Jeff Green a great and crucial team player. Why don't more people see this?

[Senninsage]

It seems to me if you are looking for your bench to win playoff games for you, your team is in big trouble and won't last long anyway.  

If the bench gives the starters rest without giving the game away you are ahead of the game. I have never heard a championship team state that the bench cost them a game. Bench players should be capable of stepping up and  playing major minutes in case of injury, too...but filling in should be easier because of the quality of the players they will be on the floor with.

Well said, the large majority of the responsibility is on the starters, that's why they are the starters. The starters for this team were always going to be expected to be the ones that carry a chunk of the load the majority of the time.


The bench has to be expected to come in and give you something good on the offensive end, without putting you in too much of a hole on the defensive end, but it seems to me that isn't what some people are looking for. Many seem to be looking for some truly superstar, or starter worthy, performances off the bench on an almost nightly basis.

Can that happen? Yes, it absolutely can, and probably will in these playoffs, but the bench, which I admit couldn't hurt to be a bit better, has done all that they've needed to do in this Knicks series to help the team win. We'll probably need, and get even more out of them in a potential Heat series though, because I strongly believe we have the far superior bench squad.

[Senninsage]

So just how much is a middle of the rotation player really worth? I say not much.
And, how do you measure toughness? I put Green on the low end of the scale.
And how can Bob Ryan call Green efficient when he scored 24 points on 27 shots in this series?
Finally, has Jeff Green really played like the fifth pick in the draft?

The guy basically has done no more than give Pierce Little rest, and I emphasize little. Pierce averaged 39 minutes per game in a sweep of the Knicks, including 45 in one game. Sounds like a Guy not really getting the job done.

I have never been a Green fan, which is why I was so disappointed when he turned out to be the key guy in the trade.

I don't think this makes sense. This is the playoffs. No matter how good Jeff Green is, this is the playoffs. We can't constantly expect that we'll have such comfortable leads that starters as important as Pierce, Garnett or even Allen, don't ever log such serious minutes.

Even if Green were to somehow score 100% of his attempted shots, Pierce would likely still log that many minutes, because, at the end of the day, Pierce is the starter, and one of this team's most trusted and dependable go to guys.

We are honestly expecting the bench to do so much for us, that our starters only play somewhere in the mid to high 20s with regards to minutes? Is that what people are expecting out of the playoffs? A lot of times, even if our bench is doing well, the starters will still end up heading right back out there to try and carry the load. We are putting way too much responsibility on the bench. The bench's job is to support the starters the best way they can, it's ultimately the job of the starters to put the team in the position to win.

This Celtics team, even in the championship year, has never had a bench quite like what the Phoenix Suns had in last year's playoffs, who could very well serve as a full on starting five, with the way they could carry the offensive load. This Celtics team has always leaned more heavily on its starters, and that won't change because Green is now on the team. Green is doing what he needs to do, and I do expect he'll start impressing some folks a bit more.

[guava_wrench]

Didn't Pierce recently have a 1 for 9 first half or something like that? People have bad streaks in games, but a start like Pierce will get a lot of opportunities to improve on his stats because he gets so many minutes.

Delonte had some really great moments backing down Douglas, but he just doesn't play enough minutes to measure hit ability from box scores. This is the problem with trying to evaluate guys coming off the bench. They don't get enough minutes for us to take the good with the bad and an illusion of being erratic is created when, in truth, starters are also 'erratic' since that is just the manifestation of a normal distribution.

Green is a middle of the rotation player because we have a team filled with all stars who have played together for 4 years. Some people have even longed for TA, who was just as 'erratic' when filling the same role.

[EJPLAYA]

You know what's become very clear? Glen Davis should not be criticized for taking his mid range jumpers. When he's on, that shot is money for him. But when he misses it, people start saying how he's taking way too many jumpers. Fact is, the guy can make them at a pretty impressive rate.

That doesn't mean he won't mix it up inside, but he can stretch defenses effectively because of that shot. It's one of the primary reasons why Doc likes him out there in late game situations.

Fact is that the guy DOESN'T hit them at a pretty impressive rate most of this entire season. Only yesterday when he stepped in 3-4 feet was he back to shooting in his range was he able to be labled effective There is nothing impressive about shooting under 40% from the outside no matter how you slice it. Yesterdays BBD is a player I want on my team off the bench. That guy rarely shows himself anymore though.

[Brendan]

I also think Pierce, Allen, and Rondo played more yesterday, because Doc knew they had a week to rest.

[Celticsfan336]

Jeff Green provides versatility, and although he hasnt been palying up to half of his abilities, he is still the most versitile bench player in the league. He is a quicker, more mobile, athletic version of Lamar Odom

[Roy H.]

Jeff Green provides versatility, and although he hasnt been palying up to half of his abilities, he is still the most versitile bench player in the league. He is a quicker, more mobile, athletic version of Lamar Odom

I'm not sure that I agree with that.  Versatility implies the ability to do multiple things well.  Honestly, I'm not sure that Green has a single skill that is above-average.  His scoring is about average, and his passing and rebounding are below par.

[CaliCeltics]

I actually like Jeff Green, he can be a reliable scorer and could be huge in the Miami series. With a week of practice, hopefully he feels better about his role now. Also, maybe people always bashing him on Boston affects his psyche? Everytime there is a thread about him, someone puts down his abilities. He's one of ours, let's treat him like it yeah?

[BASS_THUMPER]

i thought that of scalabrine

and that one classic turnover...scal in bounded the ball and rondo was suppose to go to the ball

scal was passin away from the d...rondos fault not scal

dont wanna turn over old boulders but

[Celticsfan336]

Jeff Green provides versatility, and although he hasnt been palying up to half of his abilities, he is still the most versitile bench player in the league. He is a quicker, more mobile, athletic version of Lamar Odom

I'm not sure that I agree with that.  Versatility implies the ability to do multiple things well.  Honestly, I'm not sure that Green has a single skill that is above-average.  His scoring is about average, and his passing and rebounding are below par.

Well, he is versatile in the sense that he can post up a 3, go by a 4,  shoot an excellent mid range shot, shoot an average 3 and make smart decisions with the ball, he does have a high IQ. You can pose the argument that he is not above average at the starting 3 position yet, but off the bench he is far superior to 95% of backup 3's and is a real asset to have I think and hope we will all appreciate. And as we talked about in the other thread, he has defensive versatility if the matchup is right. He is an above rebounder at the 3 position, balls just havent been falling his way.

[wdleehi]

Jeff Green provides versatility, and although he hasnt been palying up to half of his abilities, he is still the most versitile bench player in the league. He is a quicker, more mobile, athletic version of Lamar Odom

I'm not sure that I agree with that.  Versatility implies the ability to do multiple things well.  Honestly, I'm not sure that Green has a single skill that is above-average.  His scoring is about average, and his passing and rebounding are below par.

Well, he is versatile in the sense that he can post up a 3, go by a 4,  shoot an excellent mid range shot, shoot an average 3 and make smart decisions with the ball, he does have a high IQ. You can pose the argument that he is not above average at the starting 3 position yet, but off the bench he is far superior to 95% of backup 3's and is a real asset to have I think and hope we will all appreciate. And as we talked about in the other thread, he has defensive versatility if the matchup is right. He is an above rebounder at the 3 position, balls just havent been falling his way.

Except in this round, he will be facing a SF that is bigger and stronger then him and a PF that is a quick PF. 


His mismatch advantages are not so great in this series. 

[manbehindtheman]

Comparing Green to Odom is in the same realm as comparing Shaq to Greg Kite.
Green looks very average/below average to me.

[the_Bird]

I've been completely underwhelmed by Jeff Green so far, but this is his series to win skeptics like me to his side.  This series was the whole reason for the trade, for the team to have another good player to match up against LeBron and Wade.  I honestly don't give a rat's ass about how much he scores, he needs to be able to play effective D against those guys when Pierce is out of the game.  If Pierce and Ray have to keep playing 40 minutes a game for us to be competitive, they're going to burn out just like in years past.

[kozlodoev]

Jeff Green provides versatility, and although he hasnt been palying up to half of his abilities, he is still the most versitile bench player in the league. He is a quicker, more mobile, athletic version of Lamar Odom

I'm not sure that I agree with that.  Versatility implies the ability to do multiple things well.  Honestly, I'm not sure that Green has a single skill that is above-average.  His scoring is about average, and his passing and rebounding are below par.

It's amazing how a player with one average NBA skill was a successful starter on a playoff team. I understand everyone expected the second coming of Paul Pierce and was subsequently underwhelmed with the output, but I feel this is getting blown out of proportion.

[BballTim]

Jeff Green provides versatility, and although he hasnt been palying up to half of his abilities, he is still the most versitile bench player in the league. He is a quicker, more mobile, athletic version of Lamar Odom

I'm not sure that I agree with that.  Versatility implies the ability to do multiple things well.  Honestly, I'm not sure that Green has a single skill that is above-average.  His scoring is about average, and his passing and rebounding are below par.

It's amazing how a player with one average NBA skill was a successful starter on a playoff team. I understand everyone expected the second coming of Paul Pierce and was subsequently underwhelmed with the output, but I feel this is getting blown out of proportion.

  You also have to take into account, when talking about average (in this conversation), it's the average out of all the backup players for a given position, not the starters. One's a much lower threshold than the other.