D'Antoni on Rondo : "I'd like to see him play on Minnesota and see how he does."

[BballTim]

lol what has d'antoni done..

I understand how comments like these ruffle peoples feathers, but saying stuff like this is ridiculous. D'Antoni has had success at EVERY single level of basketball he's participated from player to coach.  It doesn't mske sense to say "he wouldn't be anything without nash" 1. - because he was part of the reason the Suns got nash in the 1st place, and 2.- He's had plenty of success at his other stops.  D'Antoni is proven.  He's also in line with what just about every analyst or commentator has ever said about Rondo.

He didn't say Rondo wasn't good. He didn't say he had a better player, or that his team would win. All he did, was allude to the (IMO) fact, that Rondo is in a more comfortable situation in terms of passing targets, than 99% of the leagues guards.

I for 1 agree with D'Antonis premise (if not his delivery). I don't think Rondo would play half as well with a lesser supporting cast. If he was on a different team, where he was the focus of the defense (without as lethal shooters as PP and Ray), he would be consistently pressured. That would result in less visibility on his passes, and him having to deal with defense on his shots (which simply doesnt exist now).  No team has such high fg% options as the C's so I don't see how it's reasonable to think his assist numbers would remain as high.

  Consistently pressure Rondo and he'll live in the lane. One of the reasons teams lay off of him is because he'd drive by any pg that played him close. That leaves him heading to the basket with that great vision and the defense forced to collapse on him. Hardly a recipe for disaster.

This argument only holds true if he drives past his man, and the other defenders all are guarding players that they cannot afford to leave their men open for a moment to collapse on Rondo.  On Boston, you're probably not going to want to collapse on Rondo and leave kg, shaq, PP, ray open, but on a lesser team, there would be defenders who could leave their men to help because the players they left simply weren't good enough to demand consistent attention.  So you end up with Rondo either going up against a double team among the trees in the lane or going to the line. Either way it wouldn't lead to nearly as much success as he has with the C's

  So what are you saying, that Rondo would have trouble if he were on a team with D-Leaguers? The big three aren't the only players in the league who can score. On another team the team would have less success, but Rondo would have better stats. In other words he'd be more like the point guards that people prefer to him.

[raynman]

The only quote from D'Antoni i liked was
"Once you pop, you can't stop!" 

[dtrader]

lol what has d'antoni done..

I understand how comments like these ruffle peoples feathers, but saying stuff like this is ridiculous. D'Antoni has had success at EVERY single level of basketball he's participated from player to coach.  It doesn't mske sense to say "he wouldn't be anything without nash" 1. - because he was part of the reason the Suns got nash in the 1st place, and 2.- He's had plenty of success at his other stops.  D'Antoni is proven.  He's also in line with what just about every analyst or commentator has ever said about Rondo.

He didn't say Rondo wasn't good. He didn't say he had a better player, or that his team would win. All he did, was allude to the (IMO) fact, that Rondo is in a more comfortable situation in terms of passing targets, than 99% of the leagues guards.

I for 1 agree with D'Antonis premise (if not his delivery). I don't think Rondo would play half as well with a lesser supporting cast. If he was on a different team, where he was the focus of the defense (without as lethal shooters as PP and Ray), he would be consistently pressured. That would result in less visibility on his passes, and him having to deal with defense on his shots (which simply doesnt exist now).  No team has such high fg% options as the C's so I don't see how it's reasonable to think his assist numbers would remain as high.

  Consistently pressure Rondo and he'll live in the lane. One of the reasons teams lay off of him is because he'd drive by any pg that played him close. That leaves him heading to the basket with that great vision and the defense forced to collapse on him. Hardly a recipe for disaster.

This argument only holds true if he drives past his man, and the other defenders all are guarding players that they cannot afford to leave their men open for a moment to collapse on Rondo.  On Boston, you're probably not going to want to collapse on Rondo and leave kg, shaq, PP, ray open, but on a lesser team, there would be defenders who could leave their men to help because the players they left simply weren't good enough to demand consistent attention.  So you end up with Rondo either going up against a double team among the trees in the lane or going to the line. Either way it wouldn't lead to nearly as much success as he has with the C's

  So what are you saying, that Rondo would have trouble if he were on a team with D-Leaguers? The big three aren't the only players in the league who can score. On another team the team would have less success, but Rondo would have better stats. In other words he'd be more like the point guards that people prefer to him.

Isn't that essentially what D'Antoni said, that Rondo would be in trouble if he were on a lesser team?  The big 3 aren't the only players in the league that score, but Boston IS one of the only teams where a PG is surrounded by 4 players that defenders absolutely do NOT want to leave for any period of time to help.  The 4 players around Rondo are also better finishers than just about any other 4 in the league.  

Obviously if he was on a lesser team, Rondos team wouldn't enjoy as much success, but what D'Antoni is alluding to (and I'm agreeing with), is that Rondos individual production would also fall.  I don't think he'd have better assists, because no other team runs so many sets solely through their PG, AND has as good finishers.  I don't think he'd be as efficient a scorer, because he would actually have to score against pressure defense, since his supporting cast wouldn't be as good (which subsequently creates the spacing he enjoys on his shot and drives).

Basically, it would put Rondo in a situation, where he had to be able to either create his own shot, or drive through traffic, to be effective. If he had the same shooting ability and FT capabilities as the PGs that most people prefer to him, then yes...he'd become almost like them. Unfortunately he doesn't, and that's where I think D'Antonis point lies.

[zimbo]

The only quote from D'Antoni i liked was
"Once you pop, you can't stop!"  

TP. LM*O!

[zerophase]

If Rondo played on Mini i say his points would be up to around 15ppg and his assists would be down to around 8. He said himself that if his team needed him to develop consist scoring and shooting, and relied on it to succeed, this his offense would be farther along then now.

[dtrader]

If Rondo played on Mini i say his points would be up to around 15ppg and his assists would be down to around 8. He said himself that if his team needed him to develop consist scoring and shooting, and relied on it to succeed, this his offense would be farther along then now.

He's been playing basketball his whole life, and his jumpshot and free throws are what they are now. You really think if he was traded to a team that needed him to become a shooter next year, he'd suddenly start knocking down jumpers consistently and hitting his free throws?  If that were true, I think it would be an insult to his current team, that he hasn't put in the work for them.

And if he went to 15/8 with 50% free throws on a losing team, absolutely no one would care about him.  He'd basically be as productive as Johnny Flynn his rookie season with the wolves. Maybe on par with Aaron Brooks, Ty Lawson, and Kyle Lowry in starter minutes.  If that were the case, I think D'Antoni would've made his.

[BballTim]

lol what has d'antoni done..

I understand how comments like these ruffle peoples feathers, but saying stuff like this is ridiculous. D'Antoni has had success at EVERY single level of basketball he's participated from player to coach.  It doesn't mske sense to say "he wouldn't be anything without nash" 1. - because he was part of the reason the Suns got nash in the 1st place, and 2.- He's had plenty of success at his other stops.  D'Antoni is proven.  He's also in line with what just about every analyst or commentator has ever said about Rondo.

He didn't say Rondo wasn't good. He didn't say he had a better player, or that his team would win. All he did, was allude to the (IMO) fact, that Rondo is in a more comfortable situation in terms of passing targets, than 99% of the leagues guards.

I for 1 agree with D'Antonis premise (if not his delivery). I don't think Rondo would play half as well with a lesser supporting cast. If he was on a different team, where he was the focus of the defense (without as lethal shooters as PP and Ray), he would be consistently pressured. That would result in less visibility on his passes, and him having to deal with defense on his shots (which simply doesnt exist now).  No team has such high fg% options as the C's so I don't see how it's reasonable to think his assist numbers would remain as high.

  Consistently pressure Rondo and he'll live in the lane. One of the reasons teams lay off of him is because he'd drive by any pg that played him close. That leaves him heading to the basket with that great vision and the defense forced to collapse on him. Hardly a recipe for disaster.

This argument only holds true if he drives past his man, and the other defenders all are guarding players that they cannot afford to leave their men open for a moment to collapse on Rondo.  On Boston, you're probably not going to want to collapse on Rondo and leave kg, shaq, PP, ray open, but on a lesser team, there would be defenders who could leave their men to help because the players they left simply weren't good enough to demand consistent attention.  So you end up with Rondo either going up against a double team among the trees in the lane or going to the line. Either way it wouldn't lead to nearly as much success as he has with the C's

  So what are you saying, that Rondo would have trouble if he were on a team with D-Leaguers? The big three aren't the only players in the league who can score. On another team the team would have less success, but Rondo would have better stats. In other words he'd be more like the point guards that people prefer to him.

Isn't that essentially what D'Antoni said, that Rondo would be in trouble if he were on a lesser team?  The big 3 aren't the only players in the league that score, but Boston IS one of the only teams where a PG is surrounded by 4 players that defenders absolutely do NOT want to leave for any period of time to help.  The 4 players around Rondo are also better finishers than just about any other 4 in the league.  

Obviously if he was on a lesser team, Rondos team wouldn't enjoy as much success, but what D'Antoni is alluding to (and I'm agreeing with), is that Rondos individual production would also fall.  I don't think he'd have better assists, because no other team runs so many sets solely through their PG, AND has as good finishers.  I don't think he'd be as efficient a scorer, because he would actually have to score against pressure defense, since his supporting cast wouldn't be as good (which subsequently creates the spacing he enjoys on his shot and drives).

Basically, it would put Rondo in a situation, where he had to be able to either create his own shot, or drive through traffic, to be effective. If he had the same shooting ability and FT capabilities as the PGs that most people prefer to him, then yes...he'd become almost like them. Unfortunately he doesn't, and that's where I think D'Antonis point lies.

  Paul shoots 51% from the field and 39% on threes when Rondo's in the game, and 44% from the field and 32% on threes without Rondo. Ray's points and 3 point fg% are down about 15% with Rondo on the bench and his 3 point attempts drop by about 33%. Plenty of players on other teams put up numbers as good as what Paul and Ray do without Rondo. And who's the 4th player that teams absolutely do NOT want to leave for any period of time to help, Glen Davis?

  Rondo's arguably the best in the league at ball-handling, passing, and court vision (as well as defense) and he's very good at driving and finishing. Those skills would be helpful on pretty much every nba team, not just the Celts. Not to mention he'd be on a team that ran more, and we've all seen what he can do in transition.

[dtrader]

BBallTim...

The 4th player could be basically anyone playing center that has a high fg% (Shaq, Perk, JO).  The whole point, is that Rondo is surrounded by 4 players that either demand a double team, or consistent attention. On a lesser team, defenders would be able to collapse on Rondo if he penetrated.  No other team surrounds their PG with as much talent at every position as us.  

Since Rondo's only played significant minutes with the big 3, it's impossible to say how he would be at driving and finishing on a different team. The whole premise of the argument I think D'Antoni would make, is that on another team, he wouldn't have the spacing he does with the C's, and that would limit the effectiveness of his ball-handling, passing, vision, etc.  He'd certainly get to the line a lot more, but for him (and his team), that's usually a negative.  

The whole point, is that playing on the C's capitalizes on the strengths Rondo has, but on a lesser team, it would be the skills that he doesn't have (shooting), that would be emphasized.

[jackson_34]

Good to see Pierce and Rondo not take the bait and refuse to comment on it in the presser.

 

 

[BballTim]

BBallTim...

The 4th player could be basically anyone playing center that has a high fg% (Shaq, Perk, JO).  The whole point, is that Rondo is surrounded by 4 players that either demand a double team, or consistent attention. On a lesser team, defenders would be able to collapse on Rondo if he penetrated.  No other team surrounds their PG with as much talent at every position as us.  

Since Rondo's only played significant minutes with the big 3, it's impossible to say how he would be at driving and finishing on a different team. The whole premise of the argument I think D'Antoni would make, is that on another team, he wouldn't have the spacing he does with the C's, and that would limit the effectiveness of his ball-handling, passing, vision, etc.  He'd certainly get to the line a lot more, but for him (and his team), that's usually a negative.  

The whole point, is that playing on the C's capitalizes on the strengths Rondo has, but on a lesser team, it would be the skills that he doesn't have (shooting), that would be emphasized.

  I understand the point you're making, I just disagree with it. Rondo's great in transition. Putting him on a team like Minny would emphasize that skill more than playing on the Celts does because they run more. He'd look to score more if he were on a lesser team and as we've seen the last 3 years of playoffs he's clearly capable of scoring more. It's not the case that playing on the C's capitalizes on the strengths Rondo has, but on a lesser team, it would be the skills that he doesn't have (shooting), that would be emphasized. It's more that Rondo's on a team that isn't built to utilize his strengths.

[celtics2]

DaAntoni would do better coaching his team than spending half his time looking up at the large screen objecting to calls. Seems cheap shots not only come from Knick Players.

[indeedproceed]

I was talking to my friend who recently became a Buddhist about morality and whether or not people should or shouldn't hold things against other people.

He then told me that he believes only in Karma, that it is an undeniable truth that people who do negative things will also be punished with negativity in their time.

I don't really buy it, but funny coincidence this, eh?

[dixonsupreme]

I'd like to see him coach the 'Wolves.

[aporel#18]

Agreed. Rose lack of decision-making/distribution/creativity skills are the main reason. He create shots for his teammates by attacking from a top pick'n'roll or an iso and forcing the defense to collapse on him. But he's not a floor-general by any means. There's a reason why the Bulls are an ordinary offensive team. Give Deron Williams that supporting cast and the Bulls are a top-5 offense. 

wow, you give Deron that Bulls team and I'm not confident the Celtics can get past them. Deron is huge, D-Rose, not so much.

By the way, I remember watching D'Antoni playing in Milan, and he was a great player, all smarts and guts. I was surprised when I saw his coaching style, but with Steve Nash on board he looked like a great coach.

I can see he's frustrated, but it's not a great thing to say if you are an NBA coach.

I think D'Antoni is a great coach. He's a true believer in his system, so he needs players that fit it.

That playing style is similar to the one he played under Dan Peterson in Milan, very fast paced basketball, contropiede as they say in Italy. Except those Milan teams would almost always use a deadly 1-3-1 zone defense. The Milan teams of that era were pretty good, Meneghin, D'Antoni, Vittorio Gallinari, McAdoo, Boselli, Antoine Carr.... Those finals versus Maccabi Telaviv were really funny to watch. Yeah, D'Antoni was a very intelligent player, especially in the later stage of his career (when they were actually playing a little slower).

wow, they were a heck of a team back then, but they strangled rivals with their zone. Meneghin was terrible to play against, he made Divac look naive and he made all the tricks in the zone. You can ask Real Madrid basketball team also, Meneghin vs. Rullan is something I didn't see because I was too little back then, but everybody remembers Meneghin's teams.

I think D'Antoni as a coach is more likable if you are his opponent, their teams don't get into your head, they don't use all the "dirty" tricks. Yes, his teams master the fastbreak, like those Milan teams, but every team in Europe hated to play them, and every team in the NBA takes advantage of D'Antoni's non defense teams.

TP for sharing those memories

[Redz]

I'd like to see him coach the 'Wolves.

The Knicks and the Wolves compiled the same amount of playoff victories this season.