Why Was Jeff Green Brought In Again?

[Marcus13]

One of my main points of this thread though, is that he really isn't doing what he was brought in to do.

He was supposed to be here so that Ray and Paul could get some rest.  That isn't happening.  At all.

We're playing him a majority of his minutes at the 4 - Paul and Ray are killing themselves.

I'm not trying to argue about his talent.  I just don't understand the point of trading your starting 5 for a backup 4 (when BBD, our "6th man" is a 4)

[Jon]

While I don't like how Green has played, let's keep a few things in mind:

-Finding shots on this team is tough.  There are so many talented guys that it's little wonder Jeff Green is tentative to shoot the ball.  Quite frankly, you have to be a little cocky (or stupid, or aloof) like Baby to really justify shooting it when you're playing with 4 All Stars.  

-This is a lot on Doc.  He essentially has Jeff Green come in and stand on the weakside and look to spot up shots.  Exactly how is he supposed to assert himself when his role in the play is to hit the weakside jumper?  

I really think that Doc has to make the decision to run a ton of plays for Green when he's in the game.  I'd do this for several reason:

-It lets the starters playing with him have "easy" minutes as they can stand on the weakside, rather than Green.

-It could get Jeff Green going.  

-It will make teams respect him.  


Also, I don't think this is the series that Danny had him in mind for as much as next series, where it's very likely that Ray and/or Paul could be limited to less than 30 mpg due to foul trouble.  Green may indeed prove his worth then.  

[Chris]

One of my main points of this thread though, is that he really isn't doing what he was brought in to do.

He was supposed to be here so that Ray and Paul could get some rest.  That isn't happening.  At all.

We're playing him a majority of his minutes at the 4 - Paul and Ray are killing themselves.

I'm not trying to argue about his talent.  I just don't understand the point of trading your starting 5 for a backup 4 (when BBD, our "6th man" is a 4)

Right, but I would wait until next round before getting too worried about this.  While Green was brought in as a wing, against the Knicks second unit, the PF really is a wing.  They really can't expect Big Baby, or Krstic, or JO, or even Perk to cover Shawne Williams and Bill Walker.  

This is just a matchup issue in this series, and even if it wasn't Green, we would likely be seeing a wing playing a lot of minutes at the PF spot against this team.

There were also stretches where he was forced to play minutes at the PF spot, because of injuries to the big men.  However, when they have had 4 big men healthy Doc has tried to keep Green on the wing, and has said that is where he is most effective.  

Currently, they have enough big men, but Green is just a better matchup at that position against this team.  

[Michael Anthony]

Other than Odom on the Lakers, bench players are just not that good on any of the top teams.

DeJuan Blair, Jarret Jack, Jason Terry, Batum, Raymond Felton, Thaddeus Young, Jamal Crawford...they are all bench players (on playoff teams) who have given their teams more than what Jeff Green has given us.

Jeff Green is the most talented of all the players that I have listed but he hasn't been all that impressive for us. He is certainly capable of producing a lot more than he has thus far. What's preventing him? I have no idea.

Keep in mind that those guys get rotated in with starters. Doc has this wierd penchant for putting ALL of our subs in at the same time. Did you see the West-Ray-Green-Davis-Krstic lineup last night? The one that gave up a 10-0 run? The one where the offense was running through Glen Davis? Terrible.

Put Green out there with Rondo-Ray-Garnett-O'Neal and he shines. Put him out there with any combination of our four starters and he will produce. He is not a guy that does a lot with the ball one-on-one, so put him out there with the scrubs, and he looks bad.

[BudweiserCeltic]

He has a poor night yesterday, but more than anything I'm disappointed in how Doc is using him.

He's been active defensively, which is very good to see. Would like him to go harder rebounding. I saw a mixed bag in that department yesterday. On one play I see him just standing around watching the ball go behind him, and then in the next play I see him battling hard after the ball. So would like to see more consistency there.

I think the long arms more than anything of the Knicks are really bothering him around the basket, and playing him at the 4 is not making it any easier. He had some good opportunities though in the 1st half though which he simply missed.

I think he got a bit frustrated yesterday also with Melo drawing fouls on him, quite a tough cover so far, but he's done well enough I think.

[screwedupmaniac]

"Why was Jeff Green Brought In Again?"

1. To back up Pierce

2. To package with Rondo, Baby, and Cleveland's draft pick in a trade for CP3 in the offseason  

Seriously, I see the merit in Ainge's move...we all expected Jeff Green to score 15 points and grab rebounds here just like he did in OKC. Unfortunately, he doesn't seem to get our system...either that, or Doc doesn't seem to get Jeff Green's game and would rather go with what he knows (Baby, Pierce, and Ray). Or, perhaps Jeff Green is too intimidated by our star-studded team of Hall-of-Famers, and feels the need to defer to the established superstars on the team...

All I know is that when the trade first happened, it seemed on paper that we got the better player in the deal, and finally got the long-time coveted backup for Paul Pierce. It just isn't working out the way that we (and I'm sure Ainge) hoped it would.

[cman88]

just like nate robinson last year, im sure Jeff Green will have his moment where he explodes and wins us a playoff game...the guy certainly has the talent to be a 6th man.

honestly, if our bench is going to rely on jumpers, id rather it run through Jeff Green who is more reliable than baby(who should operate more in the low post)

[jambr380]

Why was Green brought in?  To be a versitile 2-position bench player and he has been that, a pretty good bench player.  Other than Odom on the Lakers, bench players are just not that good on any of the top teams.

And for people who are declaring, oh we should have kept Perk and just gotten Corey Brewer or whoever.  I think that Danny probably did try to get someone without trading Perk but couldn't.  I think the get something for Perk aspect was in play but if Danny could have traded Nate for Brewer or something like that, I think he would have.

Green, Krstic, and a likely lottery pick for Perk and Nate; OKC gave up a lot and took back a wasted contract to get a wounded Perk.  No, I still would not un-do this trade.  Maybe I keep Erden over Murphy but I am still good with the value we got for this trade and I continue to believe that Perk is not the reason we are barely beating the Knicks.

+1

we cant rebound the ball... perk would help a lot with that and jeff has produced very little. i think this trade has had a major impact on this series. doc should of played wafer more during the regular season. he's got talent just not experience. and not to mention DA shook up the chemistry completely with this trade. don't downplay the psychology of the trade. perk was a comrade and a brother

If these guys cant get over losing their BFF then they don't belong in the NBA.

I worked for Walgreens for 2 years at the same location. I was then transferred to another. I left behind coworkers that I enjoyed working with. I did my job at the new store, I didn't let my performance slide because I missed my former coworkers.

This reasoning for why the trade was bad is not very sound imo.

working at a walgreens is no where near the same caliber as playing a team oriented sport at the high level these athletes do. idk if you play basketball but when you play with a group of guys that you have been for a while you establish a certain amount of trust in one another. you also know their game as much as you do of your own. i work at five guys and transferred to one by my college and my performance has not changed as well. but shaking a fry basket with new people is completely different than trying to get the ball in the basket. not trying to be rude but your analogy is a loose one.

Eh, I know what you are saying, but I don't know about this argument. Look at a team like the Nuggets, who basically lost everything, but then performed considerably better after losing its two best players.

As for Perk, I sure do miss the guy and would certainly have him back...but in a back up role to JO. O'Neal has so many more dimensions to his game than Perk. He isn't the pick setter or large person that Perk is, but he has played extremely well and, frankly, needs more minutes.

[blackberry33]

While I don't like how Green has played, let's keep a few things in mind:

-Finding shots on this team is tough.  There are so many talented guys that it's little wonder Jeff Green is tentative to shoot the ball.  Quite frankly, you have to be a little cocky (or stupid, or aloof) like Baby to really justify shooting it when you're playing with 4 All Stars.  

-This is a lot on Doc.  He essentially has Jeff Green come in and stand on the weakside and look to spot up shots.  Exactly how is he supposed to assert himself when his role in the play is to hit the weakside jumper?  

I really think that Doc has to make the decision to run a ton of plays for Green when he's in the game.  I'd do this for several reason:

-It lets the starters playing with him have "easy" minutes as they can stand on the weakside, rather than Green.

-It could get Jeff Green going.  

-It will make teams respect him.  


Also, I don't think this is the series that Danny had him in mind for as much as next series, where it's very likely that Ray and/or Paul could be limited to less than 30 mpg due to foul trouble.  Green may indeed prove his worth then.  

tp for ya

[Vermont Green]

Other than Odom on the Lakers, bench players are just not that good on any of the top teams.

DeJuan Blair, Jarret Jack, Jason Terry, Batum, Raymond Felton, Thaddeus Young, Jamal Crawford...they are all bench players (on playoff teams) who have given their teams more than what Jeff Green has given us.

Jeff Green is the most talented of all the players that I have listed but he hasn't been all that impressive for us. He is certainly capable of producing a lot more than he has thus far. What's preventing him? I have no idea.

And which one of these are going to back-up Pierce?  Batum for sure, maybe Young.  So we offer Perk and Nate for Batum, a back up center, and lottery pick?   I would be in for that trade but I don't see it happening.  Plus we would still be in trouble as a team because of the emotional impact of trading Perk, according to many here (although not Tommy H).

I don't disagree that he lacks that spark of intensity or fire or whatever that he needs to raise his level of production. Now in the playoffs he has even a little more of the deer in the headlights syndrome.  Even though I would love to get more out of him, he is still a very good bench option.

[TradeProposalDude]

If you ask me, the comparison to Odom is valid, in terms of his role with the Lakers and how Ainge portrayed Green helping out this team. A versatile guy coming off the bench to provide scoring punch and rebounding. Green has looked best in a Celtics uniform on the fast break. He has completed a few impressive alley oops and for a guy his size, has terrific athleticism. The problem with Boston is that they primarily function in the halfcourt, even though they should be running more. Look how well Rondo played in the opening minutes of last night's game as he was able to use his speed to his advantage. Green can function in that sort of offense; he unfortunately doesn't appear to be getting a real opportunity to play the style of game that suits him the best. I think Doc needs to play Rondo and Green together more because neither West nor Arroyo (or any Celtics guard for that matter) can run with Green on the 2nd unit. I've also found, although admittedly I have no stats to back this claim up, that Green's rebounding surges in the uptempo game. I just remember that late season game against the Wizards on the road where Green was all over the place.

Unless the Celtics find a way to alter their offensive schemes a little to make Green adapt, I think Green's a lost case here. He's not a bad basketball player at all. The way Doc wants to run this team on the offensive end clashes with the type of game in which Green flourishes.

[dlpin]

Eh, I know what you are saying, but I don't know about this argument. Look at a team like the Nuggets, who basically lost everything, but then performed considerably better after losing its two best players.

As for Perk, I sure do miss the guy and would certainly have him back...but in a back up role to JO. O'Neal has so many more dimensions to his game than Perk. He isn't the pick setter or large person that Perk is, but he has played extremely well and, frankly, needs more minutes.

But was that because of chemistry? Or because the players Denver got were good in their own right and fit with what George Karl wants to do much better?

I think people completely overestimate the impact of chemistry. Especially in a situation where the player we are missing didn't practice, play or travel with the team for most of the season.

[Vermont Green]

"Why was Jeff Green Brought In Again?"

1. To back up Pierce

2. To package with Rondo, Baby, and Cleveland's draft pick in a trade for CP3 in the offseason  

Danny Ainge is definitely into "assets" and he got assets back for Perk.  Green is decent asset and the draft pick may well be used as a trade asset or just result in a good young player someday.  Plus don't forget that we also got rid of $4.5M in Nate's 2011-12 salary.  In a way, getting rid of negative asset is as good as getting an asset.

I know you can make the argument that this was not the time or place to make a trade for assets but I believe DA felt like wow, I get these assest and with SO and JO, I can cover for the loss of Perk too.  I still like the trade but even though I am not buying the "Perk was our team identity" I understand why some well intentioned but misguided fans (  ) don't like the trade.

[barefacedmonk]

Other than Odom on the Lakers, bench players are just not that good on any of the top teams.

DeJuan Blair, Jarret Jack, Jason Terry, Batum, Raymond Felton, Thaddeus Young, Jamal Crawford...they are all bench players (on playoff teams) who have given their teams more than what Jeff Green has given us.

Jeff Green is the most talented of all the players that I have listed but he hasn't been all that impressive for us. He is certainly capable of producing a lot more than he has thus far. What's preventing him? I have no idea.

And which one of these are going to back-up Pierce?

You didn't ask for which player could back up PP. You stated that other than Odom there aren't bench players that are  good. I was replying to that.

[Neurotic Guy]

Addressing Chemistry: 
Jermaine O'Neal came back on March 31 -- only 3 weeks ago!!
He played his first 5 games back at an average of 15 minutes per game and started only 3 of those games. Which means JO has played minimally with the other starters since he returned. Remember, the Big 4 didn't play the last 2 regular season games.

In the first 2 games of the playoffs JO showed up as a palpable defensive presence.  I'll go as far to say that he was as much a presence as Perk would have been, and is clearly a far better talent on the offensive end.  Only revisionist history would tell us that Perk rebounds any better or sets picks better. 

In addition, I'd say he seems to blend well with the starters and knows his role.  It appears the potential for excellent chemistry is strong.  They just need a little more time on the court together.  JO also seems highly motivated and has shown himself to be a bit feisty and chippy -- no scowl, but he has shown plenty of emotion.

I am now amending my prior belief that this team needs Shaq. I now think that either they need Shaq back to give them 15 minutes OR they need JO to provide close to 30 per game (at the quality he's shown to be capable of in games 1 and 2).  If either of those occur, it will bode well for the C's.