Box out, please...

[ScoobyDoo]

I don't know if Shaq will come back or not. The mind set of the team should be that "Shaq is not coming back so we need to win without him, period".

This being said, for big men we still have JO, KG, Krstic, Big Baby and Troy Murphy, plus Pierce is a physical guy for his size in the paint and he rebounds the ball very, very well.

Not to the Celtics big man rotation - "you want to win a championship? Try the following:

* Instead of turning around and looking at the basket whenever a shot goes up, try actually putting a body on someone and boxing them out first, then worry about getting the ball after that.

This team's lack of the fundamental skill of putting your backside into someone and your elbows out and actually boxing someone out is so pathetic it's kind of hard to comprehend.

Rebounding has far more to do with boxing out fundamentals and positioning than it does with athleticism.

I can easily box out a 6'4" guy all night and I'm only 5'10". You "box him out, by laying a body on him" and then when you go up for the board you jump back just a little into him so if he tries to go over your back he'll end up on your shoulders and you'll get the call.
     
This team doesn't rebound well because they are despicably lazy and apathetic about fundamentally boxing out AND because they are unwilling to get into a legit fist fight under the boards. Perkins used to provide that for us, Shaq did it equally well.

Last night? We're getting tossed around by Bill Walker for God's sake...can anyone tell me why Big Baby didn't put Bill Walker into the second row last night/

JO, KG, Krstic and Big baby is as big a front line as any in the league, including the Lakers.

However, if we lose this year it will because these guys, this team, has a fundamental lack of desire to box people out and hold position for boards.

We should be dominating the knicks on the boards - instead Bill Walker looks like Charles Oakely out there.

Pathetic.

If these guys lose because of this, I will consider their exit from the playoffs very well earned by each every one of the big men on our team.

JO / Krstic
KG / Big Baby
Pierce/ Jeff Green

As good a size, strength and length as any team in the league - "without Shaq".

Not to Big Three -
Want a championship? Want a legacy? Go get in a fist fight under the boards and I'll show you #18. Want to keep putting up an apathetic effort on the glass every night? I'll show you a second round exit...

Grow a set...take off the dresses     

[hpantazo]

TP, well said. You would think our front line last night consisted of 4 Mikki Moore clones for crying out loud. Unacceptable, especially against the players NY had out there. Our guards have to help out more though, like Rondo did in game 1.

[ScoobyDoo]

Thanks and agreed, it's really pathetic, couple tips:

* Big Baby, stop being a politician, make some enemies every night
* Next time Bill Walker shoves one of our guys around - make sure the next time he's airborne that he lands on his back.
* When the ball goes up - don't even think about the ball, just find whoever is closest to you and box them out. I think they'll be amazed at how many rebounds that will produce.
* PUT A BODY ON SOMEONE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!!!!!
* Want a ring? Fight for it.

Even without Shaq we have way more size and strength than the Knicks

We should be beating this knicks team by ten-twenty points a night, easy.

It's pathetic because they are mentally choosing to give it away.

How do they choose not to give it away? B-O-X - O-U-T

[the_Bird]

* Next time Bill Walker shoves one of our guys around - make sure the next time he's airborne that he lands on his back.

That Billy Walker hit on Ray Allen was just DIRTY.  He wasn't trying to block him out; he lowered his shoulder into him like he was Ronnie Lott.  Cheap shot.  You can't do anything STUPID...  but someone on the C's needs to let Billy know that he can't get away with that.  Otherwise, Ray and C's just got punked.

[ScoobyDoo]

Yes, TP.

Here's the thing, Doc says, we don't play that way, we just run our stuff, we don't get into retaliating.

I say, "screw you Doc". If I'm a player out there and one of my guys takes a shot like that - he's ( Walker's) going down next time down the court, period. Otherwise, they'll do it to you all night.

But we play like chics.

Big Baby is the guy - in the absence of Perkins / Shaq - Big Baby should take it upon himself to play the sheriff role. But Big Baby is a big sweetheart, he's a politician out there, shaking hands, making sure everyone's happy and getting along. Meanwhile Bill Walker's nailing people.

Put Bill Walker's head on Big Baby's body? No one, and I mean "no one" would want to be taking shots at us because they would know what's coming back.

Put a body on people, get physical and draw the line in the sand. Don't be afraid to make some enemies out there.

Our big men need to step up and take control of the paint -the biggest shame is that they are as big and long as any big man rotation in the league - but they play like chics.

Grow a set guys an take control of the paint, act like ti means something - or you'll be done with this season before you know it.

[hpantazo]

Yes, TP.

Here's the thing, Doc says, we don't play that way, we just run our stuff, we don't get into retaliating.

I say, "screw you Doc". If I'm a player out there and one of my guys takes a shot like that - he's ( Walker's) going down next time down the court, period. Otherwise, they'll do it to you all night.

But we play like chics.

Big Baby is the guy - in the absence of Perkins / Shaq - Big Baby should take it upon himself to play the sheriff role. But Big Baby is a big sweetheart, he's a politician out there, shaking hands, making sure everyone's happy and getting along. Meanwhile Bill Walker's nailing people.

Put Bill Walker's head on Big Baby's body? No one, and I mean "no one" would want to be taking shots at us because they would know what's coming back.

Put a body on people, get physical and draw the line in the sand. Don't be afraid to make some enemies out there.

Our big men need to step up and take control of the paint -the biggest shame is that they are as big and long as any big man rotation in the league - but they play like chics.

Grow a set guys an take control of the paint, act like ti means something - or you'll be done with this season before you know it.

Kristic is the guy to do this, he is expendable if/when he gets suspended, and he has a great resume of being an enforcer in international play, chair shots and all

[LooseCannon]

This team doesn't rebound well because they are despicably lazy and apathetic about fundamentally boxing out AND because they are unwilling to get into a legit fist fight under the boards. Perkins used to provide that for us, Shaq did it equally well.

I care more about the team's willingness to get into a legit fist fight than I care about boxing out.

[KungPoweChicken]

I honestly don't even think boxing out is the Celtics problem. Going after the rebound is their problem. No one chases after the ball. Yeah, boxing out is important to an extent, especially with bigs. But the majority of the rebounds are had with hustle, anticipation, and quickness after a shot is taken--all qualities the Celtics seem to lack. Boxing out can be a problem with this team, but I think the bigger problem is what I mentioned.

[nyceltsfan]

I'm actually curious - Does anyone know league statistics for % of offensive rebounds ever since the league allowed zone defenses?  I feel like I see it much more now than say, 15-20 years ago.  Could it be because when defending someone one-on-one, the defender should be between his man and the basket and that would make boxing out a lot easier?  In a zone defense, if the offense loads up on one side, it could be a little harder to box out and secure the defensive rebound.

I'm not blaming this all for the Celtics' struggles on the glass, but considering their zone defense is a well-oiled machine, maybe they have less focus on finding an offensive player on the strong side to box out...

[ScoobyDoo]

I don't disagree with either statements Kungpowe and LooseCanon, to me?

1. Being willing to get a in a fist fight - get your hands dirty and put a line in the sand
2. Hustle, desire, getting after the boards
3. Boxing out...

All different vegetables in the same soup -they all go hand in hand together and are all the same "thing" we are lacking...

Good points.

[greenpride32]

In fairness to the C's last night there was an abnormally high number of long rebounds that are always up for grabs.
But the reality is this team has not been good at rebounding during the whole Big 3 era.  It hurts when KG and BBD take more jumpshots than working the paint.  Those are your two bigs that close out games and they don't patrol the paint 100% of the time like other bigs do.

[ScoobyDoo]

Good point as well Nyceltsfan and I think there is some truth in what you are saying.

However, most teams play relatively the same D with alot of zoning, hedging and switching, but many are not nearly as pathetic on the glass as we are...  

[Jon]

Yes.  And catch the darn ball.  I can't even count how many times they tried that weak "tip it to yourself" crap. 

[ScoobyDoo]

Speaking of "catching the ball"...has anyone noticed how many times everyone on the team seems to be like fumbling the ball on so many passes?

It seems like they struggle to catch passess from each other and then they are tentative once they finally do secure the ball.

It's been really odd to watch - it's like they're just out of synch.

[celts55]

I have to agree, I thought the Celtics were suposed to be the tough guys.
They talk a lot of crap but puch comes to shove, they're the ones getting shoved around. I think they need Perk if for no other reason. KG talks tough, but doesn't want to back it up.
I know i'm old school, but someone should have taken Walker down next time he was anywhere near going to the hoop. You can't just let someone do that to Ray.
As for boxing out. They don't and for some reason Baby is under the back board half the time. How can you get a rebound when you're under the back board? Terrible.