garnett about being outplayed, according to a source. When Rickert scored again, Garnett struck him without warning.

"Rick was surprised that Garnett reacted the way he did," said Rickert's agent, Mark Termini.

[mgent]

Second rounder scoring on KG multiple times?  Sounds like he was having a bad day to me 

[Onslaught]

Noah is, and always has been KG without the offense.  Both of them are pests who like to get under the skin of opponents, and neither has any interest in an actual fight. 

Hahahaha you can't compare KG to Noah they aren't even close.  Shouldn't even be used in the same sentence.  Who says KG has no interest in an actual fight?

Well...I do.

KG hasn't gotten beyond a shoving match in 5 years..and the only real 'fights' he's been in we've heard about have been with puny young white guys.

 

Yea, and in High School he and a gang beat the crap out of a white kid in SC.

[Chris]

Noah is, and always has been KG without the offense.  Both of them are pests who like to get under the skin of opponents, and neither has any interest in an actual fight. 

   I think that the vast majority of players (including most of the stars) have little to no interest in getting into actual fights. When these guys talk about backing things up in the alley after the game I think of  players that at best are angry that they don't have the skill to let their play do their talking for them and more likely have a screw loose. Trash talk is part of the nba, players that can't handle it without wanting to get into a fight are IMO more of "can't take the heat" guys than tough guys.

I agree completely.  And let me be clear, I love KG's act (and I would love Noah's if he played for the C's).  I think it is a completely conscious thing, designed to get in the other players head with the knowledge that any real fight would be broken up immediately. 

I just don't think KG or Noah are Ron Artest.  Ron Artest is legitimately insane, and he loves to fight.  When he messes with someone he is hoping that they throw a punch at him, so he can punch them back.  But, I think when KG and Noah mess with someone, they hope they throw a punch, so that guy gets thrown out, and their team can have an advantage.

Does that make them fake tough guys?  Maybe.  But does that make them greater assets to their teams?  Absolutely.

[GreenEnvy]

Noah is, and always has been KG without the offense.  Both of them are pests who like to get under the skin of opponents, and neither has any interest in an actual fight. 

Noah should never be mentioned in the same breathe as KG in any facet of the game of basketball, plain and simple. KG's offensive repertoire is about as broad as it gets for a big man. His defense, many consider to be one of the greatest of all-time. His passing, few greater at his size, ever. Rebounding, led the league 4 straight years. MVP, DPOY, Champion.

[Senninsage]

Definitely a hypocrite, no doubt. How do you say what you said about Kevin Garnett, and pull some of the things I saw him pull in yesterday's game against the Pacers?

He was getting pretty dirty out there himself.